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dexgattaca 21 20 Feb, 2021 @ 7:05am
Iron Hands Mod Development Thread
This thread is to talk about the game design and direction of the Iron Hands Mod. Share you thought, ideas, likes, dislikes.

I'll get started,

* The Merge Squad problem - I enjoy the mechanic but I feel it is more trouble than it is worth, especially in the late game - where it is supposed to be used. It’s also not viable for the AI because it is very rare that the conditions required are met. A far more elegant move would be to have a ‘Reinforce Squad’ button in the tactical menu which bolsters a squad for a certain cost. Not as cool a mechanic though...

*Lieutenant - my issue with this demi-hero is that players will attempt to build it early as a replacement for the Iron Captain and be terribly disappointed. It is very much a support unit. The +2 accuracy buff may not seem like much but this buff is cheap and when used on much better units such as 5 man Devastators or a pack of Predators you get a huge boost to damage output. One solution may be to stick the Lieutenant with the Librarian upgrade.

*Librarian - I’d like to have this unit have a bit more flavor. At the moment the only reason to produce him is to have a +2 movement spell for Dreadnoughts/Baneblades. I was thinking of turning him into a more offensive unit...but not sure yet.

*Iron Father- this is my favorite hero in the faction. Useful for both vehicle and infantry play, a bit fragile, not much of a fighter but can pack a punch with Shock Assault when necessary. My only issue is that the vehicle heals is a bit too strong. Maybe reduce it to 20hp. Another option is to make it an AoE heal instead - healing target for 8-12 and adjecent for 4-8hp.

*Iron Captain - love model but this is a very boring unit. It is way too easy to cheese the AI with this guy by just equipping him with defensive items and throwing him forward to tank all the damage. I like his Elite skill. At the same time Iron Hands captains are supposed to be tough as nails, so his current stats totally fit the theme. I was thinking of making him move 2 just so that he will be more difficult to position and requiring the investment of a movement item.

*Venerable Dreadnought - holy smokes does this guy pack a punch. It is not that tanky though, which I like. I was thinking of moving him up to T8 and reducing his item slots to 3.

*Bionics - I don’t mind the current state of things. Hearts of Iron +20% HP may be a bit much. The main problem though is the amount of research needed. Vehicle builds are much easier because the player has more options to choose economic and support research nodes.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
SynisterSyclone 3 21 Feb, 2021 @ 7:15pm 
Hey man, loving the mod. Each update adds something I like. I'm going to just respond to your points for now while I think of things not mentioned.

Merge Squads
I agree that it is rare for the ai to use this. Reinforce sounds like a good idea to me, but maybe have a requirement of being a certain distance to a city or structure. That way there is a sort of source for the extra troops.

Lieutenant
I love this guy. I use him as an early support hero for that extra oomph. I can see why there might be disappointment at first, but once you understand he fills a different role he works really well. I also dont disagree with making him part of the librarian research or his own all together. You could also just keep him as the one hero that is unlocked, and make the captain require research.

Iron Father
I use this guy a lot, but agree that 24hp on one unit lets you make some stuff almost invincible. Very much agree with the AOE approach.

Iron Captain
I agree 100% here. Giving him some sort of nerf feels right.

Venerable Dreadnought
I havent had a chance to use him yet :(

Bionics
These are very cool. I like that your soldiers feel like veterans as they upgrade more and more over time.
As for the infantry vs vehicle problem, why not allow vehicles to use bionics as well? The vehicles are piloted by marines after all. This would make bionics a tempting choice regardless of someone going infantry or vehicles.
Last edited by SynisterSyclone; 22 Feb, 2021 @ 7:02am
#1
Phaeron Amarkun 8 23 Feb, 2021 @ 4:44am 
I like your mod. But I still think the Baneblade made the momentum of the IH slow so quick
I just use Baneblade as a sucidal drop pod and let my predator do the work. Because Baneblade so slow, when playing as AM you can accept that low but not in SM faction

May I suggest Terminus Ultra Pattern, basically the Land Raider without the transport and more gun, more armor
#2
dexgattaca 21 23 Feb, 2021 @ 7:09am 
Originally posted by SynisterSyclone:
Hey man, loving the mod. Each update adds something I like. I'm going to just respond to your points for now while I think of things not mentioned.


Hey Synister, thank you again for all your feedback. It has been tremendously helpful with this mod. What do you think of the Sternguard, Vanguard and Terminator units?

Originally posted by Phaeron Amarkun:
I like your mod. But I still think the Baneblade made the momentum of the IH slow so quick
I just use Baneblade as a sucidal drop pod and let my predator do the work. Because Baneblade so slow, when playing as AM you can accept that low but not in SM faction

May I suggest Terminus Ultra Pattern, basically the Land Raider without the transport and more gun, more armor

Hi Phaeron, thank you! Unfortunately I cannot make new models and I don't believe there will be any heavy tanks coming from the Too Many Mods team soon. So what do you think should be done with the Iron Hands Baneblade if it cannot be replaced by another heavy tank?
#3
Jey 14 23 Feb, 2021 @ 7:56am 
Couldn't you just reuse the Land Raider, increase the number of weapons he has (they are twin-linked, it's fine, you can say there are more of them!) and remove the cargo?
#4
Phaeron Amarkun 8 23 Feb, 2021 @ 8:32am 
Originally posted by 76561198886039948:
Couldn't you just reuse the Land Raider, increase the number of weapons he has (they are twin-linked, it's fine, you can say there are more of them!) and remove the cargo?
Yeah, I think SM lack a punch against super heavy and this Terminus Ultra Pattern
with all of weapon is laser is nice additon and keep the weak of vehicle against inf
#5
dexgattaca 21 23 Feb, 2021 @ 9:19am 
Originally posted by Iffu:
Couldn't you just reuse the Land Raider, increase the number of weapons he has (they are twin-linked, it's fine, you can say there are more of them!) and remove the cargo?

That can be done but I want the mod to feel polished, so I'm avoiding unit proxies such as this.

Originally posted by Phaeron Amarkun:
Yeah, I think SM lack a punch against super heavy and this Terminus Ultra Pattern
with all of weapon is laser is nice additon and keep the weak of vehicle against inf

Do you think the Iron Hands lack this punch? Is it a lack that needs remedy?

#6
SynisterSyclone 3 23 Feb, 2021 @ 1:00pm 
Originally posted by dexgattaca:
Originally posted by SynisterSyclone:
Hey man, loving the mod. Each update adds something I like. I'm going to just respond to your points for now while I think of things not mentioned.


Hey Synister, thank you again for all your feedback. It has been tremendously helpful with this mod. What do you think of the Sternguard, Vanguard and Terminator units?

I really like them. They make for a good late game replacement to their more regular counterparts. The terminators allow for specialization. I tend to build one much more than the other depending on my enemy. The combi melta on the sternguard is probably my favorite though.

I also can't help but wonder if the devastators will get a like-minded higher tier unit.
#7
SynisterSyclone 3 27 Feb, 2021 @ 9:25am 
I also think the Hunter is still lacking. The extra range is nice, but annihilators vastly out perform in damage and are good against ground targets as well.
#8
dexgattaca 21 27 Feb, 2021 @ 10:33am 
Originally posted by SynisterSyclone:
I also think the Hunter is still lacking. The extra range is nice, but annihilators vastly out perform in damage and are good against ground targets as well.

Agreed. The issue is that Annihilators only get that damage at T8. So maybe Hunter's can get a 2nd missile shot with the T8 Additional Armaments research?
#9
SynisterSyclone 3 27 Feb, 2021 @ 5:00pm 
There's an idea. That tech is pretty valuable already however. I don't remember ever not opting for it as soon as I could.
#10
SynisterSyclone 3 28 Feb, 2021 @ 8:27am 
What if the Hunter had a separate upgrade tech named "Indiscriminate Targeting". It would give the hunter equal damage and range on all targets. Maybe even add an ability attack with barrage attached so no LOS is needed as well. This could turn the hunter into an AA/artillery dual role.
#11
dexgattaca 21 1 Mar, 2021 @ 8:40am 
Originally posted by SynisterSyclone:
What if the Hunter had a separate upgrade tech named "Indiscriminate Targeting". It would give the hunter equal damage and range on all targets. Maybe even add an ability attack with barrage attached so no LOS is needed as well. This could turn the hunter into an AA/artillery dual role.

Hey! I think we may have a Whirlwind coming eventually. Also, I don't want to deviate too much from the unit in lore.

As for the unit. I don't think the Hunter is that bad. Yes, Predator Annihilators are good at dealing with flyers but that is an issue with the Annihilator being OP for it's points.

I have found a place where the Hunter is excellent: infantry support. Infantry generally requires more hex-territory than vehicle armies so the range 4 is very helpful. The Hunter is good at it's job as is - all it takes is one mid-tier research node and you get a decent AA unit. It's cheap, fast to make and won't get in the way of troop production.

On another note, I've been play testing the Iron Captain with 2 movement. It makes him more interesting in the early game. Synergizes well with Mechanized for example. Doesn't eliminate the cheese of having him fully kitted out and tanking a whole army. I had him keeping the whole army of an Impossible Tau AI at bay. I think a big problem is him benefiting form cover damage reduction on top of his layers of protection.


#12
SynisterSyclone 3 1 Mar, 2021 @ 9:06am 
If a whirlwind is coming, then by all means leave the hunter where it's at. Is the whirlwind in the pipe for DLC or a mod btw? It's definitely nice to have that range and it is available 4 techs before upgraded annihilators come around.

I like the idea of the slower captain. Yes, he can tank, but if you want to tank for your other troops then the whole force is slower to allow the captain to keep up. As you said, it pushes you towards mechanized as well.
#13
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Date Posted: 20 Feb, 2021 @ 7:05am
Posts: 13
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