Mini problem diseibel

Thats dark

Removing the pregnant trait doesn't end the pregnancy. The game offers no means of stopping a pregnancy. At best, you could mark the mother, and have an event kill the child at birth.

If all you want to do is prevent future kids, you could have a decision apply a modifier that reduces fertility of the man and/or woman.

Finally! Likewise I'm surprised the game makers didn't include an element like this (even if it was onlly avaliable to women with 'cruel' or 'chaste' trait) after they included death by childbirth, as herbal abortatives were well known of in the Medieval period.... albeit frequently with deadly consequences.
However, it does clash with the adoption mod. No biggie.
Thanks for your work!

I will check and see if I can fix.

Dont work. Game + all dlc. Its looks like work, but birth still happens

Hopefully I will have a little more time to look over this and think about rebalancing options.

The reason why the game doesn't allow abortion is not on morale grounds, but on the fact the lords in the medieval age couldn't give abortions.

Heh. I always wondered if there was a mod like this. Thanks for taking the time and Effort to make it. Now I will no longer have twenty or more kids..... And Be stuck with Gavelkind due to unreformed Polytheistic.

obiously. ill download anyway

I haven't had time to update much lately, I am considering all avenues for the future.

Not all religions hate Abortion or Infanticide. But some do, more than others.

add that abortion fail or that the women escapes fo no aborting,also the church must hate you for doing it as well as your court

Does this work now?

Wow. Here we have a game that involves incest, rape and the assassination of children.. And people complain about a mod that allows abortion?

Haha. Some of you pro-lifers are seriously sick.

I will take a look at this when I am not balls deep in writing papers. I will examine if I can figure out why they would not lose pregnant trait - I did not have this issue myself.

I will consider removing the "important" - it was added so you wouldn't have to roll down to the bottom of your menu to find it.

This mod doesn't work for me. They get pneumonia and whatever, but they're still pregnant

Divine Blood:
Zorostrain(spelling?) and other religions have it. You get prestiege and opinion bonuses with others of the same religion for inbreeding.

wait wha? you can sleep with sister? nope, never seen it.

Well abortaion wasn't so easy or garented back then so that's probably partly why it wasn't added...

Just one thing I dont like Thadien. The decision is an 'important' one in your mod. Why? It means the notifier icon for decision is always there regardless which is annoying. It should only be important when you need it or can use it. If that is impossible please just let it be a normal decision, anyone who wants to use it will know where to find it.

To those 'pro-lifers', note that this decision represents a husband forcing their partner to abort their child. I would hope that you would surely see in this situation the domestic violence issue and the wellbeing of the would be mother would be the main moral concern. I suspect the pro-life movement is largely blinded by it's own mob consciousness wrapped up in its own need for feeling superior so that when it merely sees the word "abortion" it flips out and has the need to judge and prosecute until everyone is as mad as them.

Thadian, those ideas sound great. Good luck implementing them.

It's interesting playing this game as an rpg. Trying to get inside the mind of the medieval characters from history. Why they did some of the awful things they did and everything. In the game you are given a character to play and I like to try and negotiate the ck2 world bearing those traits and ones past in mind. Abortion is a fact of life past and present and should be part of the game to make the historical insight gained from this game frank and more complete.

@[TWC]Strader You can have sex with your sister/daugther, blind, torture, execute and castrate people in this game, which you, obviously, play alot.
So why don't you simply move your religious confused, hypocritical ass out of this and stfu?

@[TWC]Stradar What? It's a requested feature. Thadian is providing a rather useful decision.

As a reminder, no "actual" abortion is performed. The pregnant trait is removed, the drawbacks are applied. Simple stuff.

Im really asamed to see a mod that promotes Abortion... Shame On you sir!!

1. I am looking at adding a low piety cost, limiting who you may use the decision on, and firing the stillbirth event, if I can get it to work.

2. I am currently looking at events and decisions, so I can make an event that if a male "commands" a female to have an Abortion, that she (might) have a chance to attempt to flee to another court to bear the pregnancy and raise the child.

3. Lastly, I am looking at the idea of Abortion being a family secret; maybe an event where the decision has a small chance to be discovered granting social malus.

If and when I make these improvements, I will relocate this version of the mod (which is currently a bit OP) into a "Cheat Abortion" mod, as some people will prefer this version instead.

Zion - Sure thing. If you want to change anything, or include various events, go for it.

@Toten lol

Your mod is just like an real-life abortion - pathetic cheat! ;)

Uh Famu_Fam_Fam i dont think anyone is suggesting that; Isuspect any one in this thread who oposes abortion probably takes a dim view of those behaviours as well.

As i said whilst this was an issue of my morality and beliefs i was only initialy angry because i rushed to a conlusion without viewing the affects in the picture and thus thought thadian was offering an idealogicaly driven and ahistorical view of an important subject which is something i both detest and opose (the mutilation of history not abortion that is) : ultimatly i was wrong and thadian had taken suitable care to model the adverse affects as well as the utility of the medivial abortion with an eye to acuracy.

At this point however i still feel that the moral justification is both bizzare and needlessly agresive and that the mod would probably court less contraversy and thus be better off where it removed from the discription.

Hey mate.

I am the developer of the mod called 'lesbian sex, pregnancy +'.
I was wondering if I would be able to integrate some of the code/files into my mod and maybe mod the mod so to speak.
If you decline I understand, I am algood with that decision, I am happy to use the mods independently.
Cheers.

.....So in medieval times abortions is bad, but rape, murder, and extramarital affairs with multiple women (or men if you're playing as a women or a man who swings that way) are okay?

Stop trolling guys. Abortions happened in medieval times all the time by various methods. It's possible with this mod and was possible in real life. This is not about your morals or political ideas.

Your disturbing. Also, it is in The Bible as well as other texts; it's called murder and abotion has usually been considered equal to murder until recent times.

I like the idea, Incognito. I will look into it. Maybe have the decision trigger an event.

While not doubting the prevalence of abortion in the middle ages, I shuold nevertheless like to add that, like any mediaeval medical procedure, abortion was also likely to fail. Therefor I think that it would be appropriate to add a possibility whereby after the failed abortion the baby would still be born as usual, or perhaps born with negative traits.

Despite said critticism I still of course thank you for uploading this excellent mod.

Might bring up the issue on the paradox forums.

A better source would be this: http://www.medievalists.net/2013/12/02/birth-control-and-abortion-in-the-middle-ages/

Or you could check the sources stated in that article.

I really don't want to take a part in an argument regarding the morality of abortion, the situation is different for everyone and only those involved can make that decision for themselves.
Regardless, to my point, I don't sse what your wikipedia article quote proves, if we're going by silphium then yes, abortion predates Christianity, but it is also extinct by the time Crusader Kings II starts. You'll notice that it says that silphium was driven to extinction, and it was. by the ancient Romans. I had never heard before of it being used as a contraceptive, but regardless I do know that the Romans consumed quite a lot of them, enough to completely eradicate it during the reign of the emperor Nero. The rest of your quote also seems to suggest the use of abortion was common during ancient times, Greek and Roman speciffically, but never once mentions the time period of CK2 (769 to 1455)
Basically what I'm saying is that you're doing a bad job proving your point in your argument.

Religious Morality:

Abortion is older than Christianity. If any older religions had a problem with Abortion, they would have addressed it. A lot of things are forbidden in the bible, very directly. Eating pork, for example. Or crawfish. Sodomy is pretty forwardly condemned.

There is not even a story in any holy text in which Abortion is mentioned or discussed. Lying is discussed, stealing is discussed, compassion is discussed, killing gays and burning the alters of people who worship "other gods" is discussed.

There is nothing that condemns Abortion. They wouldn't have hid it, disguised it, or wrote it into a metaphor. They would have clearly wrote "Thou Shall Not Have Abortions."

It has been updated.

Thadian, have you updated the icon? It was such an eyesore.

Thats a fine and moralistic point EmperorZelos but means jack squat in reality; also for the record im pro-choice.

Also apologies for the agresion Thadian I jumped to conclusions to fast, though your views about abortions religious legality still confuse me.

This mod is not an issue of Pro-Life or Pro-Choice. This mod is about adding a feature that I believe should have been in the game (and more offensive things surely are already in the game). Some posters have tried to make this an issue of their Pro-Life beliefs, which is fine and dandy. I personally have anti-incest beliefs but incest is a part of the game, and some features are designed to use it.

The next update to this mod will look at social maluses for Abortions.

The idea is that you want to keep your personal matter a secret, but it might get discovered. I am looking at the way the game spreads rumors about homosexuals. I wonder if there is a way to create a had_abortion flag that lasts for 2 years; during which time you "might" be discovered for it, and if so, apply a social malus. Maybe make it a target of spreading rumors.

I am still new to events, so it might take a bit.

Let's get it straight, There is no "pro-life" just pro-choice/rights, and anti-choice/rights

My initial plan was to simply remove_trait and have the game fire the Stillbirth event which already exists and has negative effects. I had issues getting it to fire correctly, then I looked at the Stillbirth event and realized I didn't like the effects enough.

I want choices in a game to have meaning and consequences.

Actualy having seen the efects you included in the desision perhaps I am reading to much into your slighty peculiar views on biblical literalism.

To be honest you come of as radical and agresive as the pro-lifers often are in both these coments and real life: is this simply a matter of english not being your first language or are you as dogmatic as you seem?

Changed.