Democracy 4

Democracy 4

Economic Intervention Policies and Systems
31 Comments
grandstratplayer  [author] 31 Jul @ 12:48pm 
Thank you for your kind words. The reason there is no svg icons is simply that until the 1.0 'final' product, I am allowing myself to scrap anything and change anything. I didn't want to create a bunch of icons for things that may or may not be in the final version. However, I do see your point in that the amount of new things probably needs at least some placeholder to even know whats happening visually. So I will add those, but thank you for the offer!
CoffeeDetroit 28 Jul @ 4:48am 
@grandstratplayer I like this mod so much although no icons makes it hard. Do you want me to provide some? Give me a list of all that is needed and I can supply you a folder of svgs.
grandstratplayer  [author] 21 May @ 3:17pm 
It's possible that the Treaty policy is what would be doing that. After seeing your comment I did some testing on Japan, and I was unable to recreate it. However, I suspect that policy is the one that could be doing it, since it directly lowers global interest rates which I believe has an influence in how the game calculates the Debt Crisis situation. I have added it to the list for modification for the next update. Thank you for letting me know.
Tundra C. 20 May @ 9:02pm 
yes, I have that treaty.
grandstratplayer  [author] 20 May @ 9:53am 
Did you use the International Finance Treaty policy in your Japan game?
grandstratplayer  [author] 20 May @ 9:52am 
For DLC's I have no recommendations, the mod's additions are not reliant on any of the DLC additions so it should run just fine with or without them.
Tundra C. 20 May @ 1:42am 
Uh... I played as Japan and despite getting my income from government borrowing and most of my deficit is due to debt interest, the game somehow after a few turns thought i got rid of the debt crisis. and yes this is the only mod i used.
CelestialSword21 29 Apr @ 9:25am 
What about DLC's? would you recommend to use them all while running the mod?
grandstratplayer  [author] 9 Mar @ 9:58am 
It is meant to be its own standalone thing, so I can not vouch for its ability to play nice with other mods. In my testing, I find that there is usually some real problems with how the sim values interact since a bunch of the big mods also create their own sim values.
CelestialSword21 6 Mar @ 4:09pm 
Would you recommend to use any other mods with this one or would you recommend to use it standalone.
Gaurang38 23 Jan @ 3:48pm 
Great set of policies... svg icons are missing though!
Cylun 21 Jan @ 2:10pm 
One more suggestion regarding the food prices. The issue is that subsidies have inherent incentivization and proportionality issues. Just use a negative food tax as a policy option. Which would also require a food waste metric, with food banks as another policy. The negative food tax would be a reverse flat sales tax mechanism, meaning instead of harming the poor the most, it would benefit the poor the most, less the middle income group, while the impact on the wealthy would be close to 0.
Cylun 21 Jan @ 2:01pm 
Here are some issues I noticed. I think certain aspects need clearer definitions.

Bank Liquidity - what's the endpoint. Are banks bloated if they have a lot of of obligatory reserves? No, because they can't spend it. It's just a security, so it's not really liquidity either. So I would change the liquidity increase from the bank reserve requirements. If anything, their actual liquidity is reduced because their existing spending potential is reduced in favor of securities/stability.

I also don't get the idea behind business and consumer spending increasing bank liquidity. Their spending remains in circulation. It's monetary flow - another indicator worth modeling. But banks don't receive it.
Cylun 21 Jan @ 2:01pm 
What would actually be worth modeling is a saving-spending ratio for different demographics, such as different wealth groups and company sizes. If they have an income surplus, they save money, which improves bank liquidity proportionally by group. That can develop into an issue if companies don't spend either. Which can be attributed to a lack of innovation or bureaucracy and other barriers. We currently have this issue in Germany. Companies try to save, the state tries to save, so the poor have to spend over budget, which means they lose wealth or go bankcrupt. It can also be the opposite in that demand stagnates because the market is oversaturated, due to lack of innovation, which means that consumers don't spend enough because there's nothing to buy - groceries excluded. But they invest it instead, which should normally boost innovation, unless there's a risk averse business climate (that's also common in Europe) or a lack of foundational research.
Cylun 21 Jan @ 2:01pm 
Bankcrupty laws and stats would also be interesting to model. Homelessness as well. And the economic infrastructure and scalability, which then intersects with demand-spending.

More important downstream effects from these metrics are wealth inequality (proportionality of the three different wealth groups' savings, accumulated from savings ratios) - centralization of power - democracy.

These are so many metrics if done properly. And you're supposed to model all this in a game that measures GDP in a percentage ratio. I mean, if you would think of it as GDP PPP, it would be more uniform, but this game doesn't even put it into relation to other country's GDP, yet use a percentage scale. I don't know if that can even be modded, to make it a relative GDP PPP.
grandstratplayer  [author] 8 Jan @ 5:32pm 
The Food Price Slump is definitely an aspect that I have been tinkering with a bunch since I added it. The latest update as of early January of 2025 does some adjustments that should make it easier to get rid of the situation. I am planning some rework during the V 0.6 changes, that should make it a notable problem, but one that can be fixed. Unlike what appears to happen where it is a permanent crises that no matter what one does, refuses to go away.
DonCaballo 22 Nov, 2024 @ 4:39pm 
Gotta say, the "raise food price" is a very hard objective. Could it be that the "food price floor" policy is not enough "floor" to deal with it in a single quarter? For some countries with natural international trade routes its almost impossible, like Canada. Can this be fixed or do you think its ok?
FrenchDonut22 22 Nov, 2024 @ 12:46am 
great ideas
Queen Victoria's Top Guy 19 Nov, 2024 @ 10:13am 
Yeah I played last night and struggled to raise food prices since Industrial Economics and another mod I use depend on you having rather high international trade and a healthy use of subsidies. I enjoy his mod a lot and I've been itching for something of similar quality that covers other economic areas like taxes and banking and such. Really like the idea of breaking trade down into imports and exports and domestic trade as you did, I feel like that could play well into helping determine the trade balance sim from VF's mod but I can't just ask you to force your mod to work with my specific favorites.
grandstratplayer  [author] 19 Nov, 2024 @ 10:05am 
I did some testing, I have found that they can work together. However, it didn't mesh well because the mods cover some similar areas that the calculations were kind of warped and the policies didn't play nice with each other. I noticed in my test run, Food Price was forced at zero even with enacting things like the Food Price Floors.
Queen Victoria's Top Guy 18 Nov, 2024 @ 8:25pm 
Would this generally play nice with VF's Industrial Economics? It'd be neat to be able to use both without some really janky disconnect.
grandstratplayer  [author] 3 Oct, 2024 @ 3:25pm 
As far as I can tell, the mod tools are essentially the same as when released except the in game mod manager/editor, that was added later. To answer your question, it is kind of a mix of simple and workaround variables. I agree that the economic measurements in the base game are, perhaps necessary for a balanced playable game of this sort, 'simplistic' of mainly GDP, Inflation, Unemployment, some specific private or public sectors, that sort of thing. I also felt that the base game had these broad stroke policies that did not reflect the more subtle ways a national economy can function and is influenced by public action. So I have created new variables that try to expand on the existing system, if only because a complete restructuring of the entire economic system in game would be beyond my current capabilities and probably that of the editor.
Cylun 3 Oct, 2024 @ 8:15am 
When this game released, I tried to create a mod that implements MMT, since the game's economics are completely unrealistic and counterintuitive. I tried to start with simple measures like money volume, flow rate, inflation, government spending as an independent function from state bonds, dynamic state bonds as a measure to improve bank and market stability, etc. But the dev's function definitions were limited to a specific syntax with a limited number of variables. This just annoyed me and I gave up on this project. Which makes me wonder now, have they improved the moddability or did you just try to keep it simple, or work around with intermediary and irrelevant metrics?
Tundra C. 4 Sep, 2024 @ 6:54am 
National Recovery Administration?
R3bel VVizard VVeed 31 Aug, 2024 @ 12:27pm 
its not the National Rifle Association lol
Siren System 29 Aug, 2024 @ 7:25pm 
Ah, the NRA. Also known as the best way to kill a bunch of people and make it seem like it's not your fault.
grandstratplayer  [author] 20 Aug, 2024 @ 7:39pm 
Thank you for bringing that issue to my attention. Next update I will strengthen those policies to help mitigate that. How the Food Price Slump situation is created is mostly driven by the Food Price. There are some other stats that affect the situation and can help create it or not, but the main driver is Food Price. In the testing I did for the situation, I found that things such as increased Agriculture Sectors and maximum Agriculture Subsidies created that period of ultra-low food prices that create the Slump. So things like reducing your subsides or other such policies that affect Food Price would help with the situation.
FishRaposo 18 Aug, 2024 @ 10:16pm 
How are you meant to deal with the food price situation? Even if you set the food price floors and the insurance to max you still barely make a dent on it.
FishRaposo 28 Jul, 2024 @ 7:08pm 
Just letting you know that this conflicts with the "Mr's Expansion Redux" mod
grandstratplayer  [author] 1 Jun, 2024 @ 1:51pm 
Yeah, the idea is that it is a permanent agency whose goal is tax enforcement, with the potential to gain more in income with a better budget from increased enforcement against tax evasion and the like. Next update I will change the description to better convey that idea.
DonCaballo 31 May, 2024 @ 11:46am 
Tax Service spending? Is it a tax police like the american IRS? Because otherwise I can't imagine what it is.