I used to love this mod but I can't get it to work anymore. I've uninstalled both steam and AoW multiple times, as well as removing all local files. I'm currently not subscribing to any mod other than this one in the steam workshop, and this is the only mod available in the launch screen, however, it is still not working despite all of that. Can someone please help?

Thank for you open mind.
I understand why some people have hard time seeing if what they do is balanced or not, and since someone asked I explained why it wasn't.

I forgot to say for the wardancer:
In 1v1, if the enemy is dazzled, then he can't attack you, meaning that the enemy will never be able to strike him when he is 'weak'.
I also forgot ranged resistance making his defense correct against physical ranged attack, while his mobility already make him quite effective against archers.

Also for the slayer:
the deity level governance give him meteoric armor: the combination of +2 defense, immunity to armor piercing and 40% resistance to fire and ice is a big deal on this kind of brawlers with low defense/resistance (for his tier).

Nice review Ktonian. This is my first and only mod besides map making for civ. I am glad so many still use it.

Same idea with the slayer.
Tireless is the same as with the orc warbreed, but you also have the guard breaker of the shock troopers, control immunity and fucking volunteer. You can mass them and you won’t be punished with the monstrous economical precision that implies massing T3 unit nor the risk of seeing your unit being seduced by succubus or converted by evangelist. Let’s not forget all those slayers skills, overwhelm and demolisher.
And after all of that, do not forget minor bard skill.

In the end, lower HP and no regrowth is a cheap price for all thos advantage, and those two unit are overpowered.

Both the wardancer and slayer has the same base damage outpout.
Against a 9 defense target, it will deal 15 to 23 damage at base and 22 to 32 damage at gold. Against a 15 defense target (archon titan), it will deal 10 to 16 damage at base and 17 to 24 damage at gold.
If we compare that to the warbreed, we see in a fist glance that they actually surpass the orc warbreed damage outpout(even though it’s the one who deal the most damage.

But that only the beginning.
If we take the same targets, but flank the unit with the wardancer, the damage output explode: at base rank, it’s already at 21 to 31 against 9 defense and at 16 to 24 against 15 defense, and at elite it’s 27 to 41 against 9 defense and 22 to 34 against 15 defense.
Remember that elves stormsister can stun ennemies: stunned unit always take flancking damage. A stunned enemy taking such damage output will die in one or two turn.

For the Slayer, at elite rank, it has 95PH, 11 defense, 12 resistance and 26 power.
You know armored, no use to explain it. Guard breaker make the enemy going into defense useless: you’ll strike full power either way. Slayers skills give a damage bonus of 3.
Tireless make the slayer able to retaliate no matter how many enemies are there and still having all of his action in the next turn, so it’s very powerful. Orc warbreed has it too, and it’s cost is increased because of that (+10 gold and 20 mana cost).
Volunteer on such high tier unit is, by itself, extremely powerful in the late and very late game. Imagine, if we take an assault force of 3 stack, each containing 2 slayers, it’s an economy of 48 gold per turn.
Minor bard skill is a boost in moral for all of the unit stack. Aside from halfling, moral is already a great deal when it’s affecting entire stack, as it define your critical/fumble chances.

For the wardancer, at elite rank, it has 90HP, 14 Defense, 12 resistance and 26 power.
But it’s real strength is in it’s abilities: martial art, athletic, inflict daze, total awareness and back-stab.
The wardancer here has the mobility of a tigran assassin: most of the time, it will have the first strike and will get behind the enemy. If for some reason the enemy isn’t in defense mode, you can even get the backstab bonus (2+5 → +7).
Also, martial art give you 5 defense when you are the one attacking, giving a HUGE (and most helpful) boost on his effectiveness in the melee (12 → 17 defense).
Then, daze make it impossible for the victim to attack (it still will retaliate though) and to do any opportunity attack. It has a low chance to activate per hit, but it’s a powerful debuff that can sometime be better than stun due to it’s duration.

Orc warbreed’s (the best in the game) has base stats of 85HP, 12 defense, 9 resistance, 21 power and 32MP. At elite, it’s 115HP, 14 defense, 10 resistance and 25 power and 32MP.
Tireless is the reason why they are so great: they can retaliate as much as they want and will still have all their action point on the next round.
Regrowth will regen 17HP/turn on base rang and 23 at elite, but for a T3 brawler unit, it has weak defense and even weaker resistance, so it’s vulnerable against concentrated fire.

Against a 9 defense target (civic guard), the orc warbreed will deal 18 to 26 damage at base and 21 to 31 damage at gold. Against a 15 defense target (archon titan), it will deal 13 to 19 damage at base and 16 to 24 damage at gold.

To put things into perspective by first giving how damage and debuff work.
The power of your attacks is the indicated value +10, minus defense or resistance depending on the damage type. The minimal and maximal damage are the base damage +/-20%.
Flanking increase the damage by 2.
If we take two civic guard and one shot at another with his crossbow at short range, it deal 11+10-9 damage, so 12 damage. Thus, the final damage is between (12 x 0,8 = 9,6) 10 and (12 x 1,2 = 9,6) 14.

Debuff chances is calculated like that: [(debuf power – target resistance)*5 +50] * elemental resistance
For physical debuff, replace the target resistance by the target defense and elemental by physical.
Let’s take charm, a mind control skill with a power of 9, against a civic guard under the effect of noxious vulnerability and another under effect of blessing. The first one’s resistance is at 7 and the other at 11, so the chance of success is ([9-7] * 5 + 50) 60% for the fist and ([9-11]*5 + 50) 40%.

Don't see how it's overpowered for the wardancers to have extra melee strength - they don't have the regrowth that most warbreeds have

Wait, can't you just subscribe to the mod and edit from there? I don't remember how to mod any more, but I recall editing mods was easy...

Ah, ok :(

Yeah I guess it is but i no longer have acces to the orignal files so i can´t change them anymore.

Is it possible for you to decrease Melee Strength at each level-up from +2 to +1? As far as I can tell, none of the vanilla units have +2 Melee Strength increase, and I feel this is a bit over-powered.

What about Halflings?

Sorry I dont have the computer I used to create the files anymore. So the files are gone.

or do you have a better idea?

Thanks for the reply. Someone said I could create a new mod based on yours using your package as a set and change the new mod to a priority higher than the mods which are overwriting yours to get your changes to show up. But it didnt work. Could you provide me with a version of your mod that has a priority of 20 so I can see if that fixes it? I really love what you did with the warbreed for the elves, but cant get it to work. Thanks so much.

Well I created it when the modding tools were released. It worked fine with the mods I used then. I just added the units using in game graffics. I placed the them further down under the ordinary units. If someone else added units using the same rows I am pretty sure there will be conflicts

I cant get your mod to work. Sure I run a lot of mods, but even when I created a new mod file and added your package and changed the priority to 20, which tied Celestial Happenings mod for the highest, it still didnt work. Any ideas?

Lampros - it's a mod - it won't remove them unless you subscribe to the mod. And you can unsubscribe any time you want, them go to 'user content' and click update, then run the game, back to normal.

And have to disagree with giving them more armout icth - though the tireless is a good idea, and giving them projectile resistance to represent their arrow dodging abilities would be good.

If they don't already get Martial Arts ( which i assume they do) they should likely get it too.

Elves aren't meant to have "tanks".

Big improvement - warbreeds are basically trolls. They shouldn't be in anything except Orc and Goblin armies imo. Replacing human warbreeds with Ogre mercenaries would be an improvement too.

maybe you could do a little tweak to the draconian warbreed, something like make them pack a little less punch with their melee hit and instead give them a once per battle fire-attack or fire-breath, to fit the dragon-theme of the whole race, you know?^^

Just an idea though. :)

I've tried this out... and find them basically souped up berserkers.

hmm. since the warbreed is basically the elves only real tank... maybe make these guys a tad more beefy than berserkers for the much higher cost involved in getting them.

I would say add armor at base, and tireless at veteran, which syncs well with the "total Awareness" they start with.

remember... these guys are expensive, and elves really don't have a tank if you replace warbreeds with these.

also, maybe reduce the amount of offense gained per level, or alternate by giving them a single point of an elemental damage instead of 2 physical.

Any chance of getting the source fil for this one?

Is it possible to remove units completely? I thought vanilla units or spells cannot be removed?

The elf and dwarf warbreeds are left in the game so that they still can spawn as guards, but the warlord players can´t build them. Not sure what will happen if I would removed them completely.

Two questions:

1. Do these entirely replace the default Elf and Dwarf Warbreed - as in I will never see them in-game again?

2. Any plans to do the same for the other races, given that I think the Warbreed is visually and lore-wise the worst unit in the game?

Halfling KegMaster warbreed replacment high hp and defenses very low attack abilitys are defense focused like martial arts

the idea a giant ass lucky unit that is a pain in the ass to hit it moves around the feild avoiding damage and blocking paths to the halflings more fragile units

i know my idea is vauge but i don't know the game well enough to balance units ^_^

@Triumf Maybe you use another mod at same time that cancels mine out?

Mod doesn't work for me. It's enabled in the user content but Elves and Dwarves still produce Warbreeds.

I added Icons today. I am satisfied with the Wardancer Icon. The Slayer Icon was not as clear.

Yeah thought of something like troll halfbreed for Goblins. But thats like the warbreed already.

Really cool mod, thanks. Are you gonna add more races?
If yes maybe replace goblin and/or orc warbreeds with trolls?

Yes I gave them volunteer since I found it fitting with the description I chose. Also does it make them more worth to use without overpowering them in combat.

"Slayers are dwarves who have lost their honour, brought shame to their families or broken an important oath. Such a crime would be solved by death, but because Dwarves see suicide as a waste, to regain their honour, slayers seek glorious death in battle against the strongest of opponents"

I see they have volunteer on picture thats from hero right?

Your concept of Guard Breaker, Mind control immunity, Tireless, demolisher and minor bard skills fits for hammerers from warhammer. They are regiment protecting dwarven general inspiring other regiments. Just remove those slayer promotions. I`d say give them wall crushing instead and name them Besieger or Ironclad

Dwarves already has Monster Hunters :O two units will be bit too similar don`t you think?

Added Dwarf monsterslayers. I don´t think I will bother replacing the Halfling Warbreed if someone dosn´t have a good idea for replacement. For the rest of the races I think warbreeds are fitting eventhoug more diversity is fun.

How balenced has this been in-game?
With a quick read through the backstab worries me slightly.

I definitely support having unique units for the different races. Looks good. I would support more units!

If someone knows how do and ad proper Icons please contact me.

I changed the base attack to 18 now and the defens down to 12 physical so that they are a more offensive unit than phalanx. I changed the unit size to 3 so that they distinguishes themself more from the Berserkers

The changes dosnt break saved games. You get a warning but it seams ok when I tried.

Any screenshot ? But well Im gonna test this out :D

only icon left ;) i do like him alone!

Cool unit learn more modding and add more units like this, classic warbreed is totally out of concept for elves, long live wardancer

I have now changed unit size 6 and added Wardancer name and decription. It still uses the warbreed icons though.

I havent figured it out yet will learn more. I am a total noob at this. I want them to be a squad instead of one unit lone warrior too.

Looks great ingame, is there no possiblity to change his icon? or will it change other races warbreed icons too?