@Dr. Mikhail |VIP-S|🐧
ID tags on strangely only the right-hand buttons randomly got deleted, maybe a bug related to the copy-paste from older sub.

Permission tags on the medbay doors lock Medics out...
I think they are backwards on the Daima and lock Medics in.
You may want to double check all your secure tags.

Maybe split into two separate subs? A 'stripped down' variant as tier 1, making compromises for the benefit of reduced cost?

More spontaneous ramblings about game balance... I completely forgot that the Orca and the Camel are 9.0k & 9.9k tier-1 submarines, so now I am even more confused as to what exactly to class some of these "1 and a half" tier submarines as.

sure, added a 2nd vent so it should be able to support more characters standing in the armory closet.

so, can we get a vent in armory? my character almost suffocated while afk in it.

Does the toggle in the UI for mineral scanner appear?

As far as I know mineral scanners work still, however since minerals don't spawn on the walls of the map anymore (only in caves, or in abyss rock 'islands') - its incredibly rare to ever see minerals on the ship's sonar... Honestly the upgrade is kind of less useful as a result ever since the random mineral spawns were moved, and handheld sonars come with mineral scanners already by-default so it's kinda obsolete...

@Videogames
Hello, my friends and I really liked this Tier 1.5 submarine. However, we have a question: does the mineral scanner actually work on it or not? We've installed the upgrade, but it feels like the scanner isn't functioning. (I wasn't controlling the sub as the captain, just as an assistant — we didn't have a captain with us.)

Honestly the update that added tiers really caused more problems than it solved. (Tier-3 just replaced 'Deep Diver' class with the same issue all over again.)

At least for my submarines, you can kind of just take "Tier" as a general suggestion - the more clear indicator of submarine capability & progression is mostly going to be the price first and foremost. I kind of purposely put alot of my ~15k-20k in Tier-2 instead of Tier-3 so particularly frugal crews can pick them up slightly earlier, and take advantage of the mechanic 'refit' perk if they want to keep it through the rest of the campaign, since I know alot of crews like to stick with one submarine after they switch from a Tier-1.

Another kind of balancing problem is crew size, since I want to at least give some options for slightly larger than usual tier-1 and tier-2 subs so larger crews have something to use that isn't just cramming everybody into a Barsuk. So yeah you can kind of consider the >10k submarines as being more like a "tier 1.5".

After next sub releases, you can expect probably some more "traditional" <9k starter subs. I might also try to make a set of 'themed' progression subs at some point.

Its possible it's a mod thing, although I'm not sure why bots would have trouble taking items out of the deconstructor with said mods as they seem to be able to put items in the deconstructor & start the deconstructor just fine. So that is odd.

With the added clarification, I get what you mean about bots slamming the doors on eachother yeah. Bots manually closing doors behind them is a vanilla behavior and, yes, they absolutely will slam the door in your face if you happen to be walking behind them. As for bots standing in the doorway however, that isn't fixable with node changes as the cause is just bots interacting with items (such as junction boxes) that are too close to the door so they stop in the doorway. If bots just stood in front of the item they're using instead of stopping the moment they are in the item's radius it wouldn't happen. Doors don't cause any damage though so it's really more of a minor inconvenience delay when using a bot engineer.

and just a TL;DR that I love the aesthetics of this, it fits into the game really well lore-wise as like your average low-mid end corporate tug

>Discharge coils aren't "hardpointable", but I would agree. I mainly just thought of their inclusion as a method for allowing the submarine to start with fewer coilguns & a less combat focused playstyle.

Not a ding! I love this sub. It feels borderline between the tiers but is grungy enough that it feels like a 1. Maybe two versions, a $15k top-of-the-line Tier 1 without the coils and a $17.5k bottom-of-the-segment Tier 2?

That's fair. I actually forgot you have to be running Better AI for the bots to even access the deconstructor in the first place and there could be conflicts. From the handful of subs that I've had this issue with it appears to be the deconstructor being placed at least partially on a "soft" floor (scaffold) but if it works for you that might just be my modlist.

The AI constantly banging their heads off doors appears to be a result of having a larger than recommended crew, but I think the navmaps could still use tweaking. I had 8 or 9 crew with 4 set to storing objects and when there was a lot to move they were constantly following each other through doors and getting smashed in the head when the door closed prematurely.

I'm not able to reproduce the AI issue, bots are able to open doors fine for me as well as carry out deconstruction orders.

The fabricator has a a small linked locker 'in front of' it that can be used for material buffer. The other 4 large 'shelves' are not linked due to a performance related fabricator bug in multiplayer campaign. ( Just slap a stack of common use materials in the fabricator, and use the secondary shelves mostly for storage & reserve materials. )

Discharge coils aren't "hardpointable", but I would agree. I mainly just thought of their inclusion as a method for allowing the submarine to start with fewer coilguns & a less combat focused playstyle.

Also, while it does have an unwieldy design, I think this is might be pushing capabilities for Tier 1. (Also, while common area bunks are cramped as advertised, there's two empty window observation rooms, the break room is alright, the bridge is spacious). It is expensive at $15,000 but feels a little OP so fully equipped-- maybe the discharge coils should be a paid upgrade?

This is already one of my favorite ships, but it badly needs a rework of whatever logic the NPCs are using to move around the sub. They are constantly crashing their heads into doors, stumbling, etc. and can't use the deconstructor (perhaps because their navigation gets confused by it being half over a ledge)?

Also, the fabricator isn't linked to the other metal shelves next to it, so it's inconvenient to construct things sometimes.

+vote up for T1 ships
Maybe something from X-universe? X3, X4, maybe X2 even. Or solo ships, for 1-2, 3 persons capped

Brilliant ships some of the best I've seen! It's refreshing to see more Tier 1 ships being produced.

after testing it would be nice to have a smaller version of this sub and maybe a mini drone for sup or a mini shuttle for cave diving Single player camp

since you asked for suggestions, how about a sub with less guns, say 2 small ones and a modified one on the front, it can be a double coil gun with increased fire rate that fires both shots at the same time and is tied into more than one ammo socket so it can shoot continuously?

While fixing a different unrelated issue, I did try to modify the dampening system again. Which might help with control issues at absurdly-high helm skill and/or tinkerer perk.

@HAYA Unfortunately not, they never made it so the automatic control AI accounts for speed differences like engine upgrades & Helm skill.

hey man, any way to fix the engine wobble/overshoot when trying to maintain position, using meaningful upgrades?
i'm pretty sure upgrading the engine to the max messes it up

I think a drone carrier would be cool

Add a toilet/bathroom bro, feel free to take from one of my subs or any decorations you find interesting.

Because if I made ALL the tier-2 submarines only cost 15,000mk, or all of the tier-1 submarines cost 9,000mk ( which is around the average for those tiers ) regardless of their unique features, they'd be way too underpriced.

This submarine, the 'Revuk' for example. Is basically almost identical on-paper to the "R-29 big rig" minus the large flak cannon. So despite being a small tier-1 submarine, it costs 15,000mk because in terms of it's functionality it's more like an 'R-29' or 'Orca 2'.

Plus there is the fact that later tier-3 subs go far outside the gamut of regular vanilla subs, costing more than 30,000mk. So making them the same price as a Kastrull wouldn't make much sense when they surpass the Kastrull quite alot in terms of progression.

@アウリ
Yea, submarine price and size are sort of irrespective of 'tier'. Another reason for this (besides balancing) is that in Vanilla there are not alot of "large tier-2 submarines" or "small tier-3 submarines", which is why there are some subs like the 'Vega' or 'Cavuan' or 'Vanguard' that don't exactly match their expected tier.

Fudging the values a bit is a longstanding problem, since even among the vanilla subs themselves they aren't exactly perfectly balanced to their tier and price. For example: the Humpback ( tier 2, 13000mk ) is almost identical on-paper to the Kastrull ( tier 3, 31000mk ). So when I look at one of my subs that has similar size, armaments, and capability I have to make that decision whether to make it 10,000mk or 30,000mk

Another banger, we've been recently testing out some of Your subs and they are all great. One question though, could You add a note somewhere explaining why Your subs are tiered and priced the way they are? It might help some newer folk like me and my friends that found most of Your ships out of place with the game progression when we first played with them on. We only now came to understand what You had in mind, thanks to this comment section and plan to "delay" buying them to a later point in the campaign so they feel balanced with other subs. I understand all Your reasoning, just a suggestion for new folks that want more ships and may not know all this balance stuff.

Personally I love seeing civilian style of ships so this one was great! If you're looking for more ideas, a Tier 1 High-end VIP or Prisoner shuttle with a combat/scout drone for protection would be very interesting.

@Ulysses
If you mean the top guns being able to shoot into the deck, that's kinda intentional. Since you have to be able to aim that low to hit any monsters that are 'latched' onto top deck. Consider avoiding shooting the captain in the face through the bridge window a "bonus challenge".

Unlike previous brigs, I actually made the pump intractable on this one.
( It can't be switched off in the UI though, which was the main reason prior brig pumps were not ineractable ) So yeah unwiring it is an issue, but that's why security should search your prisoners first anyways. ( I put the locker outside brig so it can be used to temporarily store "low-risk" confiscated items, like their tools & uniform. ) Also unlike previous bridges, this one has a secondary method of 'incapacitating': a small shock coil. So if all else fails that can be used, just beware not to completely fry your prisoners.

As for the tiering, I explained it in another post on a different sub but long story short: I kind of extrapolate my sub tiers because alot of my "Tier-2" subs are actually like "Vanilla tier-3s" I just put them into tier-2 because I only save tier-3 for the really crazy late-game submarines. I kind of base the balancing of the sub less on the tier and more on the submarine's price . So that's why alot of my tier-2 submarines are like 20k and 30k, because they're still 'tier-2' in terms of intended campaign progression but they'd be underpriced if I kept them at tier-2 prices.

I like to give people the option to buy subs slightly early if they have the excess cash, so alot of subs end up in tier-2 or "high tier-1". All this is sort of my solution to player choice and the phenomenon of alot of people 'skipping' tier-2 and going right to tier-3 in campaign. So I give alot of options to buy "high tier-2" submarines, and I only gate behind tier-3 the submarines that would be "tier-4" compared to vanilla... if such a thing existed.

In this particular case, the reason this sub is so expensive despite being a tier-1 is because it's rather large for a vanilla tier-1, it has fabrication, and it has hardpoints for 2 more guns.

@ZeGuardsmen
Small drone-capable ship? Sure I'll keep it in mind.
I always need more 'unique' ideas for Tier-1s anyways.

Nice, my only bits of feedback so far is that some turret angles allow to fire into the hull and the pump and coil in the brig can be unwired if the prisoner has a screwdriver. Also I know it's expensive compared to other tier 1 subs but what was your criteria to not make this one a tier 2?

Love the current style of the subs you got we could use a small Drone Carrier one for start up campaign and a Sub for doing some cave clearing with unmaned units since T1 earlies tend to get forgotten for late T3s

really cool , can't wait to try it out!

I need to know if the EK gunnery is still working. If so, I expect your EK add-ons to be updated.

How amusing, I was just looking for a T1 Sub to start a new playthrough with; quite fortuitous this, well made too.

really nice, especially with the proper bridge

another banger. thank you for sub