Total War: WARHAMMER II

Total War: WARHAMMER II

Sisters of Avelorn
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
RedDragon0908  [developer] 1 Jun, 2018 @ 9:48pm
Wishes/Changes
In this section I want to give you the possibility to state out what you want or what you dont want or what bother you. But please do it in a respectful and polite way.
Be reminded that I will read every post but I dont promise that your ideas find a way in this mod.
Last edited by RedDragon0908; 10 Jun, 2018 @ 2:50am
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Showing 1-15 of 23 comments
Shirome Artiste 2 Jun, 2018 @ 5:14am 
Let me start with saying that I've downloaded and used your "old" version of this mod for quite a while, albeit with some changes I think might be worth considering introducing in the "main" version of the mod.

First thing I changed: Unit stats. These units you introduced are, price-wise at least, fairly lategame. Their stats, especially the infantry units, are pretty lackluster for lategame and they tend to be outperformed by their vanilla counterparts.

The main culprit here is that the weapon damage values you're using seem, to me, to be lifted straight from default units like e.g. the spearman. This causes the unit to underperform because even if all of them have acceptable MA/MD values the melee units just hit like wet noodles.

A quick and dirty way to change that is to just create "High Elf Sword/Axe/Spear/Glaive/Etc 02" or a different set of names and tweak the weapon values accordingly. Just keep in mind that, unless OPOP is your thing, you should aim them to be at or around their vanilla counterparts. Right now however the infantry units aren't worth using compared to vanilla HE units.

Second: I'm not sure I really dig the change in recruitment building(s) you made. Setting them to the new sisters of avelorn building might make sense thematically, but it dumps a whole bunch of lategame unit options on the player(Or AI) as early as turn 10ish. I think it might be, for a balancing perspective at least, a better idea to reroll that change for at least some of the units back to the worship chain.

I hope it's useful critique!
Last edited by Shirome Artiste; 2 Jun, 2018 @ 5:15am
RedDragon0908  [developer] 2 Jun, 2018 @ 5:40am 
I see your point. For the recruitment thing maybe add a second building requirement.
The stats are a bit more difficault: I increased some stats in this version. In a early version the "main" version I choose stats that was to OP for many people so I decreased them. Now you say (if I get you right) the stats are to low or weapon damage is to low.
I get your idea but I dont now how far you are in modding realated themes: i have to find a solution which the majority accepts and as long as only one or three or five people want other stats Im not in the position to change them. I hope you get me right. Maybe I will add "custom" weapons but there is the same problem.
Now I ask you directly how would you set the stats (morale, damage, deffense, weaponstrengh etc) to get an elite-style unit.
Im sorry if this aswer sounds a bit angry trust me its abolutly not.
Shirome Artiste 2 Jun, 2018 @ 7:37am 
The biggest issue your melee infantry units face is that their weapons are based off of, what I can see, HE spearmen. The MA/MD stats are...okay for their cost. Not WTFBBQ-level broken like the new Sisters of Slaughter(Which are hilariously OPAF) but MA/MD doesn't matter much when your weapons are terrible.

I would recommend a ballpark as follows:

Swords: Between 30 and 40 total Weapon Strength(I'll abbreviate it to WS). Relatively low AP and high base. Something like 21Base-9AP to 28-12. Add a VS infantry bonus of choice(10ish, they're supposed to be high-end)
Reasoning: It's basically how I modded the swordmaidens to be pre-Q&C launch, basically offering "Tankier but less murder-y swordmasters"

Glaives: 35-45 WS, good mix between Base and AP. Kind of like 21-14 to 28-17. Minor Vs Large bonus. Basically offering Wardancers except with more armor and a tad slower.

Spears: Look at the Phoenix Guards, then work from there; They're a fairly good idea for how to make high-end Spear units for the HE.

RedDragon0908  [developer] 2 Jun, 2018 @ 9:41am 
Ok then, Im glad to say you that these are more or less the same values that Im currently testing in several battle combinations. Maybe uploding a "hot-fix" tomorrow.
Last edited by RedDragon0908; 2 Jun, 2018 @ 9:42am
Ozymandias 12 Jun, 2018 @ 11:35am 
As I continue unlocking the vanilla tech tree, all the units from this mod are obtaining their new, correct unit ranks when recruited except for Swordsisters. They seem to be stuck at unit rank 2, while the other infantry units are up to unit rank 5 from the tech tree.

As I was typing this, it occured to me that I had a mod that affected the Sisters of Avelorn DLC unit, and after disabling this other mod, the levels on Swordsisters, Sisters of Avelorn, and Princesses of Avelorn units all had their recruit ranks reset.

So it's a conflict with this mod, https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1401967950, but I'm not sure what I can do in my campaign other than keep both mods on and have the conflict, or disable the other mod and have rank 0 recruits for the three units I mentioned. I tried advancing a turn to see if the units would update to their correct rank without the other mod active, but it did not.
Last edited by Ozymandias; 12 Jun, 2018 @ 11:36am
RedDragon0908  [developer] 12 Jun, 2018 @ 11:56am 
Ok so it is really a bug but a non gamebreakin one, right? I cant imagine why these mod "conflict" each other but of course I will try toi find it out too.
Ozymandias 12 Jun, 2018 @ 12:08pm 
My Swordsisters are less effective than the other units at the moment because of the unit ranks, but no it doesn't affect my game that much. I could restart my campaign and disable the other mod but it's not a big deal so I'll just keep playing it
RedDragon0908  [developer] 12 Jun, 2018 @ 12:14pm 
Oh I miss understand you I thought you were the author of this mod. The problem is that the author created a whole new skill so it is clear that my units cant benefit from this. I hope you understand me: the only way to make these mods compatible with each other is to make a combined version (for example).
Ozymandias 12 Jun, 2018 @ 12:19pm 
Ah, I understand. I'll just remove that mod in the future then, thanks
RedDragon0908  [developer] 12 Jun, 2018 @ 1:47pm 
No problem and of course in this situation it is not a bug bug a "light conflict".
Natalia 15 Jun, 2018 @ 10:28pm 
This mod is really neat!

I would love to see some chariots and mounted archers in a future update. :)
RedDragon0908  [developer] 16 Jun, 2018 @ 12:58am 
Its a bit funny that you posted this. A few days ago I stated at my friends mod that we modders are limited by CA (Creative Assembly).

We modders have to use the values and files that are given us by CA. That means if we want to create an entierly new unit we have to use the animations that are already in the game.
I like your idea but unfortenly there are no "female" animations for chariots or mounted archers except the mages and lord animation I think. And that is the problem we as modders have to find the specific gender animation and this animation have to use the right skeleton (in the files there are Humans, Elves, Beast, Dwarfs) all of them use an other skeleton (more or less) so all of them uses different animation types. In theory it is possible to "crossover" race and animation but we cant use male animation for female units. Thats why my spearmaids uses the female sword animation.
An other problem that comes a long with this is that the variant models (helmets, armours, legs/boots, weapons etc.) are locked to specific races/animations. That means that we cants use human animations on a unit with high elven variant because the variant dont support this.
I hope it is clear to understand.
To your request yes in the theory all requests are possible but as I stated how it looks in game is an other story.
Of course I will look in the files and see what units are possible to made for expanding this mod.
Ozymandias 21 Jun, 2018 @ 11:36am 
Hello again. Love the units in this mod, but I have to wonder if all of the units including the dragon being available at tier 3 might be a little OP? But the real thing I think should be changed is that the bowmaidens have 100 ammo. Most if not all other high tier archers have ammo below 29 to start with.

Also I just read today's update, seems like the male voices in battles was a bug that the devs fixed :D
Last edited by Ozymandias; 21 Jun, 2018 @ 11:37am
RedDragon0908  [developer] 21 Jun, 2018 @ 1:10pm 
Thanks again for your feedback. Yes you are right in one of the next updates I will add a building requirment in order to match the specific tiers.
The ammo thing well thats a "illness" by me: in my eyes archer units should have ammo that last for the entire battle.

Dont read the patch notes today but thanks for your info. I hope that the male voices are fixed because that is/was the only problem I am/was not able to fix.
Kyris 29 May, 2020 @ 4:17pm 
Griffon Maidens !!!! seems like the next logical step in the restoration of the Maiden Guard of Avelorn.
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