Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

Templar
Caedwyn  [developer] 4 Mar, 2021 @ 4:21am
Balance Feedback!
Is Templar too strong? Too weak? Could it be cooler with changes? Any suggestions for the class go here!
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Showing 1-15 of 58 comments
he is not too strong nor too weak,just keep him this way!he is good!
Rehtaelle 6 Mar, 2021 @ 2:21pm 
A -100% DMG Puncture with -30 DODGE Debuff at 100% chance is wild for a tier 1 skill. That effectively nullifies any and all dodge enemies. Plus the guard reflection is a bit wild. Bear in mind that it's effectively a riposte that can't miss and can do much more damage than the average riposte. Plus the Crit immunity resulting from it. A guard combined with that skill is rather excessive imo.
Caedwyn  [developer] 6 Mar, 2021 @ 2:50pm 
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
A -100% DMG Puncture with -30 DODGE Debuff at 100% chance is wild for a tier 1 skill. That effectively nullifies any and all dodge enemies. Plus the guard reflection is a bit wild. Bear in mind that it's effectively a riposte that can't miss and can do much more damage than the average riposte. Plus the Crit immunity resulting from it. A guard combined with that skill is rather excessive imo.

Ok.

I nerfed it.

Have fun.

Edit: The crit chance reduction benefits the monsters more than Templar.
Last edited by Caedwyn; 6 Mar, 2021 @ 2:52pm
Rehtaelle 6 Mar, 2021 @ 2:58pm 
Sorta? Crits received have a high impact on stress among the party. Regardless, do you have a list of the stats on the trinkets? Their descriptions have me rather... Befuddled.
Caedwyn  [developer] 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:04pm 
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
Sorta? Crits received have a high impact on stress among the party. Regardless, do you have a list of the stats on the trinkets? Their descriptions have me rather... Befuddled.

Crits also double the damage reflected back at enemies.

I do not have a list of trinket stats. Everything is in the code, though.

Edit: Correction: crits do 1.5 damage. Thanks to Rehtaelle for the info.
Last edited by Caedwyn; 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:11pm
Rehtaelle 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:06pm 
Okay then, I'll go scrounging I suppose. Also, the damage reflected currently is so high, that a crit wouldn't really matter. I'm curious what you nerfed though. Would you like to elaborate, please?
Also crits don't do double damage, they only do 1.5x max damage, so I guess it *could* be double damage off a low roll in that regard.
Last edited by Rehtaelle; 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:09pm
Caedwyn  [developer] 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:08pm 
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
Okay then, I'll go scrounging I suppose. Also, the damage reflected currently is so high, that a crit wouldn't really matter. I'm curious what you nerfed though. Would you like to elaborate, please?

It's in the changelog.
Caedwyn  [developer] 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:24pm 
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
Okay then, I'll go scrounging I suppose. Also, the damage reflected currently is so high, that a crit wouldn't really matter. I'm curious what you nerfed though. Would you like to elaborate, please?
Also crits don't do double damage, they only do 1.5x max damage, so I guess it *could* be double damage off a low roll in that regard.

I'm off to bed. Thanks for the feedback. I'll check your next post tomorrow.
Last edited by Caedwyn; 6 Mar, 2021 @ 9:57pm
Rehtaelle 6 Mar, 2021 @ 3:30pm 
kk
Looking at trinkets now.
Rehtaelle 6 Mar, 2021 @ 4:23pm 
The CC trinket that *is* working reads:
-50% Healing Skills
+10% DMG
+5% CRT
+10% DMG
+5% CRT
+10% DMG
+5% CRT

This could really do with some tooltips to clean it up, especially since it doesn't really explain things.

+20% CRT Ranged Skills is VASTLY too much for a trinket with only +10% Stress as a drawback, particularly on a skill which has damage that absolutely skyrockets, and the armor penetration is a tad redundant.
As for the CoM trinket, just....... I'd recommend an overhaul. Probably have it only affect companions, and pick either attacks or friendly skills, then have its duration maybe... 5 rounds tops. Quest long virtue chance buffs with no downside is.... Kinda more than a little OP in farmstead.
Caedwyn  [developer] 6 Mar, 2021 @ 9:35pm 
Originally posted by Rehtaelle:
The CC trinket that *is* working reads:
-50% Healing Skills
+10% DMG
+5% CRT
+10% DMG
+5% CRT
+10% DMG
+5% CRT

This could really do with some tooltips to clean it up, especially since it doesn't really explain things.

+20% CRT Ranged Skills is VASTLY too much for a trinket with only +10% Stress as a drawback, particularly on a skill which has damage that absolutely skyrockets, and the armor penetration is a tad redundant.
As for the CoM trinket, just....... I'd recommend an overhaul. Probably have it only affect companions, and pick either attacks or friendly skills, then have its duration maybe... 5 rounds tops. Quest long virtue chance buffs with no downside is.... Kinda more than a little OP in farmstead.

Thanks again for the feedback. It's been a huge help.

The first CC trinket's supposed to give enhanced stats for health lost at 60/40/20%. I've fixed the buff rules to reflect that. You can tell me what you think after that.

You can check the changelog for other changes. They're implemented, or will be in a few minutes.

This may sound silly but I think the Lay on hands is pretty strong.Granted I just started using him today, but I think it should debuff the target ally a little too, but that's just me. Give it another turn cooldown but increase the healing a bit? Give the same penalties that the Templar gets to the ally? I don't know, i'm just spit-balling.
EDIT: What about making it so it can't crit? Or give it a use limit per battle

I think his mobility is incredibly good; Too good imo. He looks heavy, I think he should have the same movement as the crusader for example, being able to move only 1 space at a time, not 3, or even 2, because I think hes just way too mobile. Even 2 is pushing it, but that's just an unpopular opinion.

Perhaps Reckoning could get a little nerf? instead of 4 rounds the damage is amplified have it only 3? or what about having the damage be very low in the beginning, i'm talking like -60% damage or something, but ramping up to high levels as the battle progresses over a longer period of time, like the buff lasts for 6 rounds or something, but gives less per hit.
EDIT: What about giving it a turn cooldown, like its a super powerful move but comes at a price or something. Because once the Templar gets hit a few times, whats the point using the hammer attack anyway when you can use this attack that can target anyone (unlike the hammer), deal double or even triple damage, and be able to ignore any and all armor. It's not like its much of a risk getting hit a few times, hes a tank already, I just don't think he should have this much power to him that comes so easy.

Heres an idea: what if it has like 1 use per battle, and it starts off at like -50% damage, but every other skill he has and uses will give it a damage buff of like +25% for the rest of the battle. That way if its a long slug match, he can have this ace in the hole attack that deals massive damage and armor piercing. Leveling it up increases ACC by a lot so it is far less likely to miss. You don't wanna miss your big play after all.

Buff the hammer attack to be able to target the first 3 enemies rather than just the first 2. Nothing more to say on that. Give me a reason to use it over reckoning.

That's all I got, like I said I haven't really tested him much, but he seems fun, just a few things I'm suggesting. The only one I see could really change is his mobility though, everything else is just my opinion.

Thanks for reading!
Last edited by Blackjack [®…®]; 8 Mar, 2021 @ 9:04pm
Caedwyn  [developer] 8 Mar, 2021 @ 8:57pm 
Originally posted by Blackjack:
This may sound silly but I think the Lay on hands is pretty strong.Granted I just started using him today, but I think it should debuff the target ally a little too, but that's just me. Give it another turn cooldown but increase the healing a bit? Give the same penalties that the Templar gets to the ally? I don't know, i'm just spit-balling. EDIT: What about making it so it can't crit?

Something I do stand by though is that his movement is incredibly good. Too good imo. He looks heavy, I think he should have the same movement as the crusader for example, being able to move only 1 space at a time, not 3, or even 2, because I think hes just way too mobile. Even 2 is pushing it.

Perhaps Reckoning could get a little nerf? instead of 4 rounds the damage is amplified have it only 3? or what about having the damage be very low in the beginning, i'm talking like -60% damage or something, but ramping up to high levels as the battle progresses over a longer period of time, like the buff lasts for 6 rounds or something, but gives less per hit. EDIT: What about giving it a turn cooldown, like its a super powerful move but comes at a price or something.


That's all I got, like I said I haven't really tested him much, but he seems fun, just a few things I'm suggesting. The only one I see could really change is his mobility though, everything else is just my opinion.


Sure, I implemented some of this.

Templar's move ability now takes him 1 back, 1 forward.

Lay on Hands is not crit viable, now.

Reckoning is now -40% damage mod, changed from -35%.

I'd like more feedback on those changes.

Thank you for your feedback. This thread, and the people posting in it, has been incredibly helpful.
Last edited by Caedwyn; 8 Mar, 2021 @ 8:59pm
Great! Thank you for responding so quickly! I updated the list a little if you wanted to check out some new stuff I wrote, mostly about Reckoning and The Hammer Attack.
Caedwyn  [developer] 8 Mar, 2021 @ 9:06pm 
On it! Reading now.
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