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Team Fortress 2 >  Workshop > nano393's Workshop > The Shredder > Discussions
The Shredder
Description Discussions17 Comments682 Change Notes
squid 26 Feb, 2014 @ 5:10pm
Actually Reasonable Stats
This whole "Actually Reasonable Stats" thing is just something that I suppose I'll keep doing untill people get better at thinking. I don't mean to insult anyone; I am not saying that these people are stupid, or lack particular knowledge to the subject, but people just aren't being that creative, and then critical about they're thinking on subjects like these. Such as, and this is an example and not a direct quote, many people saying things like,"It should destroy buildings faster, but you get less health," I won't explain the fault behind this kind of thinking, but please be aware that such ideas are not particularly welcome here. This is a place for people with much too much free time, who can think critically, and originally. Please note that if your idea makes no sense hopefully people in this disscusion and I will try to elaborate with you how you got to your idea and with what chronology of thinking, and then hope to refine it. If your idea is absolutely the Bill's knees hopefully people in the disscusion and I will be able to help you refine it more. Or, possibly if you just happen to pass bye you can help others refine their ideas, and together we can come up with amazing stats, that maybe Valve will add into the game, or at least try out in a beta thingy. Hopefully this doesn't turn out like The Cogged Cleaner discussion, I got much too far out of my place, this time I hope to make ammends for my past self by helping others instead of hurting them before this disscusion fades away and Valve never adds a single community stat.
Last edited by squid; 26 Feb, 2014 @ 5:13pm
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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
squid 26 Feb, 2014 @ 5:12pm 
I had posted this in the other "stats" but I believe It was just swallowed up by all the spam.
So here's an idea to start the disscusion:

+Chews through sentry ammo quickly (rockets and bullets)
+Chews up metal from dispensers quickly
+Chews up teleporters making them take longer until repaired (after taking off the sapper)
-Destroys buildings slower
~Still takes two hits to remove
~Still disables sentries

The idea here is to decapitate an engineer's ability to build and repair, if played correctly the engineer can find himself without metal to repair his buildings, and his sentry without ammo to shoot or defend. The reason it destroys more slowly is because it takes away the sentries ammunition, the dispenser's metal, and the teleporters ability to teleport as quickly (until repaired) basically disabling them for another hit; the hit that allows the engineer to fill his sentry with ammo, or fix his teleporters back to full par. It would allow to the engineer to save his sentry, or the spy to sap and wait for the engineer to shoot or stab him. There are more ways to have a play style with these stats, but these are the ones that I had thought of at the time. Thank you for reading and please consider.

Also if these are the stats that are choosen (which is unlikely), please don't make it chew throught the ammo and metal TOO quickly or TOO slowly.
Last edited by squid; 26 Feb, 2014 @ 5:13pm
#1
Adawnby 26 Feb, 2014 @ 8:05pm 
My view of the weapon:

Pros:
50% Damage Bonus (Deals more damage to a building)
50% Building Effincency (While being sapped the building's functions slow down, the Sentry Shoots slower, the Dispenser dispenses health, ammo, and metal more slowly, and the teleporter's cooldown time is doubled)

Cons:
Cannot Disable Buildings
Only able to attach a maximum of three sappers (You will be able to attach another one if it is destroyed or the it destroys a building)

Overall the weapon would rush engineers as being too late can cost them their building, and the building will lost it's efficency while being sapped. However in order to prevent imminent spam destructions of multiple engineer buildings there is a limit (3) to how many you can place, making players think twice about which buildings to sap first. Also the building would not be disabled.
Last edited by Adawnby; 26 Feb, 2014 @ 8:06pm
#2
squid 27 Feb, 2014 @ 9:54am 
Originally posted by Dxdiag.exe:
My view of the weapon:

Pros:
50% Damage Bonus (Deals more damage to a building)
50% Building Efficiency (While being sapped the building's functions slow down, the Sentry Shoots slower, the Dispenser dispenses health, ammo, and metal more slowly, and the teleporter's cool down time is doubled)

Cons:
Cannot Disable Buildings
Only able to attach a maximum of three sappers (You will be able to attach another one if it is destroyed or the it destroys a building)

Overall the weapon would rush engineers as being too late can cost them their building, and the building will lost it's efficiency while being sapped. However in order to prevent imminent spam destructions of multiple engineer buildings there is a limit (3) to how many you can place, making players think twice about which buildings to sap first. Also the building would not be disabled.

First, the concept of this sapper doing more damage isn't an original idea, but perhaps you were hoping to get feedback on what people thought of the idea. In such a case I will simply start by saying that adding damage to the sapper is not too great of an idea. The most prominent reason for saying this is the Red-Tape Recorder (pre-patch), the Read Tape Recorder, a sapper, was able to almost instantly turn lvl.3 sentries into lvl.1 sentries in a matter of a couple of seconds. The same problem would occur with having a sapper that did more damage; the engineer's buildings would get destroyed so quickly that even if he is close by he won't be able to save his creations. much in the case of the Red Tape Recorder, where even if an engineer is baby sitting his sentry he will not be able to prevent it turning into a lvl.1. Well then, you may ask, "Why not simply nerf the damage?" the answer to that is there is already a sapper with nerfed damage; it is called the default sapper. The default sapper is perfectly balanced where the engineer will not almost instantly get the back-side of the hand, and neither will the spy. Basically, the idea you posted is the one that I was hoping to avoid in this discussion. HOWEVER, now that you (hopefully) realize what is wrong with that concept, you may be able to think of more original ideas that we can refine here in this discussion. Thank you for reading, and if you have any questions, please ask.
Last edited by squid; 27 Feb, 2014 @ 9:54am
#3
Genie 27 Feb, 2014 @ 2:06pm 
really
#4
numget! 27 Feb, 2014 @ 3:38pm 
I suggest a Sapper That does not disable sentries but instead "Grinds" their health up while producing a sparking particle effect and a grinding noise.
The sentries accuracy would be way off, as in scattergun range
I'm not sure how the dispencer would react, but I think the teleports would still work, however teleporting players would take damage upon using them and the tele would have the same "Grinding" Effect on thei health as well as the effects.
However it does the damage like fire damage (I.E. From 125 to 100 to 75 Etc.)

You know, cuz it's a grinder?
#5
Genie 27 Feb, 2014 @ 10:28pm 
grinder oh no
#6
noahdvs 28 Feb, 2014 @ 12:50am 
I think 25% or 50% more building damage and 1/2 sapper health would be fine (sapper is removed in 1 hit). I don't think it needs to be anything fancy.
Last edited by noahdvs; 28 Feb, 2014 @ 12:50am
#7
squid 28 Feb, 2014 @ 3:35pm 
Originally posted by noahadvs:
I think 25% or 50% more building damage and 1/2 sapper health would be fine (sapper is removed in 1 hit). I don't think it needs to be anything fancy.

Nothing fancy? What if every weapon should only have slight variations in damage and accuracy? like in BF4? Or perhaps CoD? The major urgency for original ideas is because if we only slightly variate weapons like in today's modern shooters, then we will have only a very few weapons to select from. However, TF2's weapons, involving original ideas and concept based off of original ideas and concepts in the game provide a enormous quantity in weapon possibilities. Wepons such as the Daimondback, the Rescue Ranger, the Soda Popper, the Le'Trange, and so on. Saying that it needs to be nothing fancy isn't somewhere we should put our minds, think of something original, please desist in posting things like, "more damage, and no disabling", for I have already explained what is wrong with increased damage, and not disabling the sentry would cause the sapper to be useless in any scenario where the engineer is near his sentry, which is extremely often. Not meaning to insult anyone, but rather to hopefully increase the quantity of original ideas, but your posting the same ideas does not help further the cause of addding these stats into the game, just as well, creating an idea without critically thinking about it causes the idea to be overpowered, such as increased damage on sappers, or a needless hinderance to a weapon to attempt to balance it, such as no longer disabling sentries, or no random critical hits. Just remember to think critically about what you're going to post before posting it. Thank you for reading.
#8
noahdvs 28 Feb, 2014 @ 3:43pm 
Originally posted by TheSquidAssasin:
Originally posted by noahadvs:
I think 25% or 50% more building damage and 1/2 sapper health would be fine (sapper is removed in 1 hit). I don't think it needs to be anything fancy.

Nothing fancy? What if every weapon should only have slight variations in damage and accuracy? like in BF4? Or perhaps CoD? The major urgency for original ideas is because if we only slightly variate weapons like in today's modern shooters, then we will have only a very few weapons to select from. However, TF2's weapons, involving original ideas and concept based off of original ideas and concepts in the game provide a enormous quantity in weapon possibilities. Wepons such as the Daimondback, the Rescue Ranger, the Soda Popper, the Le'Trange, and so on. Saying that it needs to be nothing fancy isn't somewhere we should put our minds, think of something original, please desist in posting things like, "more damage, and no disabling", for I have already explained what is wrong with increased damage, and not disabling the sentry would cause the sapper to be useless in any scenario where the engineer is near his sentry, which is extremely often. Not meaning to insult anyone, but rather to hopefully increase the quantity of original ideas, but your posting the same ideas does not help further the cause of addding these stats into the game, just as well, creating an idea without critically thinking about it causes the idea to be overpowered, such as increased damage on sappers, or a needless hinderance to a weapon to attempt to balance it, such as no longer disabling sentries, or no random critical hits. Just remember to think critically about what you're going to post before posting it. Thank you for reading.
First of all, I don't think all weapons need to be "nothing fancy," just this one because of how it looks. Second, original isn't always best or even good. Your idea is different from all the existing sappers, but why would I use it? Sentry ammo takes no time to replenish. Removing metal from dispensers is kind of annoying, but that's the only good part, assuming there aren't any ammo boxes around the dispenser. Slowing down teleporters is pretty useless because it doesn't destroy them. The RTR at least downgrades them so that the engineer has to waste time upgrading them again. This doesn't even do that. 2 hits, repair, no problem.
#9
Genie 1 Mar, 2014 @ 9:58am 
merasmus:happy halloween everyone
#10
Nycresim 5 Mar, 2014 @ 7:14am 
My ideas for the sapper is:

Pros:
Slows down the sentries reload (if it's a lvl 3 sentry) and makes the sentry reactions slower
chews up metal from dispensers quickly
Slows down a tele and will damage players
Will damage the builds slowly

Cons:
Won't disable builds i.e sentry
Causes loud grinding noise
Will damage you if you are too close or standing on it
-20 movement speed while carrying

These are my ideas you don't have to use them and I am open to criticizations

:sentry:
Last edited by Nycresim; 5 Mar, 2014 @ 7:15am
#11
Genie 5 Mar, 2014 @ 8:11am 
merasmus:son of a
#12
Flaccid Flamingo 18 Mar, 2014 @ 2:16pm 
Think your idea is wonderful op, like the idea of it "chewing through ammo, because lets be honest, the ammo on a sentry can run out quickly if not watched.
#13
Majora4Prez 13 Jul, 2014 @ 10:20pm 
Sorry this thread didn't exactly go where you intended, but I think this is an excellent idea.

Have you ever heard of TF2 Tightrope? It's a TF2 community with a forum that created a server mod called "Project Beta" that tries to balance weapons and make them unique while also testing a few new weapons. TF2 Tightrope is populated by people who actually understand both Team Fortress 2 and game design in general, so you'd probably find a lot more success trying to introduce new, unique, balanced ideas there than you would on the Workshop or SPUF. I mean, no one on TF2 Tightrope has ever seriously suggested, say, that the Scout get a Desert Eagle or the Sniper an AK-47.
#14
squid 14 Jul, 2014 @ 6:23am 
Originally posted by Majora4Prez:
Sorry this thread didn't exactly go where you intended, but I think this is an excellent idea.

Have you ever heard of TF2 Tightrope? It's a TF2 community with a forum that created a server mod called "Project Beta" that tries to balance weapons and make them unique while also testing a few new weapons. TF2 Tightrope is populated by people who actually understand both Team Fortress 2 and game design in general, so you'd probably find a lot more success trying to introduce new, unique, balanced ideas there than you would on the Workshop or SPUF. I mean, no one on TF2 Tightrope has ever seriously suggested, say, that the Scout get a Desert Eagle or the Sniper an AK-47.

I am looking this up right now.
#15
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