Cities: Skylines

Cities: Skylines

Ploppable RICO Revisited 2.5.6
Chops 24 May, 2020 @ 7:44am
RICO Growables + Building Themes
So I just spent half an afternoon debugging why some vanilla buildings didn't load in my building themes. Turns out, I turned them into local RICO buildings (just getting to know the mod). As soon as I removed the RICO setting for them, they turned up fine again in the themes.
Maybe this is something to investigate. I didnt check if they would still grow, as I was just stunned at them being not there despite being vanilla.
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Showing 1-15 of 19 comments
algernon  [developer] 28 May, 2020 @ 4:29pm 
Sorry, only saw this now - Steam doesn't notify me when new discussion threads are created, only when someone posts in the main thread.

That's expected behaviour if you created local RICO settings for buildings and didn't set them to be growable - I assume that's what you did?

Once you turn them into RICO buildings (without tagging them as growable) then they're no longer growable buildings. Building Themes only works with growable buildings (because, well, that's what it does - no point in theme management for ploppable buildings), so it wouldn't be detecting them as growables any more (and correctly so).

I've started a write-up on growable vs ploppable[github.com] buildings on the wiki; I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm on the right track, or if I'm not saying things clearly enough, or am missing anything that you think is relevant.
algernon  [developer] 28 May, 2020 @ 4:31pm 
Also, with the 2.1 update, the mod's behaviour has changed so that when you create RICO settings for a building that's already growable, the RICO 'growable' flag will be pre-set for you. Hopefully that's more intuitive behaviour - I can understand if people weren't realising that before.
Chops 30 May, 2020 @ 2:30pm 
Thank you very much for the explanation. I will look out for the flag and see if that's what caused the confusion. If it's not I will let you know. :)
antzkillr 9 Jun, 2020 @ 6:48pm 




Originally posted by algernon:

I've started a write-up on growable vs ploppable[github.com] buildings on the wiki; I'd appreciate any feedback if I'm on the right track, or if I'm not saying things clearly enough, or am missing anything that you think is relevant.

There is a discussion on this very topic going on at the moment. If you have a look, it may help you be able to to clarify what is confusing people. I thought I had a handle on it, but from Avanya's explanation in the discussion, I apparently didn't understand how the new growable option / checkbox worked.

I'll look at your GitHub link and see if it makes sense to me.
Last edited by antzkillr; 9 Jun, 2020 @ 6:50pm
algernon  [developer] 9 Jun, 2020 @ 6:58pm 
@antzkillr Where's the discussion going on? As you suggest, I'd like to have a look to see what's confusing people.
antzkillr 9 Jun, 2020 @ 7:21pm 
Your GitHub write-up says:

Plop the Growables
“growables … will still be 'growable' buildings according to the game's code and will function accordingly. The normal limitations on which buildings can be growable (e.g. 4x4 maximum size) still apply, and the normal stats of the buildings remain unchanged from their defaults.”

In the discussion I referred to, Avanya says:

“Plop The Growables lets growables ignore the need for zoning and makes them act like historical buildings….
Historical buildings can still level up, but their appearance always stays the same.”

and

“If a growable is given settings with Ploppable RICO, it can still spawn randomly in a zone. When it does this, it behaves like a RICO building though, and is locked to its level and won't despawn if the zoing under it is removed.”

So am I correct to interpret and sumarize all this to mean:


DEFAULT BEHAVIOR

Growables spawn randomly on zoned tiles (game default).

WITH RICO

Growables made RICO-ploppable WITH growable option
- limited to max 4x4 tile size
- require zoned tiles to spawn
- will randomly spawn on zoned tiles
- will not despawn if zoning is removed
- will not level up (nor change appearance)

Growables made RICO-ploppable WITHOUT growable option
- limited to max 4x4 tile size
- do NOT require zoned tile to be plopped
- will not despawn when plopped
- will NOT level up
- will not change appearance
- will not randomly spawn on zoned tiles elsewhere

WITH PLOP THE GROWABLES

Growables
- limited to max 4x4 tile size
- do NOT require a zoned tile to be plopped
- will not despawn when plopped
- WILL level up (like Historical Buildings)
- will not change appearance (like Historical buildings)

?

Thanks.
Last edited by antzkillr; 9 Jun, 2020 @ 7:25pm
antzkillr 9 Jun, 2020 @ 7:39pm 
As I think about this, any updated guide to RICO should probably clarify the difference between what I call "pure" RICO enabled assets , RICO "compatible" assets and how either or both can be modified / over-ridden by Local settings. I understand it, but it took a while to get my head around it. I think new players are really confused, judging by the questions that sporadically pop up on the Forum.
Note, I'm only a player, not an asset creator, so I'm looking at Workshop assets and mods from the "receiving" end. Also haven't used PTG yet, so that may be why I'm a bit fuzzy myself. Thanks BTW, for your great work.

Last edited by antzkillr; 9 Jun, 2020 @ 7:42pm
antzkillr 9 Jun, 2020 @ 7:46pm 
Sorry again. I just read up the Plop the Growables and see there's four optional behaviours. Adds another layer of complication to my summary above, doesn't it.
algernon  [developer] 9 Jun, 2020 @ 9:33pm 
Yes, Plop the Growables does indeed have some extra functions that complicate it - nothing's simple, is it?

Your summaries above are mostly correct, BUT: Ploppable RICO buildings with 'Growable' selected will behave EXACTLY LIKE vanilla growables. That is, they do require zones - they will despawn if zoning is removed. They also DO level up and change appearance. Both of those changes, of course, are overridable by 'Plop the Growables'.

I think it's better to think of the following three categories:
- Ploppable RICO Ploppable
- Growable (includes both 'normal' growables and Ploppable RICO builidngs with 'growable' selected) default behaviour
- Growable (includes both 'normal' growables and Ploppable RICO builidngs with 'growable' selected) behaviour with 'Plop the Growables'.

Does that make sense?
antzkillr 9 Jun, 2020 @ 10:45pm 
Yes, makes total sense. However…

Sticking just to RICO

You said:
“Ploppable RICO buildings with 'Growable' selected will behave EXACTLY LIKE vanilla growables. That is, they do require zones - they will despawn if zoning is removed. They also DO level up and change appearance”

(Regardless of whether they’re plopped or spawn, right?)

Avanya said (in the other thread):
“If a growable is given settings with Ploppable RICO, it can still spawn randomly in a zone. […(my addition) …presuming the growable box remains checked.] When it does this, it behaves like a RICO building though, and is locked to its level”

So
Is there a difference in behaviour between
RICO ploppable (as defined by the author) made Growable (by checking the growable box)
[will level up and change whether plopped or spawned]
and
Growable made Ploppable with RICO (and checking the growable box)
[won’t level up and won’t change, whether plopped or spawned, per Avanya’s comment]
?

In other words, it depends on the kind of asset you’re starting with?

And if I take a Growable + “RICO compatible” asset (up to 4x4), enable the author’s RICO settings, and check the growable box, what happens? Does RICO treat it as Ploppable > Growable or as a Growable > Ploppable?

(Not doing this to annoy you ! Just examples of how the options can be confusing and what needs to be clarified for the average or NewB player)

Thanks for your time.
Last edited by antzkillr; 9 Jun, 2020 @ 10:46pm
algernon  [developer] 9 Jun, 2020 @ 11:34pm 
What Avanya said is perhaps a little out of date - there were (briefly) earlier versions where that was true, but now things are different (and those earlier differences were actually technically bugs).

There's now no difference in behaviour between buildings originally made growable and those made growable by the mod. By default, they *will* grow up and change. The starting kind of asset makes no difference.

Which I hope answers your next question - if you take an author's asset and override their settings (by creating your own local settings), then if your settings have it as 'growable' then it will be growable as far as the game's concerned (the Ploppable RICO Revisited ensures that the game never sees it as anything other than an ordinary growable building).

And it's all good - you're not annoying me! It's good for me to see where there's confusion. As a modder, I don't really get much of a chance to see what's going on from the 'user side' - for example, this mod currently has over 41,000 subscribers, but I've only every heard directly from (maybe) a hundred or so of those.
antzkillr 10 Jun, 2020 @ 6:07am 
Regarding the Wiki article(s), Guides, Manuals, Instructions or whatever ... I have a journalism background and editing experience. If you'd like a proofreader or a 'Beta-reader" I'm happy to assist.
algernon  [developer] 11 Jun, 2020 @ 6:56pm 
@antzkiller Thanks for the offer! It'd be appreciated if you could go over the current version[github.com] at let me know of any issues.
antzkillr 11 Jun, 2020 @ 9:16pm 
What's the best way to get edits, / comments back to you?
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