[levels=$1;#d1cb6a]50k/150k/300k/500k/750k/1.1M/1.5M/2.0M/3.0M/5.0M/8.0M[/levels]

This is outstanding. Thank you!
Request, Babylon 5: Narn, Minbari, Centauri as first preferences. - Earth Alliance ships are distinctive but we've already got a few humans. Shadows are usually appreciated too by fans if you like their ship design.

@bearhiderug Once subscribed it will be under mods from the main menu

@dolynick Good news is that other than the fighters/bombers acting a strange with indirect fire weapons and the altar worlds acting fishy, the rest of it seems quite sound. Very good work. I'd appreciate it if you could private message me if you get, at least the altar issue, sorted. I could stream it, but admittedly given the config, theocrats are essentially soft-capped at tier 5 vs the other powers which makes it quite a challenge.

@Dolynick I'm actually a twitch streamer who is thinking of playing out a campaign with your mod on board. Theocrat is what I almost always play. I always test before I play to make sure it's not going to be ab ad presentation, so the mod's being put through its paces. I'm playing on 600 system game with a single galaxy and one representative entity of every faction type.

The federation is giving me a run for my money, or was.. Until I unlocked weapon phase changing.

@Maelstrom Vortex
The Altar thing sounds like an oversight when planet levels were expanded. Thanks for reporting it.

really?

@Dolynick Additionally if you take a level 5 altar world beyond level 5 it treats the altar as effectively level 0.

@Dolynick Not sure if it was an oversight or intent, the altar of theocratic worlds still do not offer tiers for population support above level 5.

@Dolynick It does make direct fire make more sense, but I was using the missiles because the swarms would get slaughtered before direct fire was even useful. Then again, I didn't have fighter shielding yet either.

@dolynick I am aware it's possible to escape missile ranges, this just wasn't happening here. It was like the fighters weren't respecting the much more curtailed firing distance. Or perhaps the arc of the missiles along with the truncated ranges weren't being considered by the ai resulting in them not closing on the target. All I know is shoot and poof.. with target moving towards the fighters.

@dolynick Yes, I can confirm that. The targets were actually closing on the capitol ship so moving closer, and the fighters were closing from their approach path, straight ahead when they fired. MIssiles would flower out like on their way to the approaching target and simply vanish.

One thing that I think can happen is when a missile is fired out of the rear of the ship and needs to take the time to fly around before it is even flying at the enemy. I think this sort of thing can result in a slightly shorter effective weapon range, although I don't think it effects it very much

@Maelstrom Vortex
Are you certain it wasn't just that the target was moving?

A missile can be fired at the value of maximum range but if the target is moving away fast enough, that range can increase enough over time that the missile expires before it hits. It can be annoying (and no, the auto-fire routines do not factor it in) but does make some logical sense. It also makes a case for more traditional direct-fire weapons even though missiles generally out-damage them.

It makes me wonder if this may be true for all weapons under those templates.

It appears the Ai does not know when to fire missile weapons correctly on truncated ranges caused by fighter or bomber templates. It kept firing torpedos well outside of detonation range.

@dolynick
Thanks for the quick response, I'll try finding some new sources to download the mod from.

@Tenos
That certainly sounds like there's something wrong with you copy of the mod. What you're reporting is rather strange.

so I have an odd bug that i can't figure out at all. I can load up the mod with the ship-sets however I can only play as Asgard, The Empire, Wraith, Rebels and CIS All the others just don't show up. The list factions also shows up in custom race indicating that something is wrong with my install but I've done it several times now with and without steam and neither work.
Any help with this be greatly appreciated.

heh yeah if no mods were intended then we might not have a ingame mod loader system

(Of course, generally speaking, intentionally making a game moddable kinda implies that mods are exactly what devs intended... which renders this entire sub-argument pointless :D)

@Dalo Lorn
I slightly miswrote; the last sentence should've been "And sometimes...", as in, an additional reason.

Morrowind/Oblivion example is more like optional extra content, but it's a simple example that's enough to negate the absolute statement brigadon wrote :)

Factorio's dev-made mods are mostly stuff that devs would like to have in game but either doesn't fit the "general player base" (either for balance or complexity reasons), or isn't supported by the game engine well enough to smoothly integrate (as "mods", any roughness is somewhat more forgivable). There may be an occasional "I think this should be in the game, but the rest of the team disagrees" mod as well :)

Integrating the user mods is either what you say, or a modder demonstrates a feasible implementation of what the devs wanted to do but couldn't think of how to do it.

I'd argue that the "dev-made mod" examples are decidedly not a case of devs not having time and money... If anything, they had enough spare time to come up with a few variations on their original vision.

As for integrating user-developed mods into their games, this seems more like a case of the devs' intentions changing in response to an interesting idea coming up. For instance, if memory serves, Darloth was the original inspiration for the Shrine mechanic now used by the Feyh.

@brigadon
"no mod, ever, is 'what the devs intended'."

Counterpoint: Morrowind and Oblivion so-called "official plugins" are dev-made mods.
Another counterpoint: Factorio devs made a handful of mods; some of them were eventually moved into the main game. (Some of the user-made mods as well!)

Sometimes the devs just didn't have time or money to implement their intentions :)

@brigadon
Hydroponics Stations weren't added just for the Nylli. They're available to all races as an option for a food source at the cost of something other than money. I changed it from science to energy because the most players felt that research points were more precious and energy income was overabundant in the later game where you would rely more on artificial food sources.

Nylli are obviously meant to NOT have access to the ground structure version. That's core to their philosophy and design. That you don't like it is fine, but that's not really my problem. It's an handicap that you are meant to have to deal with if you play them - whether it's entirely fairly balanced or not. I haven't made Stations inaccessible them or cost anything more than it does other races - I'm treating them equally on the cost front and maintaining their theme.

If I want to address an inherent imbalance in the Nylli, I won't do it through hydroponics. I have no more to say on the matter.

Come on man, you made a mod with dozens of new races, and dozens of new ways to play the game. Throwing "That's what the devs intended' out there? I get it if you are like "This is a dead game" or "I am done with modding this thing." I understand. The game has been open access for months if anyone wants to compile it. Yes, it's one of the greatest capital ship/empire simulators out there, but I can understand if you are tired of messing with it... but no mod, ever, is 'what the devs intended'.

I was using Wraiths as an example enemy. I could have just as easily used Klingons, or Goa-uld.

One of the reasons I really like factions is because the enemies I face are often pulling something new out of a hat.

And no, Star Children are NOT in exactly the same position they were in. Star Children are forced to use hydro stations where other races can choose to use megafarms instead.

That means that relatively, they are in a far WORSE position. I am not sure how you play, but in the games _I_ Play the political situation is highly volatile. Energy is the only way races without political bonuses can compete. I usually play against 2-4 other races, and getting completely tromped in politics can quickly lose you the game.

Yes, the hydro stations are a crutch, and they are a crutch that was thrown out because BEFORE that the Nylli were nearly unplayable.

@Dalo Lorn
The car was the hydroponics stations. Everyone pays the same for them and none of them are in any way superior to the ones they get.

You complaint is that others in the next city over have a bus system while you don't. You're at a disadvantage in that regard, but your city not having a mass transit system has nothing to do with you not being able to afford gas for your car.

Counterpoint: Everyone else had cars already, and by now they have flying cars.

"Yep, and the energy costs make it much worse."
No. It doesn't. It leaves them in the exact same boat they were in before.
Your argument is like saying "Before I got my car, I had to walk everywhere. But now that I can't afford gas for my car, I can't go anywhere anymore!" Yet you still have the same ability to walk that you did before. It's not worse than it was before, it's the same.

"I am not sure what boards you were reading, but pre-heralds Nylli were NOT okay. every third thread was about how impossible they were."
The point was that the devs themselves deemed them suitable for release. Whether or not you agree with that is up to you. They clearly marked them as "hard" though, as they knew that aspects of their mechanics made them more challenging than others.

"I don't like resigning myself to not fighting against Wraiths if I want to play a Tali'zora type trade fleet"
What does this have to do with the Wraith specifically? Hydroponic Stations are irrelevant to them.

" it's a factor of their core mechanics."
Yep, and the energy costs make it much worse.

I wasn't asking you to change it, I was asking you to look into it.

I am not sure what boards you were reading, but pre-heralds Nylli were NOT okay. every third thread was about how impossible they were.

Heck, you could cut star children out of the loop entirely. let people grab something like enhanced races to make up for a design shortfall, or size=pop if they want more of a challenge.

But the game is not being updated anymore. Heck, it's freeware now. we rely on you guys to fix the problems and create the updates that the devs won't. I love factions, and I have over 2300 hours in the game, it's one of my standbys, I regularly cycle through the three big mods to play the game different ways, I don't like resigning myself to not fighting against Wraiths if I want to play a Tali'zora type trade fleet, but I guess that's the only option.

@Dalo Lorn,
That may be true, but it's a decision the SR2 devs themselves made. Could a mod try and address that, sure? I have not attempted to do so.

As for hydroponics, it's the same rules for all factions that can have them. The Nylli can't build any more or less than anyone else can with their energy budget (outside of extreme L7+ planets that may or may not even be possible in a given game). The issue of not having an alternative isn't about the hydroponics station, it's a factor of their core mechanics.

Mmm, brigadon touches on an issue Alar and I noticed even before WotH - the Nylli have a much higher dependence on planetary resources than any other race. (Ironic, since their whole schtick is centered around leaving planets behind and living in space.)

Anyone else can spend a few free tiles and take a minor income hit to shore up any food or water shortages they might have, possibly even terraforming their nutrient planets away to optimize their income (obviously a late-game strategy). The Nylli? If they don't have enough nutrients, they're screwed.

Hydroponic Stations don't exist outside of Wake of the Heralds. Star Children have been around since vanilla and were perfectly playable then too. Not having Megafarms has been something they have had to deal with since their inception.

If you're relying heavily on them as a crutch to build your empire, then yes energy may be a problem. Absolutely intended. Most people complained about the original version of them taking up ever more valuable research points and leaving their empires being technologically instead. This makes much more sense to me and I have no plans to change them back.

Not at all, I am saying that star children CANNOT BUILD PLANETARY food sources.

every single time they want to make a planet tier 1 and there are no available food planets they are forced to build a satelite. That means that they have to build a lot MORE satellites than any other species.

I have tried playing star children a number of times, and at around 8 systems EVERY TIME I tended to be running deep in the energy NEGATIVES if I even attempted to keep up with the other races. This is not 'slow starting', this marks a serious balance flaw.

If Megafarms had the same penalty, I would understand. But Star children simply do not have that option... Thus I think that the energy penalty influences unduly a race that is already widely known to have serious disadvantages.

I simply would like you to rethink this... I like do factions. I really do, If I didn't care I wouldn't be so adamant that there is something broken about this mechanic, balance-wise.

@Brigadon
Star Children use resource pressure just like most other races, including pressure that generates energy income. No building are necessary.

You are correct that they can't build the special tier 7 planet Power Vault but that is not mandatory or required by any race anyways.

Your hostility over this is quite bizarre as every other race has the exact same issues to deal with (IE, finding and managing pressure to build up energy). You act as though the Power Vault is the only and primary source of energy in the game, which is far from the truth.

what "ground based structures that produce 25 free energy"?

As far as I know DOF has nothing of the kind

Then what counterbalances this? I mean, specifically for Star Children? Because as it stands, they already have water problems, but the hydroponics problems permanently set them even further below the bar developmentally, that and of course, their growth issues wth the mothership model...

Do you have some suggestions, strategically for star children then? Or some hidden Gem you provided for them to specifically counteract the HUGE penalty that having zero energy in the course of NORMAL development they face?


Other races can create those huge ground-based structures that produce 25 free energy per turn, easily offsetting the penalty. I am not going to assume you have it 'in for' space based races, but I really want to know what you are thinking, or if you simply haven't given the Star children problem any thought.

@brigadon
It's absolutely intentional and noted as a change in the development logs. Your ability to propel your planet development artificially is directly tied to your empire's ability to produce excess energy. It also gives energy a use beyond just accumulating for artifact activation. Be mindful of zeitgeists wreaking a bit of havoc on the rate from time to time as well though.

I found a really nasty bug. Apparently you have hydroponics satellites subtracting 1 full point from an empire's energy for each satellite.

I assume it's a bug, because doing that intentionally to races that already have huge survival issues like Star Children is FAR too sadistic to be intentional.

@coloredearth

Ship designs are stored in Documents\My Games\Star Ruler 2\base\designs, if you want someone to check them you could upload the two designs somewhere (they're just text files, so you can use e.g. Pastebin). Be sure to give the entire mod list you used when creating them!

@BatesytheArtist

PC specs? Many mods, and especially shipsets, eat a lot of RAM (much more than the base game). The game also eats a lot of CPU while loading. Try firing up the task manager and monitoring the system status while the game loads.

@BatesytheArtist

Star Ruler 2 continues to load art assets after it starts. This can take several minutes, depending on the system and the total load (in this case mod additions). While this is happening, it's normal for the game to run choppy and whatnot until it finishes the process.

If you don't like it being choppy at the start of a game, just wait at the menu or pause the game it until all the icons, etc have filled in (white squares are placeholders that haven't loaded yet). Generally once all the UI is loaded, the background loading process is mostly finished.

When I try and start games using this mod, common library and any one or all of the shipsets, my game becomes unbearably laggy to the point of freezing my laptop before even starting the match (customise races, galaxy options etc) . Any known reasons for this or fixes?

Well, that is why I brought it up. If you ever feel inclined to check it out yourself it would be interesting to see if you can replicate this scenario.

@coloredearth,

The amount of shields on a ship is controlled by ship size and they type of shield, the number of generator hexes used. It has nothing to do with weapons. What you're describing makes no sense within the context you have provided.

Hey, I actually have a mod related question this time :D

In the sandbox, I've got two identical ship designs (just used duplicate) except one has phasers and one has pulsed phased cannons. In the designs tab they both have identical shields - but when you spawn them in the sandbox, the ship with the pulsed phase cannons ends up having double the shields - and ends up winning every battle - even 2 v 1 - and probably more.

Is this intended? And any reason for this?

Will do, thanks for your advice thus far.

@coloredearth,

You're PC is obviously having problems rendering particle effects. That's either a GPU related problem (what do you have?) or something is messing with the effector related files somehow. Either way, I'm sure that both DOF and RS have their effectors set up properly to work so the issue is most likely install or machine specific on your end. A thread in the forums would be much more suitable than a bunch more messages here.

Hi Piccolo, yea I'll do that eventually. For now, after a bit more testing, I can confirm that Phasers are working - they're cutting through ships, and I can even hear them - but no visuals at all. very weird. And the transphasic torpedos just refuse to operate at all. A bummer cuz i was looking forward to those.

@coloredearth: I'd recommend you consolidate the info from the two threads (this one and the one in RS) and create a new, dedicated one in the game's main forum. Would be easier to follow, and, as the problem doesn't seem to be mod-related, it's probably a more appropriate place for this. Avoids a duplication of effort as well :)

Ok, I've got a fresh install of SR2, DO Faction Addon, the Common shipset library, and i've chosen to use the Star Trek shipset. I've got those 3 enabled and fully loaded. I can confirm that my problem earlier with the invisible ships was I did not have the common shipset library.

But I'm still having the same problems with my weapons not firing with a few exceptions:

Quantum torpedos - working
Pulsed Phased cannon - working
Phasers - not working
transphasic torpedos - not working

I will experiment with a few more weapons.