Slay the Spire

Slay the Spire

The Elementalist (WIP)
lifetake 3 Feb, 2019 @ 4:33pm
My Feedback
So first this is a great time. I beat my first run with it and my second on ascension 1 as well as many rush runs which were intentionally lost just to find cards and I wanted to give some feedback and wait to play again till more work is done. To note I have not tested your mod at higher ascension levels so things I might find need balance may be wrong in that it loses a lot of value at later stages. Another note I have yet to find 1 rare card. It is a blue one and my guess is maybe it is a card that works better the more water you have up.

Good:
- The resource system is great. The fact that cards can have various effects is a cool design and gives a psuedo ice cream effect.

- The starting deck actually feels pretty good and useable something I was scared about with it not being the standard strike defend set up.


Balance:
- The starting deck is really good actually. A bit too good. I had no reason to be scared and the starting deck allows you to really abuse the first level and take on as many elites as you want. As well if you get at least alright deck do the same on the second level.

- Astral Form+ is really powerful (being specific with the upgraded form). This card basically makes it so you don't need to worry about all the elements. I spend 1 element and boost 2 others (or the same element). The moment I have this card I will sit at +10 for every element every combat as long as the combat isn't over quickly. This really takes away from the resource management your mod is looking for. As well makes your cards like Ignition that rely on high element totals really powerful and really easy to play for big hits. What I would suggest is instead of making it produce 2 elements having it cost 1 for the upgrade that way it is a easy to play resource generator, while the other specific forms can be your high in one resource generator. Another thing could be to make it a higher rarity card because currently it is the only reliable way to get resources to a high level. However, currently I think the character needs the card in its current state because element generation without it suffers.

- Reckless dance generates you way too much dexterity. It has literally the smallest downside being the possiblity of taking 3 damage over 2 turns, but can generate you so much dexterity till you get to the point that its generate you so much you can't use the ability. And since its a skill you can keep using it over and over again for even more and more dexterity gain till you are unhittable. The card is just so powerful for what it does. Best card by far.


Bad/Can be improved/Bugs:
- Stone to Mud doesn't get dexterity buffs or suffer from frailty. It will only generate 5 block no matter what. It will show the value as if it does, but then gain 5 anyways

- Momentum Doesn't always generate you an extra point of elemental energy for your second energy gain.

- it crashes a fair bit. Most likely because it isn't built for the current version of STS and I didn't downgrade.

- If you save and quit mid combat all of the element generation cards change what they generate (something I discovered because of the crashes). This might lead to a lot of save scumming by people, but idk if this is fixable.

- The rune generation card (forgot its name) when it generates will put the runes into your discard pool if your hand size is big enough. If this isn't intended I would suggest making you pick a rune like you would pick a power with the power potion

- The cards have so much on them. I'm reading a lot when I play this character. Near every non starting card has at least 4 lines of text and many have 5 or 6. You don't really have any simple cards.

- All of your elements are pretty straightforward and don't have a lot of variation to what they do. Fire does a lot of damage, Earth defends and does a little bit of other stuff, Water Weakens stuff and heals, and Air draws and gives dex. Your elements don't do a lot else and it makes runs a bit repetitive. So as you make new cards I suggest really diversifying what the elements can do.

- Everything revolves around the elements. Maybe make something that doesn't. Like how Defect has claw and all for one not revolving his orb mechanic.

- There is a lot of zero cost cards. And I just spam these to generate more elements in early combat. I especially spam them when I have astral form+ so that all this spamming just nets me more energy as well as mist. So yet again when you're making new cards maybe look to not increase the zero cost card pool too far.

- I would love to see a fire X element cost card. However if that is made ignition would for sure have to be nerfed in its fire generation.


Also I really understand this is a WIP so don't feel like I hate your mod. I really like it actually and see that it has a lot of potential and I hope you can make it really great and can't wait for the next update to it.

Edit* added some more feedback
Last edited by lifetake; 3 Feb, 2019 @ 4:50pm
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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments
Riyshn 3 Feb, 2019 @ 6:00pm 
I'll leave most of this to Hex, but you do have 2 points here that I know from earlier builds or talking with him that I can comment on.

Starting deck: Originally, the [Element]strikes only did 4 damage, to account for exactly what you're describing here. The problem was if you got an early Lagavulin it was basically an auto-lose, because it made the damage race nearly impossible.

Granted, this was with the previous version of the starter relic where you didn't have full control of what element it gave you, and had to work around the RNG more. (Old relic was basically Momentum, but for the first gain instead of the second.)

Runes: It is intended that it's possible to bypass the auto-mass-exhaust if you can find some way to remove them from your hand, yes.

I've also given him similar feedback on Rising Vapors as you did on Reckless Dance - I had a run with 3-4 of them, and even with the Tiring effect, 24 Dexterity and the Regen that came with it basically made me unkillable.
Blue Hexagon  [developer] 3 Feb, 2019 @ 9:05pm 
@lifetake Thank you for the extensive and detailed feedback. While I won't be going over every point in a response, I will be examining each one as I refine the mod.

If you are interested in seeing the current card plans, I just finished the list out to 63 cards (although not all of them are more than the most basic 'idea'.) If you'd like to comment on any there, you're certainly welcome to: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vdLs6StqjlOtqQk5fjTVerj2cLc1rHu9GOdHYNJVR6Y/edit?usp=sharing
lifetake 4 Feb, 2019 @ 11:42am 
Originally posted by Riyshn:
I'll leave most of this to Hex, but you do have 2 points here that I know from earlier builds or talking with him that I can comment on.

Starting deck: Originally, the [Element]strikes only did 4 damage, to account for exactly what you're describing here. The problem was if you got an early Lagavulin it was basically an auto-lose, because it made the damage race nearly impossible.

Granted, this was with the previous version of the starter relic where you didn't have full control of what element it gave you, and had to work around the RNG more. (Old relic was basically Momentum, but for the first gain instead of the second.)

Runes: It is intended that it's possible to bypass the auto-mass-exhaust if you can find some way to remove them from your hand, yes.

I've also given him similar feedback on Rising Vapors as you did on Reckless Dance - I had a run with 3-4 of them, and even with the Tiring effect, 24 Dexterity and the Regen that came with it basically made me unkillable.

Yea I don't really know how to change it the starting deck because the character relies so much on being able to generate elements, but in my runs and my many trying to find card runs I would not be scared of a single elite. The most scary one being as you said Lagavulin which is pleasant surprise because I honestly hate gremlin nob because I play defect a lot.

For reckless dance both of my runs for the final boss I was sitting at 27 and 39 dexterity respectfully. With most of my cards being armor generation and relying on blaze or ignition burst for damage I was pretty unkillable using Reckless dance.
Blue Hexagon  [developer] 4 Feb, 2019 @ 12:00pm 
@lifetake

Yeah, definitely sounds like Reckless Dance needs some balancing.

As for the starter deck, I was kinda thinking about just having two modes when starting a run with different starting decks. One which is easier (the current one) and one which is more traditional (generic strikes/defends.)
lifetake 4 Feb, 2019 @ 12:35pm 
Originally posted by Blue Hexagon:
@lifetake Thank you for the extensive and detailed feedback. While I won't be going over every point in a response, I will be examining each one as I refine the mod.

If you are interested in seeing the current card plans, I just finished the list out to 63 cards (although not all of them are more than the most basic 'idea'.) If you'd like to comment on any there, you're certainly welcome to: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vdLs6StqjlOtqQk5fjTVerj2cLc1rHu9GOdHYNJVR6Y/edit?usp=sharing

While it is tough to really say (especially about balance) because some things can look insane in theory as well being combined with cards like Reckless Dance or Vapors for that easy dexterity generation. But I'm liking the new themes I getting to see. As I said some of the elements did 1 thing and maybe a small extra thing, but some of your unimplemented cards like ember rush or whirlwind seem like great additions. to some themes.

Ember Rush: like that it is fire and not just deal damage. I also like that the game plan might be to just have 1 fire to use the card without pulling the burn and I haven't seen the exhaust pool used like this before

Whirlwind: thank you for letting air generate block. I would love to push a pure air deck, but being able to live is the hard part. The damage is there just not what this card gives. As well having some theming to it is great. Might be overpowered with Reckless dance because man could I generate some block.

Accelerant: So if you have low air its like putting poison on the target if I'm thinking of it rightly. Seems cool, might need more windburn cards (I saw that reckless dance change), but idk might be great in practice and outside theory

Erosion: So the earth thing is cool, but i really like the watercast as it allows you to play big things way easier in your deck and you have some really hard to play high cost cards(which isn't a bad thng)

Entropy: If you make some more not about the elements cards this could be really good for a deck about that. I like it.

Aegis: This can easily be 32(40) block off one card. And it stacks with our dex generation. This might need a small nerf. But like that it doesn't require elemental energy and yet again theory vs practice (I'm going to stop saying that now)

Tendril: I want to guess this is watercast 2 and not 2 energy. Either way its cool concept, but idk what its power is

Geomancy: yes this is great. Simple, but diverse to allow multi element decks build defense not just through the earth.

Ferruchemy: huh, that could be a lot of gold generation, but I really don't know. Could even be a downside taking away you stored earth energy for later defense.

Pressurize: I found body slam.

Inferno: I found Fiend Fire. There is some fire burst I hoped I find. The fire element needed it as well currently I see it as just a consistent damage with air doing way better in the burst area.

Frigidity: Well that can be strong. Theory vs.....

Quake: Well that can be strong. Especially with the water seeking cards. However I like the archetype of big deck

Glaciate: Fun time water can deal damage now which is nice. Pretty simple.

Zephyr: Sneko eyes dream. Don't think it has any other use

#59(no name): More offensive Rising vapors. Gets that passive defense to let you attack more, however as long as you play 1 defense card a turn rising vapors is better

Quadmire: Don't know why this was changed. Seems a bit passive now instead of losing earth.

Burning Soul: i didn't see a fire X burst card and as long as I don't see a fire X burst card I don't see the use of this. Why pay 2 energy to lose hp to gain elements you can honestly generate yourself. Like this is dangerous in a boss fight and too slow in normal combat.

Mirror Circlet: Guessing we put it on top of the discard pile, but there isn't a whole lot of cards I want to save. There is Rising Vapors and Inferno, but thats about it and idk if it even works with inferno since inferno exhausts cards

Aetheric shield: nice kinda like mirror image. works really well with astral form

Doubling Glass: Whats doublecast? My guess is the next cast is done twice which if it is cool.

Tsunami: I'd say make this reduce the card to zero if it is a lower cost. Next up this is a 1 mana draw whenever you do water stuff which could get dangerous. Water already draw a lot, so like more draw can get a lot going. Think like heat sink or dark embrace. Both cards draw for way harder things than watercasting.

One thing I have also been thinking about is that I think astral form should stay the same way, as currently I have found that it is the only reliable element generation in the game. And honestly might just be powerful because I can defend like a truck in front of it.
Last edited by lifetake; 4 Feb, 2019 @ 12:37pm
lifetake 4 Feb, 2019 @ 12:41pm 
Originally posted by Blue Hexagon:
@lifetake

Yeah, definitely sounds like Reckless Dance needs some balancing.

As for the starter deck, I was kinda thinking about just having two modes when starting a run with different starting decks. One which is easier (the current one) and one which is more traditional (generic strikes/defends.)

So if you do this I honestly don't know how you generate enough elements to do anything. Because currently your cards suck if you can't element cast them most of the time. You would have to add element generation to your decks, but then your decks are full of having to generate and spending. Basically you would be a bad defect. So then I think everything would have to get buffed. You would have to upgrade a lot of your cards to being able to be usable.
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