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You can look at the Current holding names list[mchn.wz.cz] and look for something that sounds off (all the current Polish names are either natives or made by me, so there must be something).
Fully empty are b_domazlice and b_costesti, but I don't know the meaning of the latter, so it's going to stay empty for now.
And please understand that I'm also changing the language hybrids, so for example Pomeranian "Wolgast" is "Wolgoszcz" in Polish, even though you're using the original name in the real world. It's for the sake of unity and the general understanding. Thank you.
About the name "Wolgoszcz", according to Polish wikipedia, historically we used the name "Wołogoszcz". In the 19th century's Polish dictionary the name used for the city was "Wolgoszcz" indeed, but according to wikipedia the name "Wołogoszcz" is preferable. Also, it has a specific Polish letter "ł" so for me it's more accurate.
Děčín as Dzięczyn & Žitava as Żytawa --> I just want to say that these sound awesome in Polish.
1)Bezděz as Bezdziadz --> I don't think we would use "dz" at the end of a word. It should be more like "Bezdziad" but it sounds funny for Polish language users because "bez" means "without" and "dziad" means "an old lazy man" basically, so I propose sth like "Bezdów", "Bezdzied" or "Bezdowo". Don't worry about "ów", the focus is on "Bezd" and "ów" is just a typical Polish ending for cities (e.g. "Krak(ów)" or "Lw(ów)").
PS@ I later noticed that you had provided etymologies, so this name I made up without knowing the etymology. But I still think that "dziad" in the name of a place sounds immaturely in Polish :P
2)Litoměřice as Lutomierzyn --> Polish wikipedia says "Litomierzyce" is Polish equivalent.
3) Žatec as Zaczeszie --> Unfortunately, I don't think we use "szie" at the end of words in Polish at all. It sounds more like Ukrainian or Russian to me. I recommend "Zaczechów"/"Zaczechowo"/"Zaczech".
4)Stříbro as Srebro --> Sounds good, but for a name of a village/city I would prefer "Srebrowo" or "Srebrów" just to indicate that it is a place of living. For example, as you are Czech you probably know the word "Złoto" (gold) as I hope it is similar in Czech language. So in Polish we don't have a single place called "Złoto", but we have 10 villages called "Złotowo" and 2 places (1 village and 1 city) called "Złotów". See the pattern :P?
5)Domažlice --> Thanks for providing the etymology. So in Polish it would be sth like "Domożylice".
6)Prácheň as Próchno --> Again, the translation is fine, but I would suggest "Próchnowo" with the specific ending "owo". We have a village with that name in Polish actually so it would fit.
7)Písek as Piasek --> Piasków :P
8)Doudleby as Dulaby --> I suggest Dułaba, this "l" sounds strange to me a bit. We often change "l" into "ł", for example the river Visla is Wisła in Polish, with "ł".
9)Růžová Hora as Różowce --> Różowce sounds awesome, but if it refers to a mountain it also can be "Różana Góra" in Polish. We do use "góra" in the city names, for example one of the biggest Polish cities is called "Zielona Góra", and there is also quite big city of "Jelenia Góra", so it is not so unusual.
PS@ There is a division between pink mountain and rose mountain in Polish. The first one is "różowa góra" and the second one is "różana góra", the latter I proposed. I checked how the google translator will render these two from English into Polish and Czech. In Polish the division is preserved, but while translating to Czech there is no division, both are translated as "růžová hora" so I guess there is no division in Czech and therefore I suggest changing Różowce into Rózana Gora as it sounds nicer in my opinion and is etymologically correct.
10)Kroměříž as Kremż --> Polish wikipedia provides two Polish equivalents: Kromieryż or Kromierzyż. I suggest using the second one.
Before I look through the rest, could you please tell me if you need that help at all? Making up these names is quite fun but before I spend more time on it I would be happy to know if it's helpful at all. Also, if you would want my suggestions, do you prefer me to provide an explanation for my choices? Thanks for your work, is already very impressive.
b_beroun as Bieruń --> Bieruń is fine, but if we want to be strict to the etymology, the Bohemian "Brn" meaning mud/dirt sounds like Polish "brud" which also means mud/dirt. So maybe Brudów/Brudowo or Brudnica (similar to Polish city Brodnica)? I would go for Brudnica.
b_melnik as Mielec --> Actually I was born in the real Mielec in Poland :P. The etymology of Polish Mielec is actually the same as the Cech Mělník, but as far as I remember there is a possibility to build a city of Mielec in CK3 so we would have 2 Mielecs on the map. Instead of "Mielec", I suggest using "Mielnik", wikipedia says it's Polish equivalent of the Mělník. Just to avoid repetitions. (oh wait, is this b_melnik referring to the Cech Mielnik or Polish Mielec? I am confused, not sure whether there are 2 Mielecs in the game now or just 1 :P If there is one, obviously I'm suggesting the name "Mielec)
b_slany as Słony --> I don't think we often use adjectives in their simple forms as cities names. Therefore, I suggest "Słonowice". -wice is a nice ending that we didn't use yet.
b_vraclav as Wrocław --> I suggest "Wracław" just to avoid repetitions.
c_hradec as Grodziec --> sounds awesome
b_primda as Przymda --> Przymdów sounds more Polish. This "md" should be "closed" with "ów", if you know what I mean.
b_telcz as Cielcza --> the etymology says that it derives from a word that means 'male calf', but "Cielcza" has an ending 'a' which would suggest the feminine gender, so my suggestion is "Cielczyn".
b_spytihnev as Spitygniew --> 'gniew' is fine but I wonder how to reflect the 'to know' part in Polish... "Spity" means "drunken" so metaphorically it could work out, because I think that in Polish translation of some Bible versets we use the Polish adjective which means "drunk" to reflect that someone was full of something. But "spity" refers to "gniew" so it doesn't sound too good for me. It's like the "gniew" was "drunken" which does not make any sense. Maybe Gniewięcin? "Gniew" means wrath, "wie" means (he/she/it) knows (+we change e to ę just to make the pronunciation easier) and one of the city names' ending -cin. Besides, Gniewięcin is a real small village in Poland.
b_hodonin as Godonin --> sounds fine, we use a term gody, among other meanings, to refer to a wedding reception, so the etymology is right, it is very accurate
b_veseli as Radość --> well, we have a word "wesoły" which meaning you can easily guess and it is commonly used, so I would recommend Wesołów (there is a small village called that in Poland), or if you are already bored with the ending -ów I can suggest "Wesołkowo" with additional "k" that makes the pronunciation easier
b_hradec-nad-moravici as Grodziec --> "Grodziec" sounds good, but what about the river "moravici"? As the river Moravice does not have a Polish equivalent, I suggest adding an adjective. An adjective to a word "morava" (quite a similar name for me) would be "morawski" in Polish. So, I suggest the name "Grodziec Morawski" (referring to the region called Moravia) or "Grodziec Morawicki" (referring to this river).
b_rybnik as Staw --> Good idea. Although the city lies in Poland now and it's called simply Rybnik :P I think it sounds very Polish to me, because we have a word "ryba" [fish] and if I were to create a new word in Polish which would describe the place where there are a lot of fish, I may say "rybnik" :P There are also some villages called "Staw", but personally I think that "Stawiszyn" is more appropriate if you necessarily don't want to use 'rybnik'. The eding -iszyn indicates that it is a city and I also think that basic form is a bit weird/boring.
b_kreuzburg as Krzyżów --> The city was established by German knights and its name was later on polonized to Kluczbork [klucz means key btw]. Now it lies in Poland and it's still called Kluczbork... I don't know, it's up to you, but I would leave the current Polish city names alone and have fun with polonizing the foreign names like Czechs for example. As I said, up to you, if you want to polonized it while basing on the etymology, I would polonized is as a "Krzyżogród". "Krzyż" meaning "cross" and "gród" meaning "small castle" in Polish, but it's also used in city names as normal "castle".
b_strehlitz as Strzelce --> It was called "Wielke[great] Strzelce" during the old good times.
b_otmunchow as Otmuchów --> Otmuchów is modern name. Historically, we call it Odmuchów or Odmachów. I suggest using Odmuchów. (you can see how the letter "d" has undergone the process of softening to the letter "t")
b_wlen as Wleń --> The name is alright but I am not sure about the etymology. Polish wikipedia says that the original word comes from Polish word "wał" which means a rampart or bulwark. So you may want to adjust names in other languages.
c_sprottau as Szprętawa --> It is called "Szprotawa" in Polish and it was called that since 1750. Why Szprętawa :P? I mean, I can't see why you decided to change the name to that.
b_zagan as Żagań --> Wikipedia says that historically it was called Żegań, Żegan or Zegan. I would suggest "Żegań".
b_crossen as Ujście Odrzańskie --> Sounds very nice, but Polish wikipedia says that the etymology is different. The original German name "Crossen" is derived from two Polish words "krost" which means unevenness [nierówność] and "chrost" which means thicket. The geography and vegetation of the surrounding of the city seems to correspond with it. So the name "Krosno Odrzańskie" is not only Polish/Slavic, but it is still used in modern times so I would leave it.
c_dresden as Drezno --> Drezno is modern name, historically it was Drezdno.
b_freiberg as Srebrzyszcze --> Why Srebrzyszcze :P? Sounds fine but let's have fun with the etymology. Literally it would be "Wolna Kopalnia" but meh, it strongly refers to the very popular in Poland game called Gothic I. Well, the game was made in Germany, so it would make sense that they have that city, but it sounds weird as the obvious association is with the game. How about "Kopalnica"? "Kopalnia" + "Wolnica" (the word made by me just now, an adjective is "wolny" so a place in feminine gender that is famous for being free? Wolnica :P). Well, the most important part "woln" is not included in "Kopalnica", but the whole word makes sense, so I would go for it.
b_grossenhain as Wielki Gaj --> Sounds good, but the Polish historical name for this city is Osiek Wielki . Gaj is modern Polish word for grove, and not only the Polish wikipedia says that grossenhain was osiek wielki in the past, the osiek also meant sth like gaj in Old Polish, so it fits. I would go for Osiek Wielki.
c_cottbus as Chociebądz --> Personally I think that the current name, Chociebuż, is better :P Also, it sounds weird to have "dz" at the end of the word. It's hard to pronounce. It should be more like Chociebądź, but this "bądź" sounds also weird, because it means "will be" in the imperative mood in Modern Polish but I would expect this name to change somehow during the time. In fact, it has change into "buż" indeed, so I would suggesting leaving "Chociebuż" :P
b_kamenz as Kamieńczyk --> your version sounds good and natural but the Polish historical name is Kamieniec.
c_naumberg as Nowogród Bobrzański --> Are you sure it refers to Nowogród Bobrzański? It is naumbErg not naumbUrg.
b_forst as Barszcz --> Historically there were 2 names, Barszcz and Barść. I would suggest using the latter one, because in these days barszcz in Poland means primarily a popular dish [borscht], the dish was firstly named in the end of 16th century, so I guess in 10th century the name was either different or the dish was not so popular. Anyway, if there are 2 names that can be used, I would suggest the name "Barść" because of the above mentonied reasons.
PS@ Please let me know to either continue or change sth in my approach to 'correcting' these names :P And if I skipped some name, it means that I just didn't want to add anything to that name because the original or your version was perfect for me.
At first, I'd like to point out that I'm a native Czech speaker and Czech isn't that different from Polish, so I'm not that awesome, really. But when creating the Polish names, I had to learn a lot of stuff, so I already know most things about your language you're saying here. More than half of those names were made by me after all.
Also, I'd like to point out that the adjectives are supposed to be in English!
I'm pretty much aware, that the Polish adjective of "Praga" is "Praski", "Praska", "Praskie", but the English adjective of "Praga" is "Pragian", because it's supposted to appear in the English sentences. This is not the usual translation, the idea behind this mod is to make use of that "cultual names" option to create much better experiance from playing in English.
Now, about the names you're suggesting...
b_wolgast as "Wołogoszcz"
Hmm... I actually didn't find that name, I was simply changing "-gast" to "-goszcz" as a matter of regularity.
But even now I want to keep it as "Wolgoszcz", because this "Wol-" comes from Slavic/Pomeranian "Wolny". "Wolny" means "Free" and derives from Slavic/Polish word "Wola", which means "Will".
I understand that the name "Wołogoszcz" was offically there for a while, but it was obviously abandoned because nobody actually used it. And since "Wola" has the soft L there, I don't think it shoul be changed to the hard Ł.
b_bezdez as "Bezdzied"
The original name ("Bezděz") is in Czech and we don't usually end the names with Z either. It's quite weird even to me and I wanted to translate thad feeling to Polish, too, which seems I had succeed. :)
I don't really mind changing it to "Bezdzied" in Polish if you'll insist on it, but as I have explained above, there is a reason for it.
By the way, historically the original name of the castle really was "Bezděd", and it really des mean "Without any grandfather" (even in Czech).
b_litomerice as "Litomierzyce"
There is a difference between translating the name and localising the name.
For example, there is a town called "Varad" in Hungarian. If you're translating the name, then it's:
"Varad" >> "Vár + ad" >> "Gród + diminutive" >> "Gródek"
If you're localising the name, then it's:
"Varad" >> "Varad + (something Slavic)" >> "Varad + in" >> "Varadin" >> "Varadzin"
As you can see, both of them are historically used, but I'm preferably choosing the translation, because the result sounds more natural.
In case of "Litomierzyce", this is a simple localisation, but be it a new town, Polish people would never call it like that.
Czech "Litomír" is "Lutomir" in Polish, and the termination "-yce" is more Silesian than Polish, so I'm trying to avoid it in this mod (but I'm using it here or there).
And, "Lutomierzyn"[pl.wikipedia.org] is an actual place in Mazovia.
b_zatec as "Zaczech"
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Zaczech" "Zaczechian".
b_stribro as "Srebrowo"
While I understand where this is came from, for me it's the same as was said above.
There is only one town called "Stříbro" in whole Czechia and historically, it was a silver mine, so the name derives from what they mined there.
In a sense, I understand your point, I would also named it "Stříbřice" in Czech if translating from another language, but then all the places would sound the same. That's why such exception appear here or there in the real world, so I considered it and translated it to Polish as "Srebro" as such exception.
And you can also feel it doesn't sound absolutely wrong.
b_domazlice as "Domożylice"
Thank you for trying to solve this one, but can't you try make somethich without the "-ice" termination? Your suggestion is a mere localisation again.
b_prachen as "Próchnowo"
Again the same. Haha, you seem to be convinced that all Polish holdings ends with either "-ów", "-owo" or "-ice", but that's not true even closely. Look at this page[en.wikipedia.org], you'll see how diverse they are.
I would say that the "-no" termination is one of the most common in Poland.
b_pisek as "Piasków"
No with the same reason as above.
b_doudleby as "Dułaba"
As you point out, I actually made a mistake here, because the "Dúlába" tribe is named after the river "Łaba", so it will appear in the next version as "Dułaby" "Dułabian".
But I'm keeping the "-y" termination, because even in Polish, if the place is called after some tribe or specific group of people, it usually ends with "-y", even if the group itself ends with "-a".
b_rozmberk as "Różana Góra"
Yes, you do use the word "Góra" in your names, but not the same way as the Czechs do.
We often literally translate "Berg" as "Hora" from German, even if there is no actual mountain there. "Hora" may also mean "Mine" in Czech (like in German), but Polish is different.
In case of "Zielona Góra", "Biała Góra" and "Miedziana Góra", I did use it. In the other cases I simply din't. If you look at all the Polish names, it's not that usual to them.
b_kromeriz as "Kromierzyż"
In this case I don't mind changing it, if you think "Kromierzyż" sounds beter, but are you sure about that? Forget what they say about it on the wiki, isn't "Kremż" much easier to say? You did similar thing with "Sącz", which was originally "Sądecz"...
b_beroun as "Brudnica"
I personally think that "Brudnica" sounds good, but the "-ica" termination is usual for a places, that were named after the river with the same name.
Also, "Bieruń"[pl.wikipedia.org] is an actual place in Silesia.
b_melnik as "Mielec"
As you have probably noticed, I'm repeating names on purpose, because even in the real life, the names of towns and villages repeat themselves. For example, "Dąbrowa" is a very common name in Poland and all Slavic regions.
Look at the links:
Poland[pl.wikipedia.org]
Czechia[cs.wikipedia.org]
Slovakia[sk.wikipedia.org]
Lusatia[hsb.wikipedia.org]
Yugoslavia[hr.wikipedia.org]
Just for you to know, in the next version of the mod (which includes also the kingdom of Croatia), there's gonna be "Nowogród" 5x, "Starogród" 4x, "Wrocław" 3x, "Pilzno" 3x, "Mielec" 2x, and so on.
b_slany as "Słony"
Again, it's kind of unusual even in Czech and I kept it as an exception.
c_hradec as "Grodziec"
You said: sounds awesome
My answer: Look at the link[pl.wikipedia.org]. :D
6x in the mod. Very common, really.
b_primda as "Przymdów"
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Przymdów" "Przymdowian".
I'll make an exception here and change it, because your claiming about "md" sounds believable.
b_telcz as "Cielczyn"
This is interesting. I wouldn't mind changing it, but are you sure about your claiming? I just look in the dictionary and there are words like "Tata", "Wiolinista", "Bandyta" or "Kolega", right?
b_spytihnev as "Gniewięcin"
Interesting again. In Czech, the word "Spyt" was also lost long time ago, so only the old language can explain the origin. That's why I kept in the same in Polish.
Also, I took that name from the Polish wiki[pl.wikipedia.org], so it should be fine.
On the other hand, the change you've proposed is quite common an natural for Polish, so I'm wiling to change it, if you look at the wiki and still think that "Gniewięcin" is better.
b_veseli as "Wesołkowo"
I don't really like the name "Radość" either, but considering the other factors, the name then should be "Wesole" (the same termination as for example "Jelenie"[pl.wikipedia.org]). I'll explain this later.
b_hradec-nad-moravici as "Grodziec Morawski"
Well, I usually do this kind of change for Polish names, but as I have shown in the link[pl.wikipedia.org] above, you have a lot of places called "Grodziec" and none of them has the adjective.
I have added it to some other places and I don't think it's necessary here, but if you still thinks so, make something from the river "Morawica" than "Morawa". (Because "Morawa" is also originally a river.)
b_rybnik as "Stawiszyn"
No, there is a lot more places called "Staw" in Poland than "Stawiszyn". Also "Stawiszyn" ends with "-yn", which is quite boring, "Staw" looks more original in the list.
By the way, I don't like "Rybnik" in Polish, because you actually use the "-ik" termination for places only very rarely, so I'm trying to avoid it (but it still appears here or there).
b_kreuzburg as "Krzyżogród"
Haha, no. Most of "-burg" places are "-ów"" in Polish in my mod. "-dorf" are more likely "-owo".
b_strehlitz as "Wielke Strzelce"
As I know, it was "Groß Strehlitz" in German and "Strzelce Opolskie" in Polish. I didn't use it, because there are only one "Strzelce" in the game, so it isn't needed (except for "Neustrelitz" which is "Strzelcek" in Polish).
b_otmunchow as "Odmuchów"
I'm pretty much aware of that, but the letter was changed for better pronunciation, so I think it's fine.
b_wlen as "Wleń"
I'm prety much sure about it's etymology from "Lenno", which means "Feud".
c_sprottau as "Szprotawa"
I'm calling it "Szprętawa", because "Szprotawa" is a language hybrid just like "Wolgast". The current name was affected by the Germans, but "Szprętawa" makes more sense in comparison with the other Slavic languages. I insist on this form.
b_zagan as "Żegań"
When they say old names on Wiki, they usually means that they also used that name to mark the city. "Żagań" is totaly fine.
b_crossen as "Krosno"
And I disagree with that etymology. Different people say different things and sometimes people of one language prefer one version or even consider it proven, while the others consider the other proven.
The city was originally German and they name it after the rivers. I insist on it.
c_dresden as "Drezdno"
Let's keep it easy to pronounce.
b_freiberg as "Kopalnica"
No, I'm sorry, but even I can tell that "Kopalnica" is a bad name. Polish people usually named the settlement after what was mined there (that's why I used "Srebrzyszcze"). There is no actual place begining with "Kopal-".
b_grossenhain as "Osiek Wielki"
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Osiek Wielki" "Osiekian".
I really like this one. :)
c_cottbus as "Chociebuż"
Well, in Czech I also translated it as "Chotěbuď", where "Buď" means "Will be", so I understand how you got to it. :)
I don't mind changing it to "Chociebądź", but "Chociebuż" is way too much affected by German "Cottbus" to me.
b_kamenz as "Kamieniec"
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Kamieniec" "Kamieniecian".
c_naumberg as "Nowogród Bobrzański"
Yes, I'm sure. For this place, "-berg" and "-burg" were both histrocally used.
b_forst as "Barść"
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Barść" "Barścian".
I was aware of the dish name, but I thought it was fine like that. However, if you think this one is better, I have no reason to refuse.
Huf... Now, what do I think of your approach?
I love your enthusiasm and you actually had some good points, but as you could see, I had to reject most of them.
I would appreciate if you'd look on the mentioned names again and answer some of my question before suggesting more, because we must be on the same page when working on it.
Your knowledge of etymology was totaly none with your first post, but I could feel that you grew up to the beginner level with the second one, so I look forward to the other ones.
Also, your explanations are absolutely necessary, because you poses more knowledge as a native speaker, while I poses more experience with the topic. You can continue the same way as now, just think a bit more before suggesting, because I've just lost 5 hours while answering this post instead of working on the mod itself. (It's not like I mind, but try to actually learn frome it, because only then it would be useless.)
Also, always check Current holding names list[mchn.wz.cz] with your claiming, because you can see all the languages here and I need to keep certain system or unity in there, so I can't just randomly change the name, if it doesn't make sence with the others.
I have mentioned this with b_veseli, where except for "Radość", the only acceptable name is "Wesole", because it's:
While another name is:
And there is a lot of villages called "Orle" in Poland (see link[pl.wikipedia.org]).
I think you can see it now. I can name it "Radość" as an total exception, but otherwise I had to follow the rules.
Ok, I'm tired and hungry, so I'm ending here. See ya!
b_wolgast - Ppersonally I think that "łg" sounds better than "lg". For example, we say Wołga instead of Wolga (the Volga River). In the name "Wołga" you can see the transformation from Russian "lg" to Polish "łg" so perhaps that's why I had the feeling that there should be a change. But we also use "lg" in Modern Polish e.g. "lgnąć" (to cling) so if you want to leave Wolgoszcz I think it is alright.
b_stribro - I get you, but keep in mind that "Srebro" is a Modern Polish name for "silver". In Old Polish, it was more like "Strzebro" or "śrzebro" according to this https://spjs.ijp.pan.pl/haslo/index/15832/46177. There is no single place called "Srebro" in Poland. We have places like Srebrna x10, Srebrne x1, Srebrniki x2, Srebrnica x2, Srebrowo x1, Srebrówka x1, Srebrzysko x1, Srebrzyszcze x1. I admit that all places with the same ending would be boring, but from my point of view, a modern Polish noun in place of a city name sounds unusual. Therefore, my point is, that even if there was a Polish village established as "silver", it would be more like Strzebro and it would ultimately shift into sth like "Strzebrzycze" or I dunno, it's just a guess, you are the smart guy here :P. If it's only an exception I can agree that it's fine, but if it's a rule to use a singular Polish modern noun as a city name I would slightly protest if I may :P
b_domazlice - Well, you're right, we use -ice only in the specific context (it refers to the landlord surname). What about "Domożylów" then? Or "Domożytno?"
b_prachen and b_pisek - The ending -no is completely fine, I don't have a problem with it :P It's about singular modern nouns, I think there are too many of them in your list, please tell me what do you think of it.
b_kromeriz - I think Kremż is better, easier to pronounce and sounds great. I just wanted to stick to the original historic version, but don't mind changing it to Kremż if you would like to.
b_telcz - Yeah, there are exceptions, but the general rule is that ending -a is feminine gender. Here you have the source: https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Polish/More_on_nouns_-_genders
b_spytihnev - Isn't Spitygniew a localization of Czech prince Spytihněv then?
b_hradec-nad-moravici - Up to you, I just looked on the original "hradec nad moravici" and thought that Polish version should also have an adjective because how can we be worse huh? I'm joking, do what you want with it.
c_sprottau - I just wanted to know the reasons for changing it in Polish version. I think "Sprzętawa" sounds as good as "Szprotawa" :)
b_freiberg - What about Kopalina x22, Kopalino x1, Kopaliny x19, Kopalnia x10, Kopalnictwo x1, Kopałówka x1 :P? Remember the variations of "silver" village? We have two "Srebrnica" in Polish, so the ending -nica happens. I can't agree that it is bad :P But you provided the reasoning and I think now that your choice is better than Kopalnica :)
Alright, so I will focus on checking the words rather than providing my own variations for everything :) It should not take me so long, so I will add my suggestions down below. And I am also waiting for learning your approach to modern singular nouns as city's names.
Bonuses:
c_severin as Severzyn --> We don't have 'v' in Polish, Sewerzyn sounds good.
b_sulecin - I think you may mess up a little bit here, you probably should shift some names one place to right.
b_berent and b_kostschin as Kośtrzyn --> Sounds very weird. I would say "Kostrzyn" is much better. We do not say "śtrz" at all.
b_murzzuschlag as Murzica --> We don't say "rzica" at all. I suggest "Murzyce"
c_pitten as Budziń --> "dziń" is hard to pronounce. I suggest "Budzyń" or "Budzin"
c_somogy as Dereńowec --> I suggest "Dereniowiec", your suggestion does not sound Polish to me. We don't say "ńo" at all, we use "ni" + "wec" sounds more Czech than Polish to me.
c_temes as Tamiżsk --> Can't even say it without "y" :P "Tamiżysk" looks more Polish
All other Polish names are either accaptable or awesome in my opinion, so I would leave them alone as you are not so willing to change them :P I would really appreciate if you consider translating Prussian names in the future, thanks for your work :)
b_wolgast –
b_stribro
In whole Czechia there is only one place called "Stříbro"/"Srebro", in whole Poland there is none. Can you see that the difference is in only 1 name? That's the difference that causes the problem. If it would be vice versa, one in Poland, none in Czechia, I would probably also thought it's not natural to my language, because it isn't.
The only thing I can tell to convince you (maybe) is the fact, than in the kingdom of Croatia (which will appear in the next update), there is a single one place called "Olovo" in Croatian, which is in Polish literaly "Wołoj" again. There is only one such place in whole Croatia, all other mines has normal names, but this one has no "-in", "-ek", "-ica" and so on.
So, there is Poland, Lusatia, Czechia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia, there are only two, "Srebro" and "Woloj", "Stříbro" and "Olovo". But I won't pretend they don't exist, because they're both so old and important to get into the game, and yet the speakers kept it like that.
You mentioned that the word "Srebro" was "Strzebro" in old Polish. But as the language evolves (or degenerates), the holding names do the same, so of course it gets updated. The only reason why would the name stop updating is if the original word is lost from the language (like in case of Spitygniew).
b_domazlice
Well, I can make such name myself, the reason, why I'm dissatisfied with it is, that I can name it "Domożyły" myself, but I don't think it sounds actually natural. That name is quite original, so I hoped for something totaly original with meaning "Incomers" from you, too.
b_pisek
What you're talking about? In case of "Piasek", there is totaly nice termination "-ek", which you can see for example in "Gródek", "Głogówek", "Pagórek", "Orzełek", "Michałówek" and so on.
It's just that the word already has the termination, so there is no need to add more.
The same goes for "Osiek". Originally, it was just a normal word with meaning "Defensive glade". There is 20+ villages called "Osiek" in Poland and 6+ villages called "Osek" in Czechia, the same goes for the other Slavic countries. It used to be a normal word, but because it already sounds like a place, they didn't changed it.
This is actually quite common. It's totaly different to that "Srebro"/"Woloj", which actually do sound weird, this isn't.
(But I do admit that when I heared the name "Písek" in my native language for the first time, I was also a bit surprised.)
b_kromeriz –
b_telcz
Okay, you're right, this thing is pretty much different in Czech. We normally do have "-a" termination as masculine, even though most words are feminine.
I'm gonna change it. What's better? "Cielcz" or "Cielczyn"?
b_spytihnev
It's hard to tell. The word "Spyt" was part of Czech language in the past, but it's lost. The only thing that survived is a phrase "zpytovat svědomí", which means "to examen" or "to thing about the bad things you've done". At the time the name "Spitygniew" came to Polish language (hundereds years ago), you still could have the word "Spyt", so "Spitygniew" might be actually a translation. I don't know.
But since it's lost, it's totaly natural for Polish to remove it from the place name, too.
b_hradec-nad-moravici –
c_sprottau –
b_freiberg
Yep, bring ash to my head, I totaly missed it. I'm sorry for being so conceited.
So, what know? Do you think it's better than "Srebrzyszcze"?
Still not sure what "approach to modern singular nouns" is, so I'm sorry if I didn't answer your question.
Also, I'm gonna be out for work for next 3 days (yes, even though it's Easter), so I cannot answer you anymore until this monday.
Have a nice weekend!
Bonuses:
c_severin – I knew that rule, I just missed it, but still thank you, it's fixed now.
b_sulecin – I don't understand. If you mean that "Sulislav", then it has the same origin as "Sulęcin".
b_berent and b_kostschin – Fixed. But it's such shame you lost the word "Kostra", really. You have only "Kościec" now...
b_murzzuschlag – "Murzyca" is supposed to be a river. And I guess you mean I forgot to give hard Y there. "Murzyca" is fine, right? I already fixed it.
Budziń – Okay, "Budzin" then. Fixed.
Dereńowec – That's why I love your help. I know all that rules, but there is so much of them that I just forgot sometimes, because I can't really see them. Thanks, fixed.
Tamiżsk – Here I need more data. It's named after the river "Tamiża", similary to "Słupsk" being named after the river "Słupia". This whole concept is weird to me, so I don't know the rules. In Czech, it's okay to name it "Tamížsko", so I simply removed the "-o", if there is more to it, let me know.
But that's all already, I need to sleep. :D
Srebro
Dziewczyna
Chmury (plural but still)
Robota
Piec
Pięta
My point is that there are 19 variations of "silver" in Poland and none of them is just "srebro" with the original form and that's why it sounds weird for me, because we commonly use this name for sth else :P. If I want to make sth exceptional, I would create some nicer ending rather than keep orignial form. I think we just have different approaches, if it's okay to you I am not willing to argue about it anymore.
b_domazlice - Yeah, "Domożyły" does not sound very natural, currently I have no more ideas, sorry. "żyły" means also "veins" so maybe that's why I find it unnatural.
b_pisek - I told you already that the endings are fine :) Let me explain my approach then. I mean that we associate "Piasek" strongly with sand and when I see it on the map it looks a bit weird as a name for the city, at least for me. What I am trying to tell you is that I would naturally expect the city name to differ from the name of a modern singular noun for a sand in Polish. But maybe it's only me, if you didn't get me at first I think we may skip it.
b_telcz - I would suggest "Cielczyn", not because I suggested it before :P but in the first one we have hard to pronounce "ci" at the beginning and "cz" at the end, so this "yn" is making it easier to pronounce. It is not like pronunciation is extremely hard, but I am wondering which version is more fun and natural, so I would go for the second one :P
b_spytihnev - Well, we still use "spyt" in Polish. Spytać means "to ask" and is commonly used.
b_freiberg - Hey, I told you already that your version is better in my opinion :D
Please go back to my post if you have some time and check the suggestions that I added at the bottom :) Have a nice weekend!
PS@ Oh, you already saw them, thanks :D Sorry for keeping you out of sleep.
My bad with b_sulecin, this "???" next to "Solislau" confused me a bit.
Tamiżsk - Well, I can pronounce "psk" easily but it's extremely hard to pronounce "żsk". I almost instinctively add "y" and it's "żysk", while I can pronounce "psk" without an additional "y". I can't really explain it professionally, but let me provide you with some example :P
I have a nice file with all Polish names for every place in Poland (here is the link in case you need it: http://ksng.gugik.gov.pl/pliki/urzedowy_wykaz_nazw_miejscowosci_2019.xlsx). When I typed "psk" I found 1686 results. When I typed "żsk" I found 0 results. When I typed "żysk" I found 386 results. I hope that it will convince you :)
Thanks again for your work, it is very impressive :)
While I understand you don't want to talk about this anymore, let's look at the new imputs from you:
"Dziewczyna" is supposed to be the name of a river next to the place, so I guess "Dziewczyca" would work better for you? In this case I didn't even know it's an actual word.
"Chmury" – I personally don't like this name and I've chosen this one, because I had no better idea. Again, I'm willing to change this, if you have a better idea. (But there is an actual place called "Chmury" in Poland – link[pl.wikipedia.org].)
"Robota" – I kind of want to keep that one. Curently, it's "Robota" in all Slavic languages.
"Piec" – As you can see here[pl.wikipedia.org], two places (rocks) are named like that in Poland. Variations of "Piec" (Pec, Peć, ...) with the literal meaning "Oven" is used a name for a towns/villages all over all Slavic languages, so I can't see why Poland should be an exception (especially since you name rocks like that, other Slavic languages do that, too).
"Pięta" – The idea is (I think), that the place is "the heel of a mountain" and the name derived from that.
b_telcz
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Cielczyn" "Cielczynian".
b_spytihnev
So, should I keep it as "Spitygniew" then?
We can also change it to "Spycigniew" if you want – that would be closest localisation of "Spytihněv" (and I would translate it like that if I didn't find the official word "Spitygniew" before).
However, I still also like that "Gniewięcin" idea though.
Tamiżsk
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Tamiżysk" "Tamiżyskian".
Thank you for that file, but I can't open "xlsx" on my computer (I don't have any kind Office here, I'm satisfied just with Chrome, Notepad and a list of self-written programs). Could you send it to me in PDF instead? (You should be able to "Save it as PDF" in you Excel.)
Edit: When you have weird feelings about "Piasek" or "Piec", "Kamień" (link[pl.wikipedia.org]), "Środa" or "Piła" seems fine to you? Why?
Well, I know the place called "Piła" and there is a football club called "Polonia Środa" (a name used by a popular Polish youtuber in fifa as far as I remember) so I kind of heard these names already and that's why I have gotten used to them. The same goes with Łódź (boat) which is one of the biggest Polish cities. But "Kamień" sounds weird to me indeed, I didn't consider it as a place name before. I probably got the feeling that there is sth wrong with these names because in Poland we rarely use the basic form of a modern noun as a city name as I said already quite a few times :P. I get you that there are rocks called Piec, I am not saying that the name is essentialy wrong :P
Here you have Polish cities listed: https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dane_statystyczne_o_miastach_w_Polsce
I sorted it in a population order and I started checking the cities' names from the top to the bottom while searching for the basic Polish noun as a city name (I hope it is understandable). I found these names that fit the pattern:
Łódź (boat) 679.941
Piła (saw) 73.522
Ząbki (tooth in a dimunitive and plural form, well, it does not excatly fits the pattern because of the changes in form but still it sounds a bit strange to be honest so I listed it here :P) 38.005
Brzeg (edge/bank) 35.709
Koło (wheel) 21.686
And after I found these 5 names I came back to the top while counting how many city names I passed and I counted 339 cities' names with a different endings than singular Polish noun in a basic form. So as you can see, it it unusual to name a city with the unchanged noun that is used commonly to describe sth else :P. I am not saying that it is wrong, I am just trying to provide you with my feedback :)
I may also messed up a bit, because I wrote that "the endings are fine" but I should have been more specific. In the case of "Piasek" for example, I think that the ending -ek is generally okay. But in this case, if you does not change the ending -ek, it would mean the basic form of a noun "sand" in Polish, so I would change it to "Piaseczno" for example, I think it sounds better :P
"Chmury" - how about Chmurno? I can't really think of a name that would fit the "cloudy rock" etymology, sorry.
b_spytihnev - No no, I like Gniewięcin more :P Just saying that we still use "spyt" in Polish, consider it a trivia :P. "Spity" is not so common though, but still I can think of a sentence in which I could use the part "spity" (e.g. Wrócił spity do domu. He came home drunk.) but it is not so common I think, normally I would say "Wrócił pijany do domu." with the same meaning but different adjective. So yeah, I would go for "Gniewięcin".
Here you have a link to the PDF version: http://ksng.gugik.gov.pl/pliki/urzedowy_wykaz_nazw_miejscowosci_2019.pdf
So once again, I think that it is okay if you use these basic nouns as city's names from time to time, but for me it would be perfect if you do not overuse them :)
Wesołych Świąt Wielkanocnych!
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Dziewczyca" "Dziewczycian".
c_wolkenstein, b_wolkenstein
Yeah, that's exactly the problem, sometimes it's really hard. I still might change it to "Chmurno", but honestly, that name sounds funny to me, because in Czech, "Chmurno" means a "Sullen mood". What about "Chmurek" or "Chmur"? I'd like to avoid "Chmurów" or "Chmurzyn", because that's reserved for cases, where I can name all West Slavic languages like that.
b_spytihnev
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Gniewięcin" "Gniewięcinian".
Now, about that "basic nouns as city's names"...
At first, big Thank you for that PDF file, it's even larger than I've expected.
But back to the actual topic.
It's not like I spontaneously remove those terminations, I usually keep it in that form, if the original name has it in that form. And I must agree that the percentage is quite high in this game (despite it being rare for every single Slavic language just like in Polish).
Maybe if you would sort the towns/villages/cities not in the population order, but from oldest to youngest, you found that the percentage is much higher, but as I said, I don't know, I'm just guessing.
By the way, we also can say "pochmurny nastrój" with the same meaning but it is not so common (rather used in literary works) and it cannot be said without a prefix "po" in this case so "Chmurno" sounds good in Polish, but "Chmurek" sounds even better for me, so I would go for "Chmurek".
b_domazlice - I was thinking a bit about the etymology and the word "incomers". An incomer in Polish would be "Przybysz" so how about "Przybychowo"? You can find other variations of it in the pdf list that I sent you. There are also "Przybyszew" and "Przybyłów" that I like.
b_kecskemet - I have a feeling that instead of "Kozlin" it should be "Koźlin", with "ź" just to make the pronunciation easier
c_hewes - "Ciepłowoda" is not bad but how about "Cieplice"? "Cieplica" is a name for hot spring in Polish and there are some places called "Cieplice" with "e' ending so I would go for it :P
I'd like you also to verify the newly added names in the Kingdom of Croatia, if you'd be so glad. :) (It's the end of the list. It start's with "c_vukovar".)
c_wolkenstein, b_wolkenstein
Fixed. It will appear in the next version as "Chmurek" "Chmurekian".
b_domazlice
In a sence, I like "Przybyszew", which is great to me, but it's not very mocking. (Well, "Domożyły" isn't much mocking either, but I guess you can see the difference.)
I'll give you one more chance and if nothing better will come to your mind, I'll accept it, because as I said, generally it's good.
b_kecskemet, b_koszalin
Accepted. It will appear in the next version as "Koźlin" "Koźlinian".
c_hewes
The reason I didn't name it "Cieplice", was, that it has that "-ice" termination, what I don't like in Polish so much. (I don't like it for being rather Silesian, even though it does appear all over Poland later.)
I took the current name from the village Ciepłowody[pl.wikipedia.org], which seems to be originally "Ciepłowoda" in the past (I assumed it from the German name).
c_pozega as Żdżar ---> I think the plural form, that is "Żdżary", would be better. Compare the occurences of "Żdżar" and "Żdżary" in Polish. We have 3 places called "Żdżar" and 20 places called "Żdżary". I think the latter one is easier to inflect (e.g. if I ask an inhabitant of this place "Where do you live?", the answers will be "W Żdżarze." [if the place is called "Żdżar", it'll be hard to pronounce] or "W Żdżarach" [if the place is called "Żdżary", it'll be not so hard to pronounce]. "Żdżarze" has the sound "ż/rz" 3 times in a one word which I think is unusual.
b_kutina as Kucina ---> I think Kucina sounds fine and as it derives from a river name, I do not know if you are willing to change it, but the original word from which the river name derives is "Kut", very similar to Polish "kąt" with the same meaning. The dimunitive form of it would be "Kącik" so hmm... how about "Kącina"? We have 8 places called that in Poland, but be aware that all of these places are parts of villages, it is not used as a village/city name. So again, Kucina is fine and it sounds Polish because you changed "t" to "c", but "Kącina" would be more Polish imo.
b_krapina as Karpniec ---> I wonder about this "rpn" part. I think we use "rpn" in words sometimes, but as it took my attention I checked the variations of "Karp" as a place name and I didn't find any "Karpniec" in Poland, probably because of this "rpn" part :P or wait, maybe "pniec" is wrong, I checked it now and I don't think we use "pniec" at all in any word. I suggest one of these: "Karpinek" "Karpiniec" "Karpiny" "Karpie" "Karpicko" "Karpiska" "Karpniki" "Karpno" "Karpin". I am not sure which one is my favorite :P I think I like Karpno, but if you think that there are too many places with -no ending, choose whatever you like :P
b_garestin as Garesztin ---> I don't think we have -tin ending in Polish. -sztyn occurs sometimes, but I think it is used only in localization of German names (e.g. "Olsztyn" "Franksztyn"). Do you want me to create a name similar to Czech one or a name closer to the etymology? Maybe sth with "gród" or "miasto" part?
b_cazma as Pijawnia ---> This one is awesome :D
b_sisak as Sygoszcz ---> I thing "ygoszcz" is perfect. I just wonder about the first letter. If you would like to make it even more Polish, I would suggest "Zygoszcz". I think we tend to change "syg" into "zyg". Compare: "syg" as a part of a place name occurs 12 times. "Zyg" as a part of a place name occurs 343 times. PS@ For example, the name which in Czech is "Siegfried" in Polish is "Zygfryd".
b_okic as Okodz ---> It does not sound too good for me because of the ending -dz :P Last time you wanted to leave the ending, so I am not sure whether I shall think of an alternative version or you prefer to leave it...?
c_gacka as Seń ---> Hm, I think we use the ending -eń in at least 2 syllabic words. This may be bul**it because it's hard to check it and it's based on my language intuition that can be wrong :P But yeah, definately we don't have a place called "seń" in Poland and it took my attention as an unnatural name, so as it is Senov in Czech, I think "Senów" would fit in Polish :P
b_brinje as Brynje ---> Hm, I think we don't use the ending -nje. Actually, I think the Sorbian variations are nice, just without the diactrical mark, so I suggest "Bryno".
c_cherso as Chersz ---> I think it is fine, "Chersz" sounds good in Polish. I just looked on the Czech variation and I think that "Chruszec" would also be very nice and as Polish and Czech belong to the same language group it may be nice to have the similar variations in both languages.
I will look upon the rest later, don't want to take too much of your time. By the way, you've done a huge amount of work in the meantime, these names are mostly awesome. Thanks :)