c_brene b_brene Brehna
b_toporo Stropkov
b_koporna Krupina

( b_decin Děčín tribe Děčané
c_zatec Žatec žatva, žnec, dožínky )

OK, let's look at it.

---

c_brene and b_brene as "Brehna"

You're right, it might actually represent that town, so I edited the name:


("Brehna" is obviously a German variation. I'm gonna create a better name for it later.)

---

b_toporo as "Stropkov"

Again a good catch. Here I even totaly forgot that I that I didn't find it on the map, so I'm changing it to:

---

b_koporna as "Krupina"

No, here I have to disagree. Of course it technically is the "Krupina" town, but the name was originally German (Karpfen), which was changed to Latin (Carpona), then adopted by Hungarians (as Korpona) and then adopted by Slovaks (as Krupina).

As you can see, the true translation of the name derives from the original Karpfen, which means:

---

b_decin as "Děčín"

Here I guess you don't like my Slovak variation of "Děčín" as "Ďačín". In the Current holding names list[mchn.wz.cz] I have explained it as: named after a person named "Ďak" (read "dyak") or someone like that; the tribe Děčané/Ďačané are named after the same person.

Also in Czech or Slovak, if a town or village is named after a tribe or any kind of unusual culture group, they don't end the name with "-ín" (see Děčín, Hodonín, Těšín), but with "-y" (see Doudleby, Švédy, Drážďany).

The Slovak variation of "Děčín" is "Ďačín", because pure Slovak doesn't have "ě" symbol, so it would have to be either "Dečín" or "Ďačín" and I choosed the latter, because the town name was originally "Ďačín" (1128) anyway.

---

c_zatec as "Žatec" from "žatva, žnec, dožínky"

Again, big no. In the Current holding names list[mchn.wz.cz] I have explained it as: the original name was "Zaczeczie", which derives from "Za Čechmi", which means "Behind Czechia"

It sometimes happens that the name changes so much that you can see something else in there. For example, there is a Czech village named "Písečná", which most people thinks derives from "Písek" (Sand), but no, if you look at the name history, you'll find out that it actually derives from "Písař" (Scribe). Something similar happened with "Žatec", because when it become part of the Czechia, that name sudenly stop making sense, so it has developed quite drasticly.

---

Still, thank you for your imput. :)

xxslimagxx has written in the comments:

Please do not translate from Czech to Slovak and vice versa. The city of Nitra was never called Nútra. Zittau-Razava is nonsense ( https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%BDitava ). Could you please also make the names of the duchies and kingdoms?

For Pomerania, Kashubian might be better. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Slavic_languages

My answer:

---

Uh, this is awkward... I'm so glad that I have you here, because you're currently the only one who seems to actually care about the quality of the translation. I wish more people here would be like you. Really.

That's why it hurts me so much to disagree with you over and over again.

As I have written in the description above, this is a " semi-historical " mod and one of things I'm doing when translating the names is to remove the needless influence of the other cultures when forming the name.

For example, in the original game there is a Czech holding called "Rožmberk", which is obviously the Czech variation of the German "Rosenberg". I still translated it as "Růžová hora".

The same goes for "Nitra", which I also don't really like as "Nútra", but that's just how it is. Nitra is the Czech name (of the river, originally) and the Slovaks only took it over, just as we did with the "Rožmberk" (which was also never called "Růžová hora").

I can't stop doing this, because then there is no clear line what to translate and what not to.

Right now I'm struggling with the Croatian/Bosnian, which seems to have the same relation as Czech/Slovak. Should I not translate them between each other just because of that? Because I don't think you mind that I translated Czech "Žďár" as Slovak "Ždiar", because that was an obvious choice.

However, just for you, I didn't like "Nútra" anyway, so I'm changing it to "Nitra" if you say so, but not the other holdings. They're not that famous, so that's a different story.

Also about that Kashubian...

I'm changing my original answer here (if you happened to catch it before I deleted it), because I actually look it up and changed my mind.

I'm not changing Pomeranian to Kashubian, because it's not a Bohemian language.

I know that it's my fault for not using the oficial terms or the generaly believed ideas, but it seems you're missing the insight of the whole concept.

In the past, Czech, Slovak, Silesian, Sorbian, Polabian, Pomeranian and others were dialects od the same language, which I'm calling Bohemian.

Polish language was always different from them and it had its dialects too, which was (beside others) Kashubian.

Today, Kashubian is a distinguished language (just like Slovak or Silesian), but it really isn't as similar to Pomeranian as I originaly thought it would be.

I don't care if someone set it next to Pomeranian in the language tree, just one look at it and I can tell it's even more different than some South Slavic languages (when it comes to the inner structure).

As I said before, I really appreciate your interest, and that's why I've originally believed you, but it really seems we're not only on the same page here, we might be on a different book or even on a different library.

---

I hope my answer didn't upset you. I'm really sorry for being a such pig-headed person, but despite that I really ap

The translation of German and especially Hungarian names is fine.
I would be careful with Slavic names. 1000 years ago, (Western) Slavs spoke almost the same language.
Žďár-Ždiar is absolutely fine. I don't like Žitava-Ražava, Wraclaw-Bratislava.
I would not translate old pre-Slavic names (Celtic, Markoman, Latin, Indo-European). These are, for example: Nitra, Praha, Opava, Labe, Vltava. But I would keep the German and Hungarian translation (Bratislava-Pressburg-Pozsony, Praha-Prag).

I would also be very sensitive about Croatian, Bosnian and Serbian. These languages are almost the same.

Could you please also translate the names of the duchies and kingdoms? Lower Silesia looks weird on the map.

I was also surprised at how different Kashubian is.

As I know, Polish was still quite different even 1000 years ago, but not as much as it is now. (For example, it still had long and short vowels. It was actually lost quite recently.) But I don't think that's the problem here.

In a sense, I don't think your opinion is wrong. At some point I also had to decide how much should I change the names when translating and I have just chosen the other option, because it's more informative.

It's only about how much information you actully have, really. That makes what you can see in the words.

In case of "Nútra", if it was some kind of forgotten village somewhere, I don't think you would care, because it does follow Slovak style and you're more likely to figure out it derives from "Nútro" ("Nitro" in Czech).

I'm actually keeping the trans-language names, if they're famous enough. For example, "Drážďany" are still "Dresden" in German, because they all know what it is and it's an important name to them, but I can't be so lenient all the time, because the mod then wouldn't really matter.

Your problem is, that you can see "Žďár"/"Ždiar" as the same, but you can't see "Vraclav"/"Bratislava" as the same. But they're both from "Vratislav", which was the original name of both towns/cities. I can see it, so I'm translating it. The Czechs changed it in one way and the Slovaks in another. Also the Poles made their own changes of the same name to "Wroclaw".

It's just a game, so if a Polish culture have the holdings (there're currently 3 of them), it's always "Wroclaw" (masculine), Czech culture "Vraclav" (feminine), Slovien culture "Bratislava" (feminine).

Slovak is quite a new language and, I don't want to be rude, but when your ancestors determinated to emerge as a nation, they didn't do a really good job. "Bratislava" was called "Prešporok" until 1919, only then the name "Bratislava" was created from the old name "Vratislav". Yes, it was created, pretty much the same way I did it. But they forgot "Nitra", "Žitava" and many other names, because they were all too much influenced by Czech to notice it's off.

So, again, I understand your point, so I don't really think there is anything you can do to change mine, but there is way more to it than you currently thinks. I carefully study every single name before the translation and even if I do mistakes here or there (that's also the point of those "Suggest name" section), I know what I'm doing.

Maybe you could actually check the Current holding names list[mchn.wz.cz] to see how large this actully is.

---

And I'm not doing the names of duchies and kingdoms.

At least for now. If I ever translate them, I'll translate them all to English only, because fully translating even that seems weird to me.

As long as this is game main language is English, then all the higher titles should be in English, if you play it in German, the higher titles should change to German and so on.

But if you're in contact with some kind of group doing some general Slovak translation of the whole game, I wouldn't mind to translate the supported duchies and kingdoms for you, but not as a part of this particular mod.

I hope I've answered all you wanted to know.

After the war, my grandfather moved from Nitra to northern Bohemia, not far from Žitava :) Many towns and villages were renamed after the war. Some few (Schluckenau-Šluknov), others completely (Georgswalde-Jiříkov).

The city of Nitra is definitely named after the river, which was originally probably called Nútra.
http://ladislavbarabas.blogspot.com/2011/03/povod-hydronyma-nitra.html
In the times of Great Moravia, the name Nitra was already used.
https://is.muni.cz/el/1422/jaro2015/MP201Zk/um/web/doc/stredovek/Papezska_bulla_Industriae_Tuae_880.pdf?lang=en;ukaznahled=51

The name Žitava was also known during Great Moravia. It was called the river flowing through the city of Nitra.
http://www.zitava.sk/historia-pozitavia/zitava-ajej-pritoky-vdiele-branislava-varsika

https://sk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoznam_historick%C3%BDch_n%C3%A1zvov_Bratislavy
Bratislava, Vratislava, Braslav, Vratislav

Wrocław-Vratislav

In the time of Great Moravia, Czech or Slovak language not exist.
In Praha, Veligrad and Nitra they called cities the same way.

Of course, there is a Czech translation, but it's not my work. My English is bad.
https://jajjun.com
http://forum.jajjun.com

I have already translated the names of the duchy and kingdom in my game. I've been working on a similar mod, but yours is better.

Still not getting my point I see. It's funny how you can get all the data gathered, but miss what I'm trying to tell you.

At first, yes, I'm pretty much aware of the fact that "Bratislava" might have come from "Břetislav" and not necessarily from "Vratislav". I had to choose one and I did and unless you come with something unforeseen I won't change it. (Not that I would call it "Bratislava" in Czech even if I did change my mind though.)

And yes, surprisingly, "Žitava" was called "Žitava" even in the past. It's the Slovak word "Raž", which is new, just like Sorbians used to have the word "Trh" in the past, but now they call it "Wiki" (yes, it's funny, but it actually means "Market" in Upper and Lower Sorbian).

I could have keep it (historically) as "Žitava", but I named it "Ražava", because then the meaning comes across better, which was my point. Even if you're an average Joe with an IQ 100, you can figure out what "Ražava" means. "Žitava" is a bit harder, if you're Slovak.

---

But hey, if you were working on your own mod anyway, I endorse you, go for it.

As I said, I think that your way of looking at it is just as good as mine. It's just another path I decided not to take and I think there's definitely gonna be people, who will find your version better.

You can take all the data from my mod that you consider good and change what you think should be changed. I don't mind at all, I can even link it as another version here.

Originally posted by Nikdo:

Also about that Kashubian...

I'm changing my original answer here (if you happened to catch it before I deleted it), because I actually look it up and changed my mind.

I'm not changing Pomeranian to Kashubian, because it's not a Bohemian language.

I know that it's my fault for not using the oficial terms or the generaly believed ideas, but it seems you're missing the insight of the whole concept.

In the past, Czech, Slovak, Silesian, Sorbian, Polabian, Pomeranian and others were dialects od the same language, which I'm calling Bohemian.

Polish language was always different from them and it had its dialects too, which was (beside others) Kashubian.

Today, Kashubian is a distinguished language (just like Slovak or Silesian), but it really isn't as similar to Pomeranian as I originaly thought it would be.

I don't care if someone set it next to Pomeranian in the language tree, just one look at it and I can tell it's even more different than some South Slavic languages (when it comes to the inner structure).

As I said before, I really appreciate your interest, and that's why I've originally believed you, but it really seems we're not only on the same page here, we might be on a different book or even on a different library.

---

I hope my answer didn't upset you. I'm really sorry for being a such pig-headed person, but despite that I really ap

I don't understand why you are claiming that Pomeranian (let's for the sake of argument assume there even was a single Pomeranian language) is a Bohemian language. I did not look past Wikipedia here, but it confirms my understanding of the matter, which is that Kashubian, Slovincian, and Polabian (all languages of Pomerania) are Lechitic languages, not Bohemian. Since Slovincian and Polabian are now extinct, making Kashubian the default, makes the most sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lechitic_languages#Languages

Llewelyn_MT:

Please, don't be so nitpicky. This is just a game and this discussion is supposed to be about "suggesting names". We've got a bit off topic with xxslimagxx, but he was actually suggesting something with that, so it was fine, this clealy isn't.

But just for you, the term "Bohemian language" is my own term to describe all the old languages/dialects way too similar to today Czech to fully distinguish them. I understand it's not that easy, especially since almost every village had their own "flavor" in speech, but I'm not here to argue about that.

Kashubian is way too different to be considered part of this 》unofficial《 category. The end of the story.

(And I expect this vague Pomeranian to be a "Bohemian language", because the actually names of towns/villages suggest so.)

P. S. I'm reading it again after myself and maybe I'm just too tired from today's work. I'm unable to answer without sounding a bit aggressive, I'm sorry about that. I just don't want to talk about it here, so if you're still interested, please P.M. me.