Crusader Kings II

Crusader Kings II

MTA - Vice and Virtue
Hoping to spark ideas, take everything in here with a massive boulder of rock salt
Suggestion to extend the slavery mechanic (or outright trying to inspire you to make a slavery mod lol), making it primarily tied to culture instead of religion, and some "special features" for a couple of religions, it's my wishful thinking of course, i'm just throwing it out there since it dawned on me, to see if it stimulates your own ideas for your modding, which i'm falling in love with

Norse (Only Norse, not the whole north germanic group)

West, Central and East African (all 3 groups, Entirely)

Arabic (whole group) - Gets more cash from slaves with African cultures, foreign prisioners can be made into courtiers to be employed (you can't press their claims if they are not of your religion, can't grant them land if they are a primary heir, and if they don't like you enough they will attempt to escape)

Altaic (whole group)

Iranian (whole group)

Hungarian

Nahua

Han - Can Only Sell Non-Han as slaves, Unless convicted with murder

Israelites can't sell other israelites

Both Indo-Aryan and Dravidian groups

Alan and Assyrian

Norman

Anglo-Saxon and Saxon

Irish

Vlach

Some Goverment Tweaks:

Nomads can always sell slaves, even if religion disallows it, but so it gives hefty prestige/piety penalties and opinion malus towards felows of the same faith

Tribals can always sell slaves unless religion explicitly disallows it (see below)

Iqta gets more cash for military/stwewardship educated slaves, reflecting how they were heavily used for war and bureacracy

And instead of making religion the primary requirement for slavery, make it tweak/override the cultural avaiability

Muslim can always sell, exept for Sayyid and Mirza charachters (unless branded as decadent)
they can engage in "large scale" slavery, which operates as a stacking character trait that's gained when looting provinces or crushing uprisings, it can be spent to trigger county modifiers or to raise retinues, but you run the risk of slave uprisings (plus slave armies have really low morale)

Christians can't sell other christians into slavery (not even when heretic, Norse, Normans, Anglo-Saxons, Saxons, Irish and vlachs are exempt)

Jews can't sell other jews (not even when heretic)

Hindus can't sell the 2 upper castes (Vaishyas are fair game though) and as any other religion, selling the 2 upper castes will outrage hindu rulers

Confucians get more money from selling eunuchs(for use in bureacracy) and underage females (for use in domestic servitude, as it was a sign of status and prestige in tang china to be employ mostly young females as servants)

Jains and Bons can't sell slaves at all (not even when tribal)

Buddhists can only sell them if they are nomad

Manicheans can't sell other manicheans

Mazdaks can't sell slaves unless nomad

Zoroastrians lose piety when selling slaves

Following pagan faiths can always sell regardless of reforms, any other pagan can sell if religious tax/seabound is enabled,

Aztec (And any religion with bloodthirsty gods) can always sell, but fellow aztecs will disaprove (you could be feeding the gods!)

Germanic can always sell, in adition chance to generate a random prisioner every "Tick" when raiding (prisioner is lowborn and of culture/religion of province) selling clergy of other faiths gives prestige (nuns/monks and theocrats or their courtiers, not sure how to synergize this with iqta and monastic feudal though)

Tengri can always sell, when a nomad raizes a holding prisioners can be generated in a similar manner to above

African can always sell slaves, when you win a duel against a relative for a title you can decide to sell them instead of killing them

Zunist can't sell fellow zunists nor people of your dynasty (not even distant relatives or bastards)

Hellenic can always sell slaves, they can engage in large scale slavery like muslims (but can't raise slave armies) they can use male capable prisioners to perform gladiator games which gives prestige, little hellenic opinion and reduces unrest in one owned county and give a slight tax boost if it's hellenic, the better combat the prisioner has, the more prestige their owner gains, if a character gets "insuficient funds" they can get imprisioned by their liege, hellenic rulers don't release their war prisioners uppon victory, instead they can use them to perform a triumph, the more prisioners taken in the war, and the higher their rank, the more prestige the triumph will give, hellenic rulers can sell foreign prisioners of ANY rank this will outrage everyone in their realm, as well as minor outrage from anyone of their religion and their culture, and cause lots of unrest in whatever land you might have taken from them in the short term

more details about large scale slavery- it can be stacked up by sieging down holdings, crushing uprisings, winning wars, depending on the size of the realm defeated (in this case it gives a temporary economy malus to the defeated party, or, if the defeated becomes unlanded, gives a huge bonus to the victor)
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Sowilo  [developer] 6 Dec, 2018 @ 3:26pm 
i'm under the weather right now and have to take a break from more than minor modding for a couple days, and not fit to comment as much as I'd like, but reading through this as best as I can and a lot of these ideas look fantastic, and I'd be more than happy to give a go at implementing. Loving your ideas, stay tuned and I'll see what I can do!
ɌƗȻꝀŦɆɌ 6 Dec, 2018 @ 4:53pm 
Hope you get better, this was only something i though up as i was playing with the mod, you current slave trade system is fine as it is, just though about a few ways you could make it more in depth if you they interested you
BorisTheAnimal 8 Dec, 2018 @ 2:11pm 
here are also some ideas of mine:
greeks and romans could be able to select an eunuch character from the "elevate peasant" decision, to fill the minor title of parakoimomnenos (hope I didnt butcher it)

additionally from selling slaves one could also be able to "go to the slave market" to buy courtiers and whatnot, an alternative to the "elevate peasant" decision.

in addition to the hellenic part from ops suggestions maybe make the gladiator part more tangible (be able to build an arena building in capital, enabling the gladiator optins) etc
Sowilo  [developer] 8 Dec, 2018 @ 8:23pm 
With the time I've had, I've implemented some of these suggestions (such as Iqta giving bonus to slaves with certain education types, Hindus being able to sell slaves that aren't of certain castes, etc) and there's more I'd like to implement if I can get around to it, balance it properly, and fit it in the game to my standards.

I really liked the idea of "going to the slave market", so I implemented something similar just now @BorisTheAnimal. It lets you purchase a courtier and select from 3 different education types, and there's also a "special request" option, currently with just 1 option (suggestions welcome; general or culture/religion specific).

You can also choose to castrate male slaves or not--unless you are of a culture group/religion that does by default (currently Arabic and Muslim only lacks this choice).
BorisTheAnimal 9 Dec, 2018 @ 1:13am 
@Sowilo, I really liked the implementation of the slave market! I know its in is very infancy but anyway, heres my feedback:

Perhaps make it possible to purchase a medically trained slave for a higher price?

Currently there is a cooldown for the slave market (2 weeks) is this intended?

It would be cool to further choose the education tier of the character (i.e.: cheapest = naive appeaser, cheaper = underhanded rogue, expensive= 3rd tier (forgot the name), a king's ransom = grey eminence) in the purchase menu, to make it more flexible.

perhaps make the "slave" character flag a trait instead, with harsher opinion penalties and giving prestige to liege (gotta have bling to have slaves), a "loyal" opinion (subservience)

Adding further to this maybe give the player an event that fires whenever they won a siege of a castle where there is a "slave" flagged character, giving the option to free them, free and recruit them (both giving an opinion boost for characters with the slave flag), take them for yourself (why not) or releasing them from their suffering (kill them)

I like the special option of the gladiators but rn as is I find no use for them rather than commanders and "lovers" for my roman empress, but still this stuff is preety great for its first iteration.

Really loving the path this mod is taking, keep up the good work Sowilo!
BorisTheAnimal 9 Dec, 2018 @ 1:25am 
Adding further to my previous feedback, i see the new slaves have the "loyal servant" opinion already, maybe make it permanent?

also is there a way to make non-eunuch slaves uneligible for marriage? because my neighbors and vassals dont stop pestering me asking to marry my female slave!
Sowilo  [developer] 9 Dec, 2018 @ 5:03pm 
Thanks. I did my best with some of this. Just released a new update adding a lot of stuff (listed in the change notes).

Definitely agreed Slave should be a trait rather than modifier, so I made it into one and it should be savegame compatible (all existing slaves will be converted to the new system), and added some new decisions. I'm not much of an artist, so hopefully the icon I drew fits into the game well enough--I might touch it up some more later.

A hidden no_court_invites flag is now set on slaves. This might prevent marriage requests, or it might just stop inviting them to your court. I haven't actually tested it, but saw it in some vanilla events.
BorisTheAnimal 10 Dec, 2018 @ 2:26am 
Really like the art for the trait! sadly the flag does not work for marriages, my vassals still wanna marry my slaves. wasnt there a will_not_marry flag for the immortallity event courtiers?
Last edited by BorisTheAnimal; 10 Dec, 2018 @ 2:46am
Sowilo  [developer] 10 Dec, 2018 @ 3:16pm 
Good catch! There is, but it would make anyone unable to marry them, which especially doesn't make sense for religions that practice polygamy imo. So I might make it a player-only toggle that you can apply to your slaves; this seems like the best of both worlds.
BorisTheAnimal 11 Dec, 2018 @ 3:49am 
are you talking about the check box you have for your children to tell everyone to bugger off with the marriage requests? it would be indeed the best of both worlds!
Kimanito 29 Dec, 2018 @ 10:16pm 
I really like the idea of slave armies like what ɌƗȻꝀŦɆɌ suggested like the turkic ghulams. As well as the large-scale slavery mechanics.
Last edited by Kimanito; 29 Dec, 2018 @ 11:07pm
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