Space Engineers

Space Engineers

[EWE] Edens Wrath Engineering
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
zacrron  [developer] 30 Jul, 2019 @ 8:47pm
Balancing and Progression
Balancing the mod will be the most difficult task to complete. Recipes and Requirements can change over time to help balance items and blocks for survival/playability/feasibility.

My goal and approach is to create a mod that is challenging and rewarding, that provides variety and creativity, progression that is scalable not overpowering, and a new direction with production to allow players to become more immersed in the game play.

I need feedback from all players and servers where there are gaps in balancing for all recipes. Without active feed back from the community, improper balancing can lead to a difficult time or unenjoyable experience for all.

Ore Recipes are based off actual ores and their chemical composition with added values for their impurities. If there is a lacking element presence in the game this is something I need to know. More ores are planned to be added at another date based on what elements need help.

Component and Block Recipes Requirements, at the start of the mod, are arbitrary (base) numbers to get a feel for production and progression. I would like to go more indepth with Electronic Production and make specific components a little more unique to classes/groups of blocks.

If you have any suggestions for new blocks, ores, components, or revamps, post a comment with your suggestions, approach, desired goal, and overall impact. Provide numbers with the comment. Numbers help go a long way and give something to measure to understand where a problem or solution may be.
Last edited by zacrron; 30 Jul, 2019 @ 8:54pm
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Showing 1-15 of 17 comments
Fatsack 11 Aug, 2019 @ 8:32pm 
As you do progression you should add patches for other mods so that they use your ores and components. Then you could create a progression from basic vanilla SE stuff to things like energy shields and nanite constructors and lasers and what not.
zacrron  [developer] 12 Aug, 2019 @ 8:14pm 
That's the plan. Once I get the bulk of the work done, I'll be looking at making plugins/re-balances for a couple of the big mods. The way it currently stands most should just be able to plugin play with vanilla components. They just wont be balanced with the mod. I'm Waiting for DarkStar's weapon pack hes working on to hit the work shop.
Fatsack 6 Sep, 2019 @ 4:42am 
Have you looked at CCM? The were working on a community components mod where it's basically just a framework like you're trying to build. Would be smart to all work together. Many hands make light work
zacrron  [developer] 6 Sep, 2019 @ 4:49am 
Im a part of the ccm. Im providing all the textures and icons for the most part. This mod was created mainly for the server I manage. The CCM is mainly being balanced and headed by Gen. Im the one that source all the different types of ore for the mod while Gen focuses on balancing and creating SBCs for the mod.

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1527495509
Last edited by zacrron; 6 Sep, 2019 @ 4:51am
JLA 20 Dec, 2019 @ 9:50pm 
Hi Zacrron, as I've already post in comment section here is my fix to increase EWE compatibility with MES and other spawn with uranium reactor.

ISSUE
Fuel Rod system is a good idea but it cause issue with other mod and blueprint that use uranium reactor. It's better to convert all already inside uranium to uranium fuel rod so the reactor still working than adding fuel rod to every reactors in other mods.

HOW TO FIX
Short version:
Change SubtypeId of UraniumFuelRod back to Uranium and Uranium (ingot) to something else i.e "UraniumIngot"

Detailed version:

A. Physical Item
I. PhysicalItems_FuelRods.sbc
find these entry and replace them:
1. )
<Id>
<TypeId>Ingot</TypeId>
<!-- <SubtypeId>UraniumFuelRod</SubtypeId> turn it back to automatically convert uranium ingot in blueprints/spawns reactor to fuelrod -->
<SubtypeId>Uranium</SubtypeId>
</Id>
<DisplayName>Uranium Fuel Rod</DisplayName>
2. )
<Id>
<TypeId>Ingot</TypeId>
<SubtypeId>DepletedUranium</SubtypeId> <!-- NOT changed to differ from DepletedUraniumIngot and naming consistency (for uranium case only) -->
</Id>
<!-- <DisplayName>Depleted Uranium</DisplayName> changed to differ from Depleted Uranium Ingot -->
<DisplayName>Depleted Uranium Fuel Rod</DisplayName>

II. PhysicalItems_Ingots.sbc
1. )
<Id>
<TypeId>Ingot</TypeId>
<!-- <SubtypeId>Uranium</SubtypeId> changed it to differ ingot from fuelrod -->
<SubtypeId>UraniumIngot</SubtypeId>
</Id>
<DisplayName>DisplayName_Item_UraniumIngot</DisplayName>
2. )
<Id>
<TypeId>Ingot</TypeId>
<!-- <SubtypeId>DepletedUranium</SubtypeId> add Ingot keyword for naming consistency -->
<SubtypeId>DepletedUraniumIngot</SubtypeId>
</Id>
<DisplayName>Depleted Uranium</DisplayName> <!-- NOT changed -->

B. Blueprints
III. Blueprints_Composite_RadioActive.sbc
Replace All these entry, I use Notepad++ in this case:
1. (so we won't get Uranium Fuel Rod from composite Refining)
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="Uranium"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="UraniumIngot"

IV. Blueprints_FuelRods.sbc
Replace All these (so we will get Uranium Fuel Rod from Fuel Rod Assembly) (please follow this step! DO NOT replace uranium fuel rod first so get the ingot and fuel rod in same name):
1. )
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="Uranium"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="UraniumIngot"
2. )
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="UraniumFuelRod"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="Uranium"

V. Blueprints_AtomicActivation.sbc
I found that the Depleted Uranium's blueprints are so messed up in this file, because the <SubTypeId> of depleted uranium ingot from fuelrod and ingot are the same (DepletedUranium) and both of them have <TypeId> Ingots.
So I changed this file a bit and because I think it's supposed to activate the Ingot version of Uranium instead of the FuelRod version.

Replace All these:
1. (so we use Ingot instead of FuelRod)
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="Uranium"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="UraniumIngot"

2. (naming consistency for uranium case)
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="DepletedUranium"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="DepletedUraniumIngot"

3. (change the icon to use the ingot version not fuelrod)
Find what : <Icon>Textures\GUI\Icons\component\FuelRods\DepletedUranium_Icon.dds</Icon>
Replace with : <Icon>Textures\GUI\Icons\ingot\uranium_ingot.dds</Icon>

VI. Blueprints_Ammo.sbc
Replace All these:
1. (so we use Ingot instead of FuelRod)
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="Uranium"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="UraniumIngot"

2. (so we use Ingot instead of FuelRod)
Find what : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="DepletedUranium"
Replace with : TypeId="Ingot" SubtypeId="DepletedUraniumIngot"

VII. CubeBlocks_Reactors.sbc
Replace All this:
1. (<SubtypeId> UraniumFuelRod is no longer available, use <SubtypeId> Uranium)
Find what : <SubtypeId>UraniumFuelRod</SubtypeId>
Replace with : <SubtypeId>Uranium</SubtypeId>

TESTED [2019-DEC-18]
Of course I can give you the edited files if needed to fasten the process.
StormTAG 5 Jan, 2020 @ 5:36am 
I have a concern from a progression point of view.

Currently, all ship based mining drills require Motors, which cannot be built without an advanced component assembler. This means you have to go from survival kit all the way to advanced component assembler with hand drilling, which is frustrating.

Although not directly in the scope of this, this also affects the Daily Needs Mods, since all of those blocks require motors as well.

I would suggest, either a lower tier drill that just can work on parts from the basic component assembler (possibly also adjusting at least the emergency ration dispenser's recipe the same way) or readjusting so that motors can be built with the basic component assembler.
Devidian 21 Jan, 2020 @ 10:42pm 
Hi, great mod, i like the challenge. Just one thing i currently do not understand is why the projector uses energy even if its not functional built?! Makes no sense, its energy waste. I can understand that the projector uses all energy even with no blueprint active but when the projector is deactivated or atleast not functional built it should not consume any energy.
zacrron  [developer] 25 Jan, 2020 @ 7:09am 
Projector Energy issue is a keen coding issue. they did not set up the resource sink properly and i am unable to change this. Projectors are a late game block with the current setup.
zacrron  [developer] 25 Jan, 2020 @ 7:10am 
I am unable to edit any blocks from DN. This also means I am not allowed to modify or use components from DN.
Moogles 4 Feb, 2020 @ 8:00am 
Hi guys, still enjoying this mod a lot. I noticed that grease needed lithium though. Seems odd. There's my 2 cents :D
BarelyZen 9 Feb, 2020 @ 6:50pm 
@StormTAG, I completely agree with the level of concern that you raise about the late game appearance of motors. However, I do not believe it is appropriate to accommodate the ridiculous (intractable) decision that has been made about the progression placement of motors.

To drive home the point, elementary school children (4th Graders) make crude motors in early science class with nothing but wire and magnets as a teaching/learning exercise about electricity. These juveniles do this with nothing but their hands and some iron-age tools.

Put simply, the late game appearance of motors violates the suspension of disbelief for no rational game design justification. It is simply indefensible. As soon as one can make wire and find/shape magnets, electric motors (and electric generators) should begin to be available.

The only win-win solution path to preserve the design objective while not also being a cause of disbelief and the wholesale rejection of the EWE foundation is tiered motors. It makes perfect sense that power and miniaturization (volume and mass) would scale with technical capability.

There is a significant difference between "playable" and "enjoyable".

Objectively, can one play this (with motors in late game)? Yes.
Subjectively, is it enjoyable (with motors in late game)? No.

To frame the subjectivity, I temporarily suspend my own opinion and pose the legal fiction embodied in the Reasonable Person Standard. I think a reasonable person would conclude the restriction (measured against any design parameter) not only adds little value, but on balance, actually robs the game of enjoyment.

I will continue to morally support EWE because I believe in the vision. But I will, without hesitation or reservation, mod around this motor nonsense.
Last edited by BarelyZen; 9 Feb, 2020 @ 6:51pm
Clor 24 Dec, 2020 @ 6:22am 
SE has autopilot capabilities and therefore global logistics. In my opinion, it is worth arranging ore generation on the planets in such a way that it makes sense to build long-term mining stations and logistics. It is possible to refine ore in several stages, etc. In the meantime, these are all the same vanilla SE only with problems.
Xurm 1 Jan, 2021 @ 3:03am 
Hi Zaccron & other creators from this lovely mod.
First of all, Happy NY and a prosper 2021

now, my rebalance suggestions are:
1) Change the concrete block .sbc's to the one's from the add-on mod that you deleted.
Because: Some does not have the wasteland DLC, but still wants the concrete look, also it "autoskins" it to concrete whereas now i need to apply the dlc skin. Secondly, as a construction engineer, i can assure you that we put the Rebar first, then the concrete :)
2) Fuel Rods, please change the coppertubes needed for the fuelrods to the graphene tubes, because in Real Life, they use Graphite tubes as moderator in a nuke-plant...
3) If you are interrested, i have a list here somewhere with the densityweight (mass)of all elements, i can recalculate them all to 1L (volume) so you would have a realistic mass/volume in the container.
If you are more interrested, i can make a calculator so that a motorblock has the weight of his parts, who has the weight of his basic parts, who has the weight of those element-ingots/fluids.
Please let me now in what form you would like the output so it is easier for you to implement it in the sbc's without to much hustle...Because as now, it takes less mass & volume to build mainframes and motorblocks, to disassamble them at destination, which makes totally no cents. (pun intended)

Still love this awesome mod and i think this would make it Uber-awesome
Thx again for the time and effort you put into this!
zacrron  [developer] 1 Jan, 2021 @ 12:37pm 
@Xurm The other plugin that was removed were not my models and im not able to upload them in the main mod (migrated block types for ease of mod). The order of components for the Concrete was over looked, figured it be fun to try an insert the rebar after the concrete dried XD. I will flag the comments on the rebar and graphine tubes in the discord for adjustments on their recipes.

For mass and volumes, Drukenwok has been working on balancing some of these issues, however, some of them had to be altered beyond reality (mainly cryogenic fluids).

If you would like to help and contribute, your welcome to join the discord where more of the convos take place.
Last edited by zacrron; 1 Jan, 2021 @ 12:40pm
aepaen 15 Feb, 2023 @ 9:15am 
Hello,
First, I love fact that ores contain more or less realistic elements, that build materials are magnitudes more sensible than vanilla to build, however I still have questions, otherwise I guess I wouldn't write here so:

Is there any plan to convert more of DLC blocks (thrusters, wheels, rover cockpits..) to have similar parts in use as non-dlc blocks when EWE is installed?

I take that industrial assembler is left intact intentionally, but why it has old recipe for motors?

Currently cockpits are tough to get if you are short of anything that is needed to make led then display, are there any plans to add some -simple- cockpit or whatever that you can build when you got no gallium/indium without tearing things apart?

Making remote control which would be damn useful to have simple automated carrier between mineholes and main base is also very very towards end of tree, when you basically can afford flying everything-base.
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