@prairie02 by right it should not be compatible. Its a miracle that these two mods work together. I can imagine that the tech tree is completely messed up once one hits the ancient era (missing connections between the techs).

Thanks for the feedback guys; I have not logged in here in a while :)

@Rcoutme - This mod is not necessarily compatible with other mods. At this time I am no longer supporting it.

If I am going to make an additional fix to this mod, I would address the obvious issue with the Neolithic Kilns only being buildable by the human player, making it a sort of "cheat wonder". I also find the free granary boost it gives boring and maybe a bit OP.

Major problem: this does not work with civilizations that have been created (such as Byzantium ... I forget, but the guy who makes the cool great generals). They can not research the early techs. This means they can not research the techs! I am not sure if the AI can get around this at all.

Been running this mod along with Dawn of Mankind, wasn't sure they would play nice together but so far so good...

It is a wonderful mod, thank you. makes the early game more interesting.

@Digital_Archer

Was not even sure if the VP version was still working or not (considering its being updated all the time and a single update to the ancient tech tree would torpedo my mod). But by the looks of it, people are still using it. I have not played VP in a while, so if time permits I will get to adapting this update for VP.

Btw has anyone ever been beat by the AI regarding the Neolithic Kilns? I think there might be an issue with them never buidling it.

Is the VP version going to get the update?

@Darklord Morius

Thanks for the postivie feedback; its always encouraging to hear. I have not worked on this mod for over a year until my now recent update. I will hopefully add a few small things (touchups) in a future release.

I appreciate this mod very much, it maybe simple, but adds the exact deph i think it was needed in the Ancient Era. Good work!

I just made a release with modifications to Knossos wonder and the apiary. Also introduced 3 new buildings to give players alternative faith generating options to mysticism / shrine. Full details are in the release notes.

I remember playng wit this mod (before the updates who messed all of my subsribeb mods...but that an another story), and I always wondered, for the Lascaux wonder, which others citations you thinked could fit this wonder?

@Arkatakor

So this was the revision of the Ancient Era. Moreover, it needs more tech particularly the Growing (tech) and Manuring.

I hope that the next era that needs to be revised and rebalanced is the Classical Era. Classical Era needs more techs particularly Butchery, Thermae, Handicrafts, Processing, Processions and Chain of Command.

These technologies are from Forge of Empires by Innogames.

Thank you very much

@rheceehlert

The latest version has all AI free techs removed, at least until I can figure out how to add more restrictions to buliding the Knossos wonder.

is there a version of this mod that does not give the AI any free tech? with slow science the free techthe AI gain a massive addvantage. I would love to use this mod, I love the idea

@Arkatator, yea, I've also after some thinking decided that 6/6 is too good.

5/5 for 25 points feels fine after several plays. They are not OP, but quite useful in the early game.

@elotar There is no "dirty way" :) Am glad your solution works for you; after all each person plays the game the way they feel it best, thats what modding and mods are all about.

During my initial testing, I found that having too high numbers on the axemen made them OP. I didn't like that they were being used to defend camps though (not sure if they still are). Keep me posted on how your solution works for you in the long run.

After some thinking I has gone "dirty way", changed axemen to 5/5 for 25 hummers and upgradable to archer. It's kind of easy, but if somebody interested I may share modified files.

Started the game with this mode, cool so far.

But got some, as I think, balance problem - stone axeman 4 ranged strength.

Design convention for 1 hex range units in civ v is ranged str = combat str both for convenience as well as for not widely known feature that ranged vs ranged combat resolves around comparison of ranged str. At present state axemans are extremely vulnerable to archers, who are in general best units at the time. In my games it leads to AI spamming them which totally ruins his early combat capabilities.

Quick and dirty fix will be to make them 5/5 and upgradable to archers.

Better one, I think, is to go for Hand-axe - Compbowmen balance level.

So CB costs 75 hammers, got 11 ranged str, 7 combat; hand-axe cost 56, 9/9 str.
Archer costs 40, 7/5 => stone axe 30 hammers (40 * 56/75 = 29.9), 6 ranged (7 * 9 / 11 = 5.7), 6 combat (5 * 9 / 7 = 6.4).

With such stats it'll be quite usable during the whole era, making choice between available units interesting.

Maybe im just a bit dull, but i have some issues to build the lascaux-coves. I have tried multiple times to get it done, even restarted some times to get the needed ressouces in my starting area, but it wont work for me with ivory or deer. The only times i can build it is, if there is bison, horses or cattle.

I don't know, if i am doing something wrong, but if i read the description the right way, i should be able to build the caves near ivory and deer too.

Sorry for the inconvinience,

Greets, R3it3r

@Dogsteeves

Yeah I always felt wonders were just too close to the start. Play on higher difficulties and you have to beeline the wonder tech and sacrifice making improvements just to have a chance to compelte them.

@Vertisea

Good to hear thart you find it not too stretched and boring; I still feel that agriculture and particularly pottery could use a bit of extra buildings / perks. As for the AI, they get techs as starting techs (they dont' have to research them) just like in Vanilla. If you see the last part of the description on this page, the techs in brackets represent what the AI used to have, and the list underneath them describes what they get in this mod.

Btw regarding my previous comment; I tried Civ6 - it was garbage; after 70 plus hours on record I finally gave up and trashed it.

This should be a dlc My friend always rushes for the Great Libary I want it to be harder

Has anyone tried civ6 yet? Any opinions if I should implement this mod (or some of its components) for civ6? I'd be interested to know if acquisition of resources is more balanced than in in civ5. Otherwise i'll happily recreate the hunting and fishing techs.

Those are great ideas especailly the national wonder. Maybe tie in the granary building to have one in every city to gain the contruction of the Five Great Kilns, certainly visable since most of the other national wonders require one type of building be built in each of your cities in order to build it Or make ur own building as you suggested a Potters Kiln building.

@cavalier ; nice suggestion - i'll look into it. The key to making it work would be to have a specific building attributed to the "storing of scrolls in the pots".

I have also been looking to adding a Kiln building ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiln ) or a potters wheel building ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potter%27s_wheel ) or even the Five Great Kilns ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Great_Kilns ) as a national (have a Kiln in every city) or world wonder.

Still in the brainstorming phase of all of this :)

I remember watching a show on the History channel about pottery vases being used to store not only grain but scrolls of learning including religious texts, namely the Dead Sea Scrolls. Maybe an additional building giving a bonus of +1 to Science and Religion but have the building cost 1 maintenance.

Just added the palisade building; gives a small defensive bonus and is available with woodworking. Wow, pottery is looking more lonely than ever in that tech tree. Need to find a building to add to that tech. Still working on ideas for this one.

@cavalier - I have not added the naval production bonus to the carpenter building as promised. This is because there is no inherent naval production attribute to the buildings table. Other mods have achieved this though, so I will look into how they did it and hopefully integrate it into my next update.

@ThePirate - Glad you like the mod. Got back from my leave a few days ago. Hope to make small updates to this mod in the next week or so.

Great mod. Thanks!

I want to give everyone a heads up; i'll be on vacation until the 26th of September, hence I wont be very active here or do any updates until at least that date. Look forward to getting back to this though :)

Excellent suggestion cavalier; I will go ahead and put your suggested change in my next update.

The challenge is always to make sure changes add more to the game but are also are realistic. Your suggestion hit the mark on both, since its historically accurate but also because because I still find work boats too expensive.

That said according to the article it was mainly "woodworkers" that contributed to ship building. I don't know if carpenters was set apart from ship building woodwokers. If that was the case I can always create a separate naval boosting building available with woodworking.

Since we can't link the tree due to all the mayheim that would ensue, perhaps adding a 10% boat building bonus alongside the Carpenter's 10% building bonus. Back in the ancient era carpenter's were used to craft a wide variety stuff including boats and buildings. Here's a link to the history of woodworking to support my intention. http://www.wagnermeters.com/wood-moisture-meter/woodworking-history/

Your observation makes sense. That said, putting a branch from woodworking to sailing would cause a mess in the tech tree. Moving it up there even more so - if you look closely at the Civ4 / Civ5 tech tree's, all the construction / production techs are usually kept close to or at the bottom of the tree. The sailing techs are all the way on the top.

I do recognize your point, however considering the tech tree layout I feel its better to avoid linking it to saling. I'm glad you are enjoying the mod - do come up with more input should you feel there is something missing (particularly buildings) that could be added to the more empty techs (agriculture, pottery, woodworking).

Nice mod but shouldn't there a branch from Wood Working to Sailing? Since your restructuring Ancient Techs and wood is needed to build a ship of that era. Keep up the good work!!

or maybe gold, whatever works lol

Maybe pottery could have another building for +1 culture...? idk :P

If anyone has suggestions on how to make agriculture and pottery more interesting (new buildings), feel free to let me know. I'm pondering on these for the next step.

Yeah I gotta set my updates to automatic. I noticed on my local machine I have multiple copies of my mod based on which version it is. So unless automatic updates are set one does not always get the latest version. Anyway that was a noob mistake on my part.

Just added the Fish Traps building btw. I'll add the palisade next (woodworking).

I'll check out the new stuff as it comes along, as well...

Yeah, I have Steam set to auto-update specific games (including Civ) so it's all there. ;) Hope you keep up the awesome work!

Great to see you back :) hope you got the latest update (includes carpenter building) since I have been changing the version number. I hope to add a building or two in the next 10 days and publish that.

I'll be doing small incremental updates from now on rather than bigger updates like the last time.

Hey, I'm back! Been a while since I last played Civ, but I did last night & ran this mod (plus a baker's dozen others XP) & it worked beautifuly. Also, the Caves are a pretty good wonder that gets stolen like any other... ;P

Ok guys, just published a major update (largest since release). 2 techs have been added, 2 buildings, and 1 new unit. See the patch notes for full details. From this point onwards updates will be smaller and focus on adding a few extras to the existing techs in the ancient era.

I'm not sure if you are seeking modding tips. If thats the case, I use SQL for my updates / deletes. The the query I use to remove agriculture from free techs is:

DELETE FROM Civilization_FreeTechs WHERE TechType = 'TECH_AGRICULTURE';

But a civ that you download from the workshop like Kievan Rus starts with agriculture so I was wondering if you knew a way to fix that

Well if you play this mod, agriculture is not given for free except for certain high level AI's (read "AI Free Techs Difficulty Adjustments" above).

Just to let you guys know i'm gonna be publishing the new update I mentioned in my previous post, hopefully inside of a week.

do you know how to make it so that civs from mods don't start with agriculture

I know its been a while since the last update; I have been working on some additions; 2 new techs, 1 new unit and 1 new building. In the future I plan to fork my development environment so that if I need to do a quickfix like add horse and cattle to Lascaux Caves, I can do so and publish instantly without worrying that my in-development features will be published also.

@fluelmo81 Good point, I had actually thought of that, though in this case I would opt for horse and cows rather than include sheep - the reason? Lascaux Caves is littered with paintings of bulls and horses (though no sheep). You can google "lascaux caves" and select images after the results and see for yourself :)

https://www.google.se/search?q=lascaux+caves&biw=1536&bih=758&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiCpse2yrzOAhWBNCwKHQgYBokQ_AUIBigB&dpr=1.25

Some wonders are situational so I don't think it's too much a problem (Colossus must be on coast). You could simply expand the animals that allow for Lascaux Caves to include sheep and cattle. The logic being that in ancient times before they domesticated these animals they were simply hunted.