Now, time for a mod where neither Bill nor Coach can realistically run around, with occasional jumping, for more than a few minutes without gassing.

Though I'm guessing this might've already been made.

woman

You know, Left4Dead1 let survivors hold more ammo for shotguns since they had no melee... little inspiration for you.

Yes, you can do this by installing another mod that does that, or waiting until I make one

can she atleast be buffed in another way? can she have faster movement speed? more accurate with snipers ?(women are better at sniping than run and gun)

I haven't

I've seen a thinner girl keep perfect control of a shotgun for multiple full tube dumps of .00 buck. Guns aren't that hard to fire and chainsaws aren't that heavy...

I will probably make other ones suited for each survivor with specific downsides, and I might do more with specific upsides too

the comments 💀💀. based mod tho actually was looking for something sortve like a class system for the survivors. Anyone else with this in the future?

3 pages of comment battle was not what i expected, anyway keep making banger mods that turn survivors miserable, in a bad(and fun)way like that jockey mod

accurate

it's not sexist, I injected tank sperm into every survivors arms except for Zoey and now they can punt cars while she can't

it's not sexist, I injected sulfuric acid into Zoey's arms and now she can't lift anything heavy

Who thinks this is sexist clearly has never met a girl and neither a girl who fired a gun
For a man it takes lots of training to properly fire these weapons, imagine a woman.

Jesus, why can't ppl js download mods, be thankful of the person who made it, and enjoy them

oops :/

Alright that is enough.

If you're gonna blatantly lie and ignore everything I've said thus far, I'm just gonna delete your shit.

you done yet?

also, it's your mod and all, but besides of it being a joke (mod) and besides it making the game harder, it's just pointless... but yeah, it's a joke mod

@Ikharos I think that wraps this conversation up then. If your only response to everything I just gave you is "you're wailing", then I'm not gonna waste any more of my time.

and again, your mod is problematic, if not then you didn't had to "countermeasure" it by saying "please don't be sexist, it's that she's small"

you didn't provide evidence, you just tried to "pass a towel" on the problem with another problem

Now as I've already said, you are free to call me what you want if you've got grounds for it, but if you want to continue with that then I suggest you get your shit together, keep your argument consistent, and figure out what you're actually trying to claim here, because "your mod is a minor nerf to a female character, therefore you hate women" just ain't gonna cut it. I've already explained in depth the creative decisions and logical reasoning behind why the mod is just for Zoey, so if you go back down that avenue then you'll just be stuck going in circles.

i answered all your arguments, you're just wailing about things that didn't happen as you say they did

You have no point, no argument, no consistency. You jump from claim to claim and never commit. You branded me as sexist, I provided extensive evidence to prove you wrong, and you said the evidence was instead proof that my mod is problematic.

And in case it matters to you, other people did leave sexist comments on the mod, and I deleted them as soon as I saw them, because in spite of the reality that exists in your head, I don't take kindly to people putting others down cause they're female.

This is why I brought up the point about making it for Ellis (which you refused to reply to and instead twisted my words). The point would've been that sometimes it makes more sense to have a mod only for one specific survivor, either for realism or comedic purposes. When you DID reply, you contradicted yourself, saying:

"you would be going through another problem, it's that Ellis is actually pretty strong... too strong to really suffer from such problems the script means to do"

This is the exact opposite of what you've been saying since then. You said that it would not make sense for the mod to apply to Ellis because it wouldn't be realistic. But you've also called this mod sexist because it's applied to the only character it could be realistic for.

"you could have just made the mod without making it a thing specific for a character" Why do I have to? Am I not allowed to make a mod for one character in particular? Do I need to make every single mod apply to every single character? What about mods for the infected? I have a mod that makes Tanks deal extra knockback, do I now need to go back and change that to apply to every infected?

And I think you're going the wrong way with the whole 'realism' angle... Yeah, L4D2 is not a 'realistic' game. But that doesn't mean it's suddenly wrong to make a realistic mod for it. Just google "L4D2 realism mods" and there's HUNDREDS of mods that add realistic elements to the game. There's nothing wrong with that, you don't have to use them if you don't like them. But saying "Tanks can throw you across the room, therefore everybody is forbidden from adding anything realistic to the game" is just ridiculous.

Because... that's just the way I write. It's consistent with other mods I've made, like my special infected modification program mods. I haven't done it specifically for this mod, I do it for almost every joke mod I make (joke mods being those that just make the game worse, but the effect they have can be funny if you're not expecting it)

@Ikharos so your problem is with the way the description is written?

Oh really? Well then what explains Smash Bros were smaller characters like Ness can carry a crate or cracker launcher?

"you know who isn't logically strong? Rochelle"

again, this is Left 4 Dead, not Real Life starring US, silly people with silly preconceptions and our silly hatred towards people different from ourselves.

i think you're missing the point, this mod is problematic due to how it is presented and on who it works and the reasons why the dev told us (which of is you i presume).

you're trying to be realistic, but then again, your realism don't apply on a L4D game at all, you could have just made the mod without making it a thing specific for a character AND without saying silly things like "look at how small her arms are. Tell me you honestly believe she could fire a shotgun without it flying off her hands. Go on, tell me. That's right, because SHE can't."

again, we are playing a zombie game where the zombies can easily run and climb up places and throw rocks or spit acid or ram people on the floor. Your mod is just problematic, it's not me, it's you. And you know it because you're trying to make a point here, but really, there is no point...

Only Louis likely shares Zoey's weakness due to his office worker background—Nick, with his criminal past, probably knows combat. To settle this debate, character-specific debuffs might help:

Coach: Movement debuff when ascending (stairs, rubble) due to weight and dislike of climbing.

Bill: Occasionally trips from knee shrapnel.

Louis: Similar to Zoey—struggles with heavy weapons, M60 limited to short bursts or dropped if fired too long.

Ellis: Can carry 2 primaries but moves slower and may trip when randomly. Mechanic perks justify buffs, but tripping adds balance.

Rochelle: Can’t sustain M60 fire—only bursts. Lifting cameras ≠ firearm handling.

Francis: Hard to pin down but move bit slow, slow enough to not outrun but fast enough to do jumps for parkour—he hates everything.

Nick: Likely combat-capable due to his background—no obvious debuff.

Yeah, her age is also a factor (though Ellis is likely only a couple years older and he's much stronger thanks to his background)

rochelle is also an adult whereas zoey is just a college student. the difference in their applicable strength is different

You're making my mod out to be "Zoey has low upper body strength because she's a woman" but it's just not. It's "Zoey has low upper body strength because everything she does aligns with someone who isn't strong". I had this mod idea, Zoey was the best fit. You said yourself it'd be unrealistic on Ellis, but it'd be unrealistic on everybody except her.

The next closest survivors to her in terms of physical strength are probably Louis and Nick, as they both have a preference for SMGs and pistols in the intros, but they both also have their own demonstrated feats of strength and if they were to compete against Zoey in just a plain lifting competition they'd very likely come out on top purely as a result of having 6-10 inches of height advantage, which would naturally mean they have more muscle mass.

Every other character is stronger than Zoey by a significant margin. I've already covered Rochelle in depth, but:

- Ellis is frequently shown carrying numerous primary guns, and he has a background as a mechanic
- Coach knocks a zombie to the ground barehanded, and has a football background
- Nick is able to pull Ellis away from a Smoker and two common infected that were holding onto him
- Bill kicks a zombies jaw off while under anaesthetic, and has a background as a soldier
- Francis is a biker, self explanatory
- Louis holds a door shut while a witch is pushing from the other side

All of this suggests Zoey is simply not a physically strong person. And that's completely fine. There's nothing wrong with lacking physical strength. But it's not because she's female; we know that because of how often Rochelles strength is shown off. Zoeys lack of strength is due to her character background, a lifestyle that doesn't involve much lifting, and a preference for smaller, easier to handle weaponry. That's just how Valve chose to write her.

There's a bit more variety in the sacrifice trailer, where Zoey can be seen holding (but not using) hunting rifles and an AK. She is also still shown with a pistol several times however. In the sacrifice comic she uses shotguns, an M16 and the hunting rifle, but due to the comic just being still images its impossible to say how well she handles them. She's also seen knocking down a guard and taking his gun off of him, albeit he was distracted by Bill.

In every campaign poster, Zoey is shown with a pistol. The sole exception is the sacrifice poster where she has an M16.

The only other things she does in the intro are:

2:04 She throws a pipe bomb, something that pretty much anybody could do, and it doesn't travel very far. Whether she intended for it to land nearby or not is unclear, that might just be as far as she can throw (which would again mean she's not that strong)

2:32 She shoves a Hunter off Louis. Even with a running start, she struggles with this and has to put her whole body into it. (if she WAS physically strong, she'd have an easier time with something like that.)

4:04 She gets lifted up by Francis onto the roof. Notice that she only places her hand on the ledge to stabilise herself; all the actual lifting is done by him.

And then we get to Zoey. Her bio says she's a student who spends most of her time watching movies. Not exactly a strong indicator of peak fitness.

In the L4D1 intro, we get a good look at her fighting style. She exclusively uses the Dual Pistols, a weapon she likely prefer due to their light weight and relatively low recoil. That's something you'd expect from a person who isn't very strong. A lot of the time when she uses the pistols, there's very noticeable recoil, usually a lot more than when Rochelle uses them.

Give Coach a movement speed penalty due to being overweight.

In the campaign posters, she's also usually seen holding a rifle one handed. The exception is Dead Center, where she holds a chainsaw in one hand and a machete in the other.

All of this indicates that she is a very strong and fit person, someone who has no trouble handling melee weapons or bigger firearms and who is used to lifting heavy weights.

In the L4D2 intro:
0:06 She's seen using a fire axe. She's seen using melees frequently, something you wouldn't do if you couldn't use them effectively (which requires significant upper body strength)

0:42 She's seen holding a desert rifle, and immediately goes for a gun bash. Again, you need to be reasonably strong to do that.

0:44 Seen once again with a fire axe

0:46 She swings a fire axe over her head with ease

1:05 Rochelle uses an M16 and seems to handle the recoil easily

1:57 She holds Nick up, unsupported, with one hand.

2:39 She fires the Dual Pistols with minimal recoil

2:42 She turns the mounted gun with little difficulty

2:48 Same thing again with the Dual Pistols

I'll give you a little hint: Zoey is the only survivor for whom this mod works without being unrealistic. She is by far the weakest survivor. That's got nothing to do with her being female; that's the way Valve has presented her character.

The only other female character, Rochelle, is MUCH stronger than Zoey.

Her character bio specifies that her job involves carrying cables and camera equipment. That sort of thing isn't light, so that alone is an indication that she's at least reasonably strong. But it gets even clearer when you look at all the other times Valve shows her in action.

Yeah... and you know who isn't logically strong?

but let's say you did made a mod for Ellis that reduces his strength and he can't use stuff as others would normally. you'd stumble upon the same problems i addressed (realism VS fictional monsters) and also you would be going through another problem, it's that Ellis is actually pretty strong since he made an entire truck (or pickup, i don't remember...) reinforced in his mechanic shop to go through the hordes. which by common standards require a lot of strength to carry things up and around... so he is logically strong, too strong to really suffer from such problems the script means to do.

you're just changing subjects from a problem to try and make a point out of blatant "what ifs", if you did made this script for Ellis, it would still be considered illogical by the same reasons i pointed out before... problem is that you didn't do it, and you didn't say a thing about Ellis being X or Y and that's why it's Z, so i can't really go out there and call you out for being sexist towards Ellis since you never did (as far as i know) made THIS mod for HIM.