I’m also fairly new and now playing with Realistic Population for the first time. I feel the same way about the composition of the city. I wanted to create something different from the grids I’ve been using, but you need to spend a lot of time building dense, straightforward residential blocks early on.

I know from the excellent documentation that the shape of the demand and therefore your city is expected to be different; I just wonder, like you, whether this is the only way to play with RP. I’m planning to look for some YouTubers using the mod to build full cities… once I finish going through all the other C:S videos in my queue. At any rate, it’s been really interesting to take this patient, considered approach to growing my city, unlike in my previous cities.

Originally posted by a provoked kiwi:

Is it just me, or does it feel more suited towards players who have everything unlocked at the beginning?

It's not just you - after all, this is a realism mod, and there's nothing realistic about the game's default unlocking progression, which is designed as a tutorial system for new players to ease them into the game. The game designers themselves expect experienced players to disable the progression, which is why 'unlock all' is a base game option.

However, it is still perfectly possible to play with the vanilla progression; doing so is part of my standard testing suite for this mod, so I do so on a regular basis.

Originally posted by a provoked kiwi:

It didn't really hit me til my population was getting into the 2-3k mark, but I realized that the lack of high-density zoning, etc, basically meant that my grid-like "suburban" area(s) were essentially becoming my entire city, and that incorporating high-density housing and the typical "downtown/inner-city/metropolis" that eventually develops would become a bit of a logistical nightmare in terms of traffic and road hierarchy.

That is indeed the mod working as designed, mirroring the real world (specifically post-WWII urban development patterns seen around the world). Of course, if you want a different experience, it's easy to adjust.

Originally posted by a provoked kiwi:

I also noticed that as I hit the 5k population mark, many of my low density businesses were struggling to find workers. It was an issue solved by lowering the total required workers, and possibly caused by having more commercial zoning than necessary, but it's also something I never recall really having an issue with in vanilla.

Yes, it definitely sounds as though you overbuilt commercial; a fairly common mistake by those used to the vanilla game (which basically requires a shop for every 2-4 households - not exactly what you see in the real world). The wiki's guide on demand[github.com] has some tips for that. Basically, though, remember what commercial demand represents, and don't try to build to the commercial demand bar by commercial zoning only (remember your other sources of leisure to meet "commercial" demand, such as parks, and it's a good idea to leave the bar about half-full).

Lowering workers is a band-aid fix that doesn't address the underlying issue, and can cause you problems later; the best thing to do is to bring your commercial zoning back into balance.

Originally posted by a provoked kiwi:

I'm not a complete novice at this game anymore, but I also know I have a *ton* to learn, so I do wonder if these issues are just a lack of foresight on my part, but... for a 5k pop city, especially lacking apartments, etc, I feel like it takes up a LOT of real estate.

Yes, exactly! Low-density suburbia in real-life really dows sprawl and take up a lot of space, and is very expensive and inefficient to service in terms of infrastructure. The base game definitely glosses over this (much as it glosses over the infrastructure and transportation requirements of high-density buildings in the opposite way).

Originally posted by a provoked kiwi:

Bringing this full circle... am I the only one who feels this mod feels more at home when you have everything/most things unlocked to begin with?

No, definitely not. When I'm actually playing (as opposed to testing), I always use unlock all to give the best experience. It's quite common for experienced players to do the same, even without this mod - once you've gotten past the learning stage, the game's milestones tend to be just a hinderance to enjoying the game (of course, individual preferences may vary, so not everyone will feel the same).

Originally posted by a provoked kiwi:

Edit: By the way, for reference, 95% of my time with C:S was in vanilla without any expansions. I only recently picked up DLC during a Steam sale (After Dark, Industries, Park Life, Mass Transit, Snowfall) and decided to pick up a few mods while I was at it. So while I'm decently familiar with the base game, I'm a total greenhorn when it comes to DLC/mods. Probably doesn't matter, but maybe it's worth knowing for any responses you may have.

DLCs don't really change the core gameplay at all - this is not a game where DLCs are "required" (for any definition of the word); they just add extras on top of an already-solid base (unlike some other games). Mods, on the other hand - well, that's different, especially mods like this one which significantly change the experience!

I've already said some of this above, but some key tips I can thik of are:

• Think realism, not gamey - so forget about the ratios of industry:residential:commercial that you see in the vanilla game. Aim for what you'll see in Google Earth (or equivalent). Yes, seriously - look at real-world examples to guide you, more than the game.
  
• Don't be afraid to unlock all. If you're familiar enough with the base game, the progression milestones are just going to get in your way.
  
• If you don't use unlock all, you'll need to actively plan ahead for milestones (moreso than the base game), and it becomes a different experience to 'normal' gameplay. But it's still quite possible with this mod, even without custom assets or supporting mods such as Ploppable RICO Revisited.
  
• Just as in real-life, suburbia is a pain for uban designers. It takes up a lot of space, and its low density means that any services (e.g. public transportation, or even just plain roads) are going to be operating at a significant loss. It's up to you how much you want to push low-density surbia compared to more efficient options (the game, (un)fortunately, doesn't include the political elements that signficiantly affect these decisions in real-life).
  
• If your style is still to "build to the demand bars", you'll most likely need a better appreciation of demand, especially commercial demand and what it actually represents. This, incidentially, is still true even without this mod - once of my pet peeves is that the demand bars don't represent what most people instinctively think they do, and it gets a lot of players in trouble. The only difference is that with this mod the issues arising from over-building commercial or industrial buildings become visible much sooner than they do in the vanilla game.
  
• Just as in the real-world, high-density population requires high-density infrastructure! When you're ready to start introducing high-density development, plan ahead, and take it easy - build gradually, and spread things out. Only start infill when you're sure that your transportation networks can take it (as in the real world, requiring high-density housing to rely only on cars for transportation is a recipie for nightmares, for both you and your citizens!).
  
• Just as with starting the vanilla game for the first time, expect a learning curve. You won't get evertyhing right the first time, and it's a different balance from what you're used to. It'll take a little time for you to find the practices that suit you best, as everyone's playstyles and goals are different.
  
• Don't be afraid to rebuild large chunks of your city, and/or start over several times, until you get the results you want (the advantage of a city simulator over real-life!). And remember, even "failures" are learning experiences (and sometimes quite entertaining in their own right).

Wow, thank you so much for the thorough and thoughtful reply!

Originally posted by algernon:

It's not just you - after all, this is a realism mod, and there's nothing realistic about the game's default unlocking progression, which is designed as a tutorial system for new players to ease them into the game. The game designers themselves expect experienced players to disable the progression, which is why 'unlock all' is a base game option.

However, it is still perfectly possible to play with the vanilla progression; doing so is part of my standard testing suite for this mod, so I do so on a regular basis.

This should have been obvious to me, but I guess it never was. Even as a "somewhat advanced" player -- which doesn't feel right to say given just how vast the topic of city planning and building is -- I liked the idea of progression to ensure I didn't shoot myself in the foot by building too much too quickly. However, this makes me realize how skewed the game's progression is, as certain things really should be available from the start -- such as apartments or even offices.

I'll continue using my current city, which obviously has vanilla progression, as a testing ground... but I'm now pretty certain my future cities will use unlock all.

Originally posted by algernon:

Yes, it definitely sounds as though you overbuilt commercial; a fairly common mistake by those used to the vanilla game (which basically requires a shop for every 2-4 households - not exactly what you see in the real world). ... and it's a good idea to leave the bar about half-full).

Lowering workers is a band-aid fix that doesn't address the underlying issue, and can cause you problems later; the best thing to do is to bring your commercial zoning back into balance.

This was good to know, as it didn't seem like I had initially overbuilt it at all. I'll have to peruse that link, as I'm actually pretty ignorant of what the bars actually represent.

As for lowering workers, I only did it with certain assets that I felt were excessive to begin with; however, I think that could be solved by Ploppable RICOs (which I haven't downloaded yet) and more assets. For example, I thought it was kind of insane that a low-density pharmacy was employing upwards of 50 people, but that's not the fault of the mod; there's no real good reason why a local pharmacy would be five floors and resemble an apartment building or office in the first place, so it was just the growable commercial zoning picking lousy/inappropriate assets.

Originally posted by algernon:

Think realism, not gamey - so forget about the ratios of industry:residential:commercial that you see in the vanilla game. Aim for what you'll see in Google Earth (or equivalent). Yes, seriously - look at real-world examples to guide you, more than the game.

Hell, even some of the screenshots and videos I've seen on the C:S subreddit have been great inspiration -- sadly, they also make me feel like I have no idea what I'm doing, haha. As they say, though, Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'll just have to keep playing, building, and learning.

Originally posted by algernon:

If you don't use unlock all, you'll need to actively plan ahead for milestones (moreso than the base game), and it becomes a different experience to 'normal' gameplay. But it's still quite possible with this mod, even without custom assets or supporting mods such as Ploppable RICO Revisited.

I intend to add more mods and assets, which should help as I continue to develop my test city, but now more than ever I'm aware of the tasks ahead of me. I'm definitely going to have to put a lot of thought in how to start/expand on a more dense, urban/metropolis area from the point I'm at. I fully expect that my test city will crash and burn by the end of it, but hopefully I'll be prepared to start a fresh city using unlock all and have my best experience yet.

Originally posted by algernon:

]Just as in the real-world, high-density population requires high-density infrastructure! When you're ready to start introducing high-density development, plan ahead, and take it easy - build gradually, and spread things out. Only start infill when you're sure that your transportation networks can take it (as in the real world, requiring high-density housing to rely only on cars for transportation is a recipie for nightmares, for both you and your citizens!)

I think this was one big reason I abandoned some of my previous cities; it just became too much to manage and I guess I preferred to start fresh than put the work in to fix it. I think unlock all would help a lot with this, as I'm not forced to shoehorn in newly available transportation options into areas that are already too built up to support it.

Originally posted by algernon:

Just as with starting the vanilla game for the first time, expect a learning curve. You won't get evertyhing right the first time, and it's a different balance from what you're used to. It'll take a little time for you to find the practices that suit you best, as everyone's playstyles and goals are different. Don't be afraid to rebuild large chunks of your city, and/or start over several times, until you get the results you want (the advantage of a city simulator over real-life!). And remember, even "failures" are learning experiences (and sometimes quite entertaining in their own right).

That's the goal now. I'm hoping to lock in the mods/assets I'd like to use -- as well as settle on a good visual mod -- and stick with it for quite some time.

Anyway, thank you again for the reply, and also for the mod; after playing with it for a bit longer, I realized there's no way I could play without it. Maybe one of these days you'll come across a city of mine on reddit! :)

Oh, thank goodness I found this post.
I'm no newbie to city-building sims, I played SimCity for years and wanted to get back into them with Cities Skylines.
My mistake was that I thought I didn't need a tutorial. And that I should start with popular mods.
Like the thread starter, I used the progression mode. Because I didn't want to be overwhelmed with the possibilities.
To reach the 5k mark, I had to build two map spaces half full of houses. I also overbuilt commercial areas. Needless to say, infrastructure was a nightmare. And I couldn't get above 5.5k. The population shrank to 4.5k and never recovered. I played two games this way and got super frustrated.

I'm going to disable this mod for now and play some vanilla games until I really want a more realistic population and know what I'm doing. Also, I will definitely use unlock all then.

Thanks to the thread starter and the mod dev for all these insights and information.