Total War: ATTILA

Total War: ATTILA

Attila Realism
Juvelira  [developer] 1 Feb, 2019 @ 1:30am
Updates to follow
In order to provide you with advance information about the upcoming Mod's changes and give you the opportunity to make recommendations and to express your preferences about what to follow, I'm starting a discussion topic with the planned features and updates to current ones.
Important : All changes must be save compatible!
I'll be waiting for your thoughts on my suggestion updates and your own ideas as well :)
Last edited by Juvelira; 1 Feb, 2019 @ 2:47am
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Showing 1-9 of 9 comments
Juvelira  [developer] 1 Feb, 2019 @ 1:52am 
Campaign updates to be expected soon:
1. Some public order penalties from immigration, war weariness (already done) and occupation actions will be softened to make rebellions a little bit less inevitable. Those factors are now a little exaggerated. Occupying core regions should not be considered a negative act against the population and actually shouldn't cause discontent like conquering foreign one.
2. Also immigration increase or decrease will be affected by Political situation as a result of Government's attitude and influence over the State. Now immigration can only be decreased by a single edict which is kinda lame and stupid.
3. Increase in upkeep, food consumption and maybe squalor to military buildings, but adding a few units as garrison forces provided by them (nothing extreme).
4. Buff to armour and weapon bonuses provided by weapon-smiths - so they would be useful.
5. Governors should cause some public order penalties to population with different religious beliefs that theirs like in Rome I's expansion Barbarian Invasion. And also the Governors should give some religious conversion based on their Zeal for example - something like that.
6. Looting and occupying will cause less Instability. This will remain the primary effect of sacking a city.
7. Attrition resistance of AI armies in high difficulties should be reduces so that they will also suffer from extreme conditions and environment will play a more strategical role.
8. White Huns will receive some nerfs because now they cause too much troubles for the Sassanids and thus making ERE less difficult to play.
9. Bonuses and penalties of Tax polices will be reduces further, so Changing taxes will be a viable option and not catastrophic no matter if you reduce or increase them.
10. Agent attributes should have a higher impact on their presence and effects they provide.
11. Some Late game Integrity penalties should be implemented, maybe through Imperium, foreign soil effect or Politics. Now keeping the army integrity during the early game is difficult, but after some researches it become quite easy to sustain. I'll also change the 1st tier bonus of military research to something else rather than +2 Integrity.
12. Line of sight in foreign lands should be reduced (not sure if possible yet). This will resemble the absence of knowledge about the terrain, local population and enemy manoeuvring, making the invading force vulnerable to ambushes, flanking, surrounding and so on.
13. Offices will have their effects buffed to make them meaningful and give real power to the ones who hold them. Lower ones will provede Loyalty bonus, but the highest offices will give penalty to Loyalty, representing the corruptness and laxity, great power and authority gives. Only worthy and honorable men will remain your subjects, while the sneaky and susceptible may betray you. It was what actually happened to Flavius Orestes when Emperor Nepos made him Magister Millitum - he immediately betrayed him and seize the throne.
14. I'll see if it is possible to increase a little bit the corruption of wealthy Provinces and decrease it in poorer ones. It doesn't make that much sense, but will distribute the income flow more evenly between all your Provinces, so you won't just focus on upgrading a few. It will also push back further the time when your Empire will generate too much gold to spend and the Campaign will lose it's thrill. But we have to be careful with editing taxes and corruption so I'll first check out if it is even possible and then to balance it properly.

Battle updates to be expected soon:
1. Some naval units has less men then others of the same class for no good reason. The numbers will be flattened.
2. For unknown reason I can't reduced the constructed siege equipment to be 1 engine per 1 constructed during the siege. They always seem to come in pairs which is kinda dull. This cause the besieging force to have too much equipment after only a few turns. In order to counter this at least partially I'll increase the construction cost of the siege units. That will reduce the quantity in battle to adequate level. Now in some cases the siege force may have up to 20 ladders and towers after 4 turns which is too much and unnecessary. Hope that this wont cause the AI to prolong sieges of cities forever in order to build all units - I'll test it. It will still be better if we find out a way to make 1 constructed engine in the campaign the be represented with 1 siege unit on the battlefield.
3. Reduce the range of some elite Longbow units - now it is 175 m which is a little bit too much. They already do more damage, so such a great range gives them too much of an advantage.
4. Fleeing units should have a speed bonus - since they don't keep a strict formation and they run for their lives - which is a pretty good motivation. This should reduce casualties after the battle and will give the defeated force a chance to keep some effectiveness. Integrity penalty after loosing a combat will be reduced a little bit.
Last edited by Juvelira; 1 Feb, 2019 @ 3:00am
Emperor VI 1 Feb, 2019 @ 9:25pm 
Hi,

With your permission I would like to make the following suggestions:
1) Religious technologies of WRE disables some old techs. This should be removed.It should be a choice of a player what to build not dictated fact.
2) Some tweaks to the effects of the seasons. Winter less production of food (but Food shortage of this season should not affect public order but decreased income from agriculture). Autumn reduced movement points for armies due to rain. etc
3) Special Townbuilding which could replace Town Sanitation which would increase Fertility of the province. This would allow to specialise the province as Agricultural area.
4) All the artillery should be removed from the game. Histrorically they were rearly used and mainly during the sieges.
5) General bodyguard unit behaviour and effects should be overhauled. I suggest the following:
a) To reduce troops in the General's unit to bare minimum. This would represent entourage
b) To reduce the attack and damage of the unit to 0. Health to max as possible. This would mean that it won't deal damage and also not to die. To adapt behavior of AI in such a way that it never commits its own general to battle or targets opposition general. General should stay out of harms way. However, general's buffs should be reworked and increased, aura area should be whole battlefield. General's buffs should be dependent on its character.
c) General starts wavering and then routes dependent how much of his troops were lost and how dire situation is in the battelfield. Routing of general affect's his troops as if he died.
d) General's death should be consequence of the battle itself. If the whole army is destroyed then General also dies. If not then he runs away.
6) In this game there is fantastic opportunity to implement Supply system for armies. However, I have no idea if it can be modded or how AI would behave on the matter (but it can be done only for player). Idea is as following:
a) Each army consumes food from global supply. For instance, each unit consumes 5 Food per turn. This would mean that 20 unit Army will need 100 Food to survive.
b) If there is negative Global supply then Attrition hits the armies.
c) In order to negate negative Global Supply Raiding stance can be used. That stance is currently useless.
d) Unit's food consumption can be affected by the season

I am not a developer and have no experience modding, but I can see huge potential in your mod and more than happy to help with it in any way I can.
Last edited by Emperor VI; 1 Feb, 2019 @ 10:27pm
Juvelira  [developer] 1 Feb, 2019 @ 11:55pm 
Hi. first of all I wish to thank you for your detailed comment. It was not quite clear what all the Mod changes are because of the limited space the Description provides, so I have to cut some of the information.
1. So first Religious techs does not remove the old pagan technologies - this IS INCLUDED in this MOD.
2. It indeed has sense to add some tweaks to the Seasonal system, that's right. Now I did increase the effects of the different seasons based of the Vanilla game. However the variety of those effects are lame, so I'll bring it further to actually implement some tactical factor.
3. I'll think about fertility-increasing buildings. There are some already in the game, but since fertility is such an important factor in the game (and I intend to make it even more substantial) I prefer to be more careful with it - we'll see how it would work.
4. Yes, artillery is a ♥♥♥♥♥ in this game. I will remove the mercenary Onagers - they are stupid, and keep only recruitable artillery - so if you with there will be possibility to construct some, but maybe unlocked by a technology - especially for the barbarians. But the Huns actually used some catapults so they might keep their onagers. Sadly the game is not designed to create Catapults as a siege equipment like ladders and rams, but it would definitely make more sense.
5. Generals are kinda difficult to adjust properly, I admit. But your suggestions are a little bit extreme, some not possible and actually I don't have a clue how to set the AI to use their generals more wisely. Here I think you are referring to what General unit does in Ultimate General, which is nice idea overhaul but not suitable for Total War games.
6. The food/supply idea is brilliant, I came to the same conclusion as you did and I thought about it. Thrones of Britannia actually made it right (one of the few things about that game). I am very keen on implementing some food/raiding/attrition effects similar to it in this Mod. However it is not that easy. The "effect" options does not exist in the list to be set on units. Maybe it is possible to set Food consumption for Armies instead but that would mean that every army will consume the same no matter the size - which is dull. Once I finish with the other possible updates I'll test this idea as well.
Have a nice day and keep motivating updates! :)
Emperor VI 2 Feb, 2019 @ 2:06am 
About food/supply idea. What if you set a Food consumption for Armies and then adjust it by the number of units in it rather than setting Food consumption for Units. For instance basic Food Consumption of an army is 100. If there is one unit in the army Food consumption=100/20=5, if there is 20 units in the army then Food consumption=100/1=100. Something like this.
Juvelira  [developer] 2 Feb, 2019 @ 9:32am 
Updates currently on the Testing:
I. Campaign
#1. Public order penalties from occupation reduced.
#2. Immigration decrease slowly over time when taxes are set to Normal (in vanilla only higher taxes reduce immigration and it easily become a problem).
#3. Increase in upkeep, food consumption and maybe squalor to military buildings, but adding a few units as garrison forces provided by them.
#4. Buff to armour and weapon bonuses provided by weapon-smiths - so they would be useful.
#6. Looting and occupying will cause less Instability. This will remain the primary effect of sacking a city.
#9. Bonuses and penalties of Tax polices will be reduces further, so Changing taxes will be a viable option and not catastrophic no matter if you reduce or increase them.
#12. Line of sight of armies generally reduced. This will work for fog of war purposes in foreign lands, since you have clear vision on all yours and allied regions so armies don't need line of sight in your own territory.
#8. Removed morale bonus against eastern people faction trait of the White Huns - hope it will affect even autoresolve and they won't annihilate the Persian factions. We'll see if that is going to work.
#11. The 1st tier bonus of military research for the Roman factions will increase movement speed of armies (+5%) rather than +2 Integrity.

II. Battle
#1. Naval units number of men equalised and standardised similar to land units.
#2. I've managed to reduced numbers of siege vehicles on the battlefield per constructed engine during the siege. In vanilla 1 Siege tower and Ram result in having 2 units during the battle itself and now they will provide only 1. Ladders correspondingly 2 engines instead of 4. This results in less equipment available for the besieging force. Previously the AI just constructed dozens of Siege towers and Ladders which first of all they can't use properly and secondly this give the attacker enough equipment to take the city even after 1-2 turns in siege.

Also:
- Imperium penalties on upkeep slightly reduced ~10%. However high Imperium levels lower Integrity.

- Slight reduction to public order penalties from most mid and high tier buildings.

- Army movement range slightly increased (previously reduced to 50% of vanilla, now 60%).

- Seasons Overhaul - seasonal effects increased so that good and bad seasons will be much more important:
a) North Europe: Summers are great time, Public order will increase, fertility might as well, while the Winter season will be negative, and Harsh Winter devastating for the people. Campaign movement reduced during Autumn and Winter because of the mud and snow. Replenishment and fertility may decrease during Winter.
b) Mediterranean: Summer and winter provide average Public order effects, fertility might increase during Summer. Only Autumn will cause movement reduction. Replenishment and fertility might decrease during Winter.
c) Asia: Public order bonuses and penalties are small and are not of a serious concern.
Campaign movement reduced during Autumn and Winter because of the mud and snow. Fertility is affected by Bad Winter and Good Summer. Replenishment and fertility might decrease during Winter.
d) Africa and Arabia: Bad Summer gives negative Public Order because of the extreme heats but Winters are mild and won't cause penalties. Fertility is not affected by the seasons. Campaign movement and replenishment are reduced during the hot Summer.

- Some AI buffs in various difficulties lowered to be more suitable to the new Economy and Political features of the Mod like:
a) Bonuses to occupation resistance
b) Corruption reductions in higher difficulties
c) Tax bonuses
d) Every Attrition resistance
e) Chance and duration resistance of Plague
f) Sanitation bonuses
g) Building maintenance resistance
Result is less cheaty AI and more realistic various effects on the AI factions, while the enemy could still be challenging without breaking the game mechanics.


Last edited by Juvelira; 4 Feb, 2019 @ 4:29am
atriski 6 Feb, 2019 @ 9:24am 
Hi, some ideas here:

- make AI to colonize more. Now the world is almost empty.
- make AI more aggressive, I am using this mod with yours:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=573719662
and AI is really pushy. I recommend you to contact to author and ask a permission to use some parts so you would have one comprehensive mod.
- add more units to buildings! I am not suggesting anything major, but for example having one extra unit from infantry grounds would make sense and would not shatter the balance.
- make rebels weaker, and make then grow slower. Now rebels will have better units than you, and will generate army really fast, actually faster than you can build your own army!
- this is my favorite battle AI mod:
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1135304057
again, I recommend contact to author or simply you can recommend it to player.
- I am using weaker towers mod (working) and stronger barricades (not working). These would actually make battles more interesting when balanced properly for this mod.
- more factions! I dont know how easy this would be accomplished, but it would be nice to have at least one rebelling faction for each province. It makes me cringe to see Roman Rebels, West German Rebels or Eastern separatist. There are also probably only two revolting factions for Africa: Africa and Egypt. You see them in every game.

edit: I would also love to see this mod not as a completely remake, but some light upgrades so everybody can have easy access on this mod and it would be simply a nice upgrade than total rework.
edit 2: make army integration more important factor. Now only in early game you have issues with this, but once you tech a bit this problem disappears for entirely rest of the game.
Last edited by atriski; 6 Feb, 2019 @ 9:27am
Juvelira  [developer] 7 Feb, 2019 @ 2:42am 
Stuff to follow on testing next week:

Campaign updates
- Governors should cause some public order penalties to population with different religious beliefs that theirs like in Rome I's expansion Barbarian Invasion. And also the Governors should give some religious conversion based on their Zeal for example - something like that.
- Agent attributes have a higher impact on their presence and effects they provide.
- Offices will have their effects buffed to make them meaningful and give real power to the ones who hold them. Lower ones will provide Loyalty bonus, but the highest offices will give penalty to Loyalty, representing the corruptness and laxity, great power and authority gives. Only worthy and honourable men will remain your subjects, while the sneaky and susceptible may betray you. It was what actually happened to Flavius Orestes when Emperor Nepos made him Magister Millitum, he immediately betrayed him and seize the throne.
- Commerce in the Mediterranean and Middle Eastern regions should be more developed compare to Northern Europe or Africa. I'll think about some effects that might reduce commerce income in those remote areas. This will reduce the ability of Desert and Nordic factions to generate unrealistic amount of income from internal trading and make them rely on other sources, like raiding, sacking, craftsmanship etc.
- I found a very interesting feature. The time AI will ignore settlements after sacking it. I'm currently testing it. The idea behind this is that the AI is constantly sacking the a town over again for 3-4 turns until either take it or a rebellion occurs. This doesn't make much sense because the town wealth is too low and the AI doesn't get anything when sacking an already looted settlement, the upkeep of the force which assault the town will be 10-20 times larger than the loot itself - it is retarded. So no I set the duration between attacking the same town at 2 turns meaning the AI will do something else in the process - maybe strike at another settlement, maybe just raiding, no matter it will concentrate in doing useful stuff instead of wasting time on devastated region. Hope it will work well cuz this is an issue since the release of the game back in 2015!

Battle updates
- Reduce the range of some elite Longbow units
- Fleeing units should have a speed bonus - since they don't keep a strict formation and they run for their lives - which is a pretty good motivation. This should reduce casualties after the battle and will give the defeated force a chance to keep some effectiveness. Integrity penalty after loosing a combat will be reduced a little bit.
- Palatina guards will receive some melee attack bonus in order to make them tough during battle.
Last edited by Juvelira; 8 Feb, 2019 @ 1:58am
atriski 12 Feb, 2019 @ 7:00am 
Some more suggestion:

- can you increase demolition time? Now you or AI can smash everything in one turn.
- remove artillery ships. They are the most ahistorical unit in the game, and also they make East Romans Greek Fire galleys completely unnecessarry because catapult is OP.
- this is more demanding suggestion: but it is possible to respawn factions in certain areas based on random number? For example Romans failed permanently pacify Sahara, Caledonia and Arabia. Hence they never took them over. In this game taking over them is way too easy.
- instead of disabling legacy techs can you nerf Romes in some other ways? Like make cultural buildings more expensive to build?
- allow Romes and Parthia to have all settlement available right from the begin. Now if you really have money to build walled towns and maxium cities, good! These now become unlocked rather late and you need them right away! This wouldnt really add anything into game, but gives more flexibility for mentioned civs.
- roman britain is too weak, it always falls right away. One more army there would balance things out a bit and keeping it wouldnt be hopeless.
- navies should be more expensive. historically in this time period navies were very rare and naval battles even rarer.

edit: this is a bit more radical suggestion but here me out: divide town setlements into commercial and militarised setlements. It has always annoyed me how towns never have walls, like you have to upgrade it three times before you receive them! Instead of from tier 1 you have options to specialise into military settelement or commercial settlement. Militarised would have walls and more units, but would be more expensive, would demand more food and would stifle growth. Commercial would be opposite to militarised.
Last edited by atriski; 12 Feb, 2019 @ 7:09am
Juvelira  [developer] 12 Feb, 2019 @ 7:29am 
@atriski Some quick responses because I found what you suggest very interesting.
- demolition time could not be increased but I think I could add some cost to it instead of gaining some of the building's value.
- I also consider nerfing artillery ships but completely removing them in the next patch is also a possibility.
- You mean like African and Celtic tribes to rebel suddenly without loosing public order - no it would be something like an event script - like the Hun hordes spawn or the Berbers in The Last Roman - this is feature I can't make so far. But maybe I can think of some cultural public order penalty in the near future IDK.
- In the Mod disabling cultural tech is removed since ver 1, but I think i will be a great idea to buff the religious techs a little bit more and also add some penalties to the old legacy buildins and not complete remove them like in the Vanilla.
- The tech that unlocks Lvl 4 cities is not that afar from the start. I may consider making those towns and cities available from the start and adding other effect to this tech but I want to think this through.
- Britain is though to defend that's right. I often send 1-2 additional legions to beat the celtic tribes. But adding armies and units will alter the Startpos file which means no save compatibility. So no more help for Romano-Britains for now :)
- I find Navies rather weak and not particularly useful in this game. I might increase their recruitment time and cost but buff their unit size - for example 160 instead of 120. So that fewer and smaller fleets will emerge in the campaign but when they do they would pose a serious threat.

Additionally I'm making tons of new changes to increase the depth of the economy and political situation as well as some battle features, however not sure when each of the will be release.
I'm really keen on making Offices important and resources to give various faction- or province- wide bonuses and actually benefiting the owner not only with trade income. And Trade income is actually kind a stupid in the game because all of it is generated between the capitals of the factions, meaning if someone sieges your Capital (even if it has a port) you will lose all that income which is dumm as **** - can ruin the whole campaign and all the valuable resources you possess will become useless. Much better will be to decrease the wealth value of all resources but give them additional bonuses. Like Iron increasing armour of recruited units - cuz it is a fine metal for crafting, wood will increase ammunition, marble can decrease construction cost of some building types, furs, wine and gems could be treated like luxury stuff and increase a little bit the public order like in Civilisation games and so on.
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