The affliction ones that give damage are super broken with the new class mod, the Fool, but I dont know, both are mods, so I dont think it might needs balance since its a mod class

Originally posted by Hoovy:

The affliction ones that give damage are super broken with the new class mod, the Fool, but I dont know, both are mods, so I dont think it might needs balance since its a mod class

I could maybe possibly plausibly do something about that. What part of the combination is the overpowered part?

Been wanting a mod to add new trinkets, as i felt their where not enough in vanilla, got to say yours adds a good amount with a great example page to show them in the preview screen shoots.

Before I add my opinions, that are very well probably bias in some ways. I want to point out main reasons I tend to look for in trinkets and the usefulness of them.
1st----It needs to be a fair trade off, or a slightly good one in your favor (especially if rare/very rare)
2nd----If it supports a new play style for a class/boosts one for a class it must do so in a way that supports the change. This is for Class Only or speciality trinkets (like Sarced Sroll)
3rd----It must not punish supporting the play style it if you are using it in the correct manner or as Intended.
4th---Dont let lower rarity items outclass higher rarity if both are Similar in intent/design.

So onwards to my questions/concerns and some recommended changes/reasons why to change them.

Commons;

Cherished Letter: +5% Virture chance and +5% Death Blow Resist

This is a overall just a pleasant buff, and not really bad. But no desire to be used
Also doesnt feel good to use, Especially on medium or up difficulty.
Its a common so that is fair to not have much power or use, but it needs more.
Personally Adding in -5% Stress Recieved makes it actually useful for what you want, and not overpower it at all. (or add in +2 to a stat of something, crit is Not a good idea tho)

Tyronic Casting: +10% prot, -10% HP
When i see the prot i think oh a tank item.....then i see the hp lost and go oh a try to make me not die item for a non tank but not do its job most likely unless they already have low hp.
Let me explain why.

If it was not designed to help a tanky class, then its doing what it was ment to at a high cost.
At low dungeons this is fair but as soon as your at higher lvs/dungeons its a waste for the most part.
10% Protect stops 1 damage on average, maybe 2 if at higher dungeons. (crits are not counted)
Classes that are tanky would rather have the max hp then the prot, (or a higher protect item)
Classes that are dodge heavy and/or low hp would rather not get hit, or even with this prot will still get low hp or be in danger despite the items intent to protect.
overall needs either % hp penalty to be only 5%,
OR
The Prot increased by at least 5% (still not good enough a change but helps).
side note:
You could add a resistance to bleed OR blight of like 10% but dont reduce the hp penalty then.

Uncommons; Oh boy one of my favorite trinket levels to use as a base in vanilla same with rares but thats not here.

Lost Grip:
Conditonal +10 ACC, +5% crit, IF stress lv below 25....oh and PLUS 10% stress recieved
what can I say here, if you have played you know one thing about stress....its going to get above 50 points on average fast. especially on medium dungeons or higher.

before i explain why its bad, simple fix, change condition to if stress above 50.
At that point the the item is only ok, just ok. its strong if you have a good stress healer at EASY dungeons but only on easy dungeons and frankly thats ok.

First DD has for some reason in VANILLA (aka no mods) randomly given my guys alot of the times 20 stress at dungeon start for 1-2 of them (and at champ lv rarely gives me +80 to one)

that was only my first agruement that with a little thinking could let you know why this item is bad.
Second reason its bad, average 13 stress per stress caster that hits your team in EASY and medium dungeons. Not counting crits, general stress, stress items or any other way of gaining stress. If its not obvious at this point, simple thing is, 1-2 rounds of stress targeted or battles and this item is now useless to you. OH but take 10% more stress for the entire time your equiped with said item.
This item feels like this (no bonuses) take 10% more stress........ rather have basic Snake oil (a common item!) or the vanilla item Surgical Gloves that give acc and crit to melee skills only then with their resist penalites to stun/move. OR even Worry stones are so much better. Those are also uncommon items.

So either increase stress lv to lose bonuses and even add one positive buff maybe (like dodge or 10% damage, tho damage would be strong)

or remove the % stress recieved fully.
Even then I would only look at it as a tempt boost time only and still would not really consider it much as a trinket to use.

Side note:
Keeping it as is could work if it GAVE ONE of these:
**Reminder Just One**
A: A constant NO Conditons buff to either speed (+2 or 3)
B: Bonus to stress healing recieved (10 to 15%)
C: Bonus to Resist Movement by 20%
D: a death blow resist of like 10% as in a better Grip on Life pun

wow all this talk for ONE uncommon item. It had to be said tho.

More Uncommons:

Virulent Castings; +15% Prot, -20% bleed resist, -20% blight resist

Only have two things to point out, underpowered for its Tier of uncommon, BUT its got the Right idea of what it is.
Weak fix to it would be to increase Prot % to 20% Prot

Strong fix would be reduce the - Resist penalties to both of them being -10% or if you dont like that to -15% (reduce penalites to -15% is a weak buff to the item.)

Or add in plus 10% max HP without any other changes. (Also a strong buff)


Classes that would like Prot but are low hp classes would not benefit as much from any of the buffs above (even the hp one), and Tank classes would but it reduces resistances and does not affect stress levels in any way. So its balanced.


other then that I cant see a fix other then adding some dodge but tanky classes dont usually have that much dodge to matter with the increase and dodge classes dont need a easy prot item and gain more dodge.
So No dodge to it please.

More Uncommons Continued:

Blazing Cauteries; -25% bleed skill chance
I like your idea here, I see where your going with this Occultist only item, I like that direction its pointing to.
But to be honest here, I Hate the Rng of the Occultist healing, and the one reason i hate it is ......the ZERO HP healed chance. So I dont use the Occultist much anymore. (bad luck alot)
Now i know you have a trinket in rares called "Mending Extremity" with no class restriction that is like ment to be combo'ed with the Occultist on the target your healing having that trinket.
But needing TWO Trinkets to do the style support of ONE trinkets job or Nitch. Especially if I need that Mending Trinket on ALL 3 other heros making a 4 trinket combo is asking WAY TOO MUCH of this.

my comment says all the agruement I need, simple fix to add:
Plus 1 hp to healing skills done

This removes the Zero number problem, supports the items intent, and rewards the play style and your trinket slot you USED for it.
Problem solved. Next!

----Ferrous Primer----- +25% Prot on first round, -2 speed on first round
Well this one is interesting in its intent, to prevent damage on first round to you but make sure your not going first to abuse it........so many conditions here as to why this is not a good item.

First any item that gives you +10% prot constantly going to give you more bang for your buck every time. (reason being that you may not even be targeted at round one with this)

Second reason its bad, prot only prevents a % so the more damage the more protection and 25% only prevents 2-5 damage at average. A plus 10% hp buff would give you that hp prevention and ability to have that hp healed up again.

Third you have a speed penalty on there too for no real needed reason.

Ok now to how to fix this,
One simple fix would be.....very strong but maybe worth a Trinket slot
---increase Prot % for first round to say 60% (its only one round of a bonus and you might not even be attacked) personally i want it at like 80% or even 90% because after round ONE this item is bascily a BLANK item.

Second fix, the speed minus is rather a empty threat like how the item feels empty in its slot after round ONE. Lets fix that
Lets change that to After round 1
gain Plus 5% Prot and -1 speed

With this change after round one its as strong as a Common trinket (protection stone I believe)
but it has its one Round effect that does what it was intended to do. Prevent a burst damage at Round 1 that did hit you. Simple, easy, and Fair to the intent of the trinket.

RARES: The suppose to be fun items/ change your class play style.
(or be nerfed in vanilla cause devs think they make the game easier....to each their own I guess.)

So we got a pair here that I liked the intent of but the feeling of it doing its job.......is not there.

Misplaced Buffer +10% prot if below 50% hp
and
Hereditary Ward +10% prot if above 50% hp
both give +25% resolve exp (please hold your excitement in)

First +25% resolve exp....unless on hardest difficulty (due to time limit in weeks) this bonus is ......a total kick and giggles, cherry on top of a .......cake?..... I cant call the other bonus for these rare items a sweet anything. More like a Bland, not filling bread with no sugar in it. They have something but its just plain bread, that dried and is barely edible.

Rares need to fill a niche, support a style, or give you a slight edge in what a class already does.
these items do Not even do what they intended, and that intent is protect your hp pool either while low or from going much lower. While exping a lower lv person up faster I take it.

We could triple the Prot of both, but that makes the Misplaced Buffer really good, too good in a way. While Hereditary Ward would be just a slight damage absorb then gone buff til healed.

I got a better idea, lets have it do opposite styles of Protection at different times, making it a protective item with HP timing.
Misplaced Buffer, gets Plus 10 Dodge while above 50% hp
Hereditary Ward gets Plus 10 Dodge while below 50% hp

This still fullfils the role of protecting the hero as intended (even a low lv hero) while still not allowing its buffs to stack on ITSELF.
And even if someone uses both items at the same time the only benefit they get is plus 10% Prot and plus 10 Dodge at any time, and use up two slots to do so. sure they get exp increase but that matters very little in the long run. and its only tanky stats not damage or acc so champion level dungeons are still a challenge for this trinket/combo.
I can think of tankier combos of trinkets in vanilla that do a better job, and still give more stats.

so these items are balanced if done this way.
(personally I dont care about dodge as much but I dont want to add more to these items in fear of Overpowering them.)

Rares Continued;

Brigand's Arsenal: (Highwayman Only)
+15% damage if in Postion 1
(ok alot of rares give this amout of damage usually without much of a condition, and position 1 is....very risky for him compared to this gain.)
Riposte: -15% damage
(if this is at all times why? when going for Position 1 your doing your Riposte combo to get there usually. if it is at all times your riposte damage is just hurt for no reason/reward for having this penalty.)
-4 Acc
(no thats insulting this play style of postion 1 Riposte Highway man with no positive buff to counter this negative)

So what is this items intent? It feels like a use position 1 for a boost item.......but get smacked in the face for trying such a thing.

First a vanilla item BRAWLER'S GLOVES does the same idea, BETTER and less punishing and is a Genric no restriction item. Only the -5% crit on the gloves really hurts at all and thats managable.

Second where is the benefit to utilizing Position 1 better then any other item for this CLASS restriction on it.

So lets make an item that Rewards a HIGHWAY MAN for being in and using a stlye that puts him in postion 1.

First damage bonus increased to
+20% if in Position 1
( riposte damage penlty removed completely)

now lets support this position 1 style figthing some more.
+10 dodge if in Position 1
-5% Crit if in postion 1 (to avoid Riposte being too strong)
-2 speed if in postion 1
(this is so you stay in Riposte longer but Discourages to start battle in Postion 1)
now we add a flat bonus to the item to give it some flare and feeling of use
even if not in postion 1.
+5 Acc ( this overall all makes the item feel useful in general without overpowering him)

so if not in postion one, He suffers no crit penalty but only gets Plus 5 Accuracy overall.
but if he does his position one style he get rewared with damage and some extra dodge to help survive the hits there but gets some penalties to compensate for the boost to him.

This supports the style and give the item a niche type to fill for the Highway Man.
We also avoided making him too strong in the front. -5% crit hurts him alot more then most classes for this which is why we did that penalty while in position one.

Item fixed, lets move on.

Now for VERY RARES: These should be class changing and very supportive items for play styles

Aggressor's Shawl:
+40% damage if in position 2 (would seem good, too good to be true, it is read more)
+2 speed if in position 2 ( speed is nice usually but this also is too good to be true)
+10 Acc if in position 2 (this is always wanted on high damage classes so nice)
-10 Acc if NOT in position 2
(wait why punishing this play style for moving but the class kit says position 2 is bad for me anyways?)
-30% move resist (i guess we needed some other negative to hurt us for....some reason?)

......just why? This item is So intent on making you postion 2 for an ARBALEST ONLY...and she has ONLY TWO SKILLS to use while there.
One does damage....RANDOMLY at a single target , with Very Low ACC
The second, does Destealthing, plus torch, and clears some effects off allies plus a low % stress heal for a VERY low stress amount.

This item does not support even those two skills very well.
So either
A: we make up a entirely new item
B: completely change the item to support postion 2 so well that its actually worth something.

Frankly I dont know what to do here, deleting the item seems the simplest of ideas but takes away from your mod instead of enhance it.

So lets try enhancing the style the items supports and we dont have to worry about overpowering it too much as position 2 isnt very......strong/abusable by the Arbalest.

First
Lets stop punishing them for being in postion 2 or OUT of position 2.
reason being is that they are already punished for being there as they have TWO skills only at that point.
Second how can we support position 2 style for the Arbalest?
+ACC was a good idea but the -ACC was a bad idea
So +15 Acc while in postion 2 good idea but only on a random shot basicly
(NOTE: that chance to hit caps at 90%)

Plus 40% damage....randomly but basicly is fair, you get alot but you dont control where
keep Plus 40% damage while in position 2

+10% critical if in position 2 (making random shot more worth it)

ok what else.....she can stress heal in pos 2 but thats about it.......wait wait I got it
Plus 100% stress heal SKILLS
(no conditions as its a low heal of stress anyways if % roll succeeds that is 67% at best)

She does need some type of negative or people are going to scream OP when they dont realize she is so limited in Position 2 anyways (basicly -2 skills available negative while in postion 2)
ah I got it! well i will just put it in the overview then as a Surprise!

so overview then:
+40% damage while in position 2 (remember only ONE random damage shot skill to be used there)
+15 Acc while in postion 2 (remember that chance to hit caps at 90%) )
+10% critical if in position 2 (remember only ONE random damage shot skill to be used there)
+100% stress heal on SKILLS (she has only one other skill to use in slot 2)
-2 speed (this encourages she starts in Position 2)

see that there, the -2 speed will make her less valuable if not in position 2 as she is slower and some people love speed alot, this item was never about speed. so a negative like that with this power puts it in its own niche/style.

We now have a Position 2 Abralest ITEM
If the name of the item seems off now, as some may feel, lets just rename it.

Very RARES: and THE LAST CHANGE ON MY LIST (yes i wrote a list for this)

NOTE:when i want to use VERY RARE trinkets, I think of them as my Champion level trinkets I want to bring to CHAMPION level dungeons.

Cold Shoulder: Crusader Only
+20% damage if in Position 3...(he gets one skill for this that damages.....and moves forward 1)
+3 speed if Torch above 75 ( actually can be good for this SLOW class as it is, for its condition tho its only ok) [again its a slow class]
+6% Crit if torch above 75 (really nice actually, and fair in favor of the player for the condition)
-20% healing skills ( heals of his already suck, this just makes them worse for no reason)
-20% Stress skills
(one of his main jobs is to stress heal if he is in POS 3 or 4..and you want to punish him for being in 3 or 4?)

This item feels like, lets make your Holy Lance damage a little better to you cause you started or ended up in postion 3 on ROUND 1 with our nice little speed buff if the torch is high you slow butt crusader. This damage is 2-3 points on average more then normal. This damage does not kill things any faster as most things in CHAMPION level dungeons will still take 2 hits like this to die while your overkilling them by 8-12 damage overkill easily.
(crits not accounted for due to unreliability of getting them.)


So lets review the negatives of the item.

+20% damage if in position 3
Yes this is a NEGATIVE!, it tricks you into thinking your getting a buff, ONE skill buffed is not enough and at this LOW damage amount compared to the CONDITIONS it requires is the reason.

+40% damage if in position 3 would barely come close to a fair buff for being there. BARELY
as most things i want to hit with HOLY LANCE at its BEST would still require that second hit to finish it, but it also could be finished 95% of the time WITHOUT this buff.
Low level dungeons this might be good. even mid level ones, BUT Champion level dungeons are where I want to take VERY Rare items, not low lv dungeons.

But when a buff like this is not even needed for the end result, what is the point of the buff?

So now the second shot I have to do on that creature with an Actual dps class just do more OVER kill then they already are going to do.

I just want Holy lance to hit usually on the target not do more damage. Its the hit I need not the damage of it usually. Especially if the crusader is using Holy Lance to clean up a kill its going to die as long as IT IS HIT. damage be dammed at that point.

AND you move out of position 3 using this Skill, so the buff to your only skill that damages in Postion 3 is GONE til you get back to POS 3. Yet again another punishment to this play style as you have no BACK skills to speak of in your kit. So you have to rely on either another class, or waste a turn. (wasting a turn is usually a bad idea for dps efficency).

SO on wards as we just moved forward 1 on this topic. Pun intended.

Torch buffs if above 75 (the +3 speed, and +6% crit)
They are actually in themselves FAIR, very FAIR but also have that too good to be true feeling. which is where the true comes to light here....light torch above 75,...funny right?
These next penalties push you away from using your main torch Plus ability Inspiring Cry.

The -20% healing skills and -20% to stress healing Skills
Why this penalty? Cause it fits the name of the item? Cold Shoulder right?
"Cold shoulder" is a phrase used to express dismissal or the act of disregarding someone
if the Crusader is going to cast a skill INTENTIONALLY on someone, your are NOT disregarding them you are completely regarding them with serious intent.

Ok so the -20% Healing Skills, really actually I feel this is NOT a good negative as it DOES not punish enough. yeah you read that correctly its not a punishment.

Crusaders heals already suck, and are low, you lowering the heals by ONE point on average, but you gave him +6% crit to those heals......and a crit heal will only be reduced by 2 points on average on his BEST heal. one point on his healing for the Inspiring cry still on a crit.
So this doesnt punish really. its a, eh who cares about this negative.
But then again, the damage buff even if at 40% is a eh who cares unless I critical.

(which the 20% would be enough if you managed to get a critical, again not reliable)

so dont care about the damage buff, and dont care about the heal debuff, if that is what you wanted then fine its fair.

The point is that if your in postion 3 or 4 with a crusader your wanting to do either healing, stress healing, or dash forward damage.
This item should support that or give it a good reason not to.

So let us follow the name of the item and fixed this:
-20% Stress Skills,
CHANGE TO...Drum roll............
-40% Stress healing Received

Here is why, If you going to give the "Cold Shoulder" Your going to ignore people or at least try to, so that Jester that wanted to SING to you to Destress you, you just give him the "Cold Shoulder".
That guy that just criticaled an enemy, wants you to relieve stress casue it was awsome or such.....but you dont care, cause you are in a "Cold Shoulder" mood. It may of been impressive, so you do feel some relief from it but just not as much.

So the trade off is as follows on my suggestions so far:
+40% damage if in Position 3 (still not great but eh better)
+3 speed if torch above 75
+6% Crit if torch above 75
-40% Stress healing recieved (this makes up for the good buffs from the torch light stuff)
-10% virtue Chance (cause this crusader dont give ♥♥♥♥ about good stuff)

The minus to virtue chance makes sense with the Cold Shoulder idea, and is only a Conditional penalty like the % damage bonus is on POS 3. Fair Trade.

The -20% healing skills is not needed even now as there is no point reason or even a fair trade for this this its either not enough, but your not going to get enough of a benefit in exchange either for this. So dumping it altogether seems right.

Done, please read next comment.

AS FOR YOUR OTHER ITEMS, THEY ARE AWSOME FAIR, AND FIT A STYLE OR ARE BALANCED.

You are and can do great at making trinkets.

Yes I critizied and even complained a little about some of them. But I gave my reasons and they are my opinions.

This mod has amazing potential, ideas, and even some considerations for how vanilla trinkets should be balanced.

Keep up the hard work as I know you put hard work into these. I feel it was not easy, but you did get it done. Take my opinions as you can, and hopefully at worst all I did was just encourage your thinking.

@Enlonwhite
Oh wow! Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback! I have actually been working on-and-off on a minor balance patch, so this was well timed. I took your criticism and suggestions into account and made some alterations. While I have some counter-arguments toward some of the things you said, other parts of it I feel stupid for not thinking about earlier. And have actually released the balance patch today! Just now! I am currently writing the patch notes which you can view in the Change History, which will be done in a few moments. And after that it's the images' turn.
I hope you'll find that some improvements have been made, at least to some degree. Thanks for using my mod! I hope you'll continue to enjoy it!

Sorry If I sounded crazy or off my rocker, but I actually was so passionate about your mod, it looked so good, that I actually spent like 7 hours on my idea/changes of those items cause they where the only ones I felt needed it.

But It took me a bit to type down and Proofread all that, so I was another few hours of that, which I got really tired near the end.

So if was sounding Cranky, I am sorry.

I actually really want to see the changes, and even hear some of your Counter comments to my input.

I love a good discussion in the realm of nerdy math ideas on game stuff.