Hey let me know if you'd like any suggestions! Don't want to impose or anything

Originally posted by benettonkkb:

Hey let me know if you'd like any suggestions! Don't want to impose or anything

I would love to have suggestions, that is why I posted this discussion after all.

I think Raknik should also boost Arachnarok spiders and also all lave spider variants, and maybe give his army poison attacks (because spiders). Tbh though I've always thought Raknik was a really cool lord for boosting all the spiders so I might be a bit biased.

I definitely agree that range is not the big focus on Greenskins. Do Night Goblin Archers already fire while moving? If not that could be a good addition to Skarsnick, because he's all about them cunning schemes.

This would probably be WAY too overpowered for Grimgor, but maybe his banner could be reworked to give a few minor bonuses to an attached black ork group, but then his level 30 trait could give that Immortalz ability to all black orks in his army. It would definitely make his Immortalz build way more interesting, because confident hero spam is boring. The question is just how to avoid making that insanely strong, maybe something like the effect is lost below 80% leadership or something.

I don't know if this could work: but maybe Grom's army (specifically his goblins and such) could have some sort of "feast" ability where they temporarily are immobile but restore their health. That could be a fun little "mini-cauldron" effect for him if you happened to confederate him.

For Azhag, since his crown comes from the powers of vampires, maybe his units could be given limited uses of a spell from the vampire lore of magic? Or possibly the healing while in melee power most vampires have.

I think Valthejean brings up some good points.

Would be cool to see his Black Orcs get treated similarly to his Immortulz banner is. I always thought it was strange that only one unit in his army gets this. If this ability was given to Black Orcs at his level 30, it could be allow him to keep a heavily black orc army into the late game, and let them keep up with dragons, artillery etc that are present in the late game.

I think what you've got so far, WRLegion sounds good. I'll just throw out a couple of ideas for color, pick at it as you feel appropriate.

Other than what's mentioned, I think Grom should also buff the pump wagons as well.

For Azhag, yeah it would be cool if he sort of played like a semi-undead army, where he makes the cheap units play like undead. Cheap, Grunt orcs become like buff zombies(hunger and vigor), trolls like Crypt Horrors(bonus v infantry, terror and poison attacks), and Wyverns like Terrorgheists(regen and terrorgheist shriek) etc.

I won't know much about Wurrzag, I can do some research on him and come back, but yeah, savage units make the most sense.

And for Grimgor and Skarsnik, it's a big part of the lore that Grimgor and Skarsnik were named the avatars of Gork and Mork(respectively and vice versa, lol) so maybe some sort of dilemma where they have the option where their respective units(Black Orcs and Night Goblins) can be Cunningly Brutal or Brutally cunning?

What that could look like is the units either get buffs in damage, or buffs in damage resistance, etc.

Originally posted by DeerMunchingByATree:

I think Raknik should also boost Arachnarok spiders and also all lave spider variants, and maybe give his army poison attacks (because spiders). Tbh though I've always thought Raknik was a really cool lord for boosting all the spiders so I might be a bit biased.

I believe Arachnarok Spiders is already a doomstack for greenskins? Please correct me if i am wrong, but that is the reason why they are not getting buffed. The Lava Spider riders will be added to the list tho.

Originally posted by Valthejean:

I definitely agree that range is not the big focus on Greenskins. Do Night Goblin Archers already fire while moving? If not that could be a good addition to Skarsnick, because he's all about them cunning schemes.

This would probably be WAY too overpowered for Grimgor, but maybe his banner could be reworked to give a few minor bonuses to an attached black ork group, but then his level 30 trait could give that Immortalz ability to all black orks in his army. It would definitely make his Immortalz build way more interesting, because confident hero spam is boring. The question is just how to avoid making that insanely strong, maybe something like the effect is lost below 80% leadership or something.

I don't know if this could work: but maybe Grom's army (specifically his goblins and such) could have some sort of "feast" ability where they temporarily are immobile but restore their health. That could be a fun little "mini-cauldron" effect for him if you happened to confederate him.

For Azhag, since his crown comes from the powers of vampires, maybe his units could be given limited uses of a spell from the vampire lore of magic? Or possibly the healing while in melee power most vampires have.

About Night Goblin Archers: The problem is, I can make them Fire while moving, but I cannot (At least I don't think I can) give them 360° Firing Arc via effects. This really limits the utility of "Fire whist Moving".

About Grimgor: That is actually what I have been thinking, so I think I will implement exactly this. Melee Infantry are soooooo bad that I have to give them a lot of "OP" stuff to make them competitive. I actually doubt if a melee Infantry can be overpowered....

About Grom: I think this will be a fun ability, It definitely is possible and I find it pretty cool. The only problem is: to which unit should I bound it to? If I give it to Grom or set it as an army ability, it will benefit all units and Arachnarok Spiders would probably benefit the most from it.
I mean with grom I am probably just going to pick some cauldron effects and just use those, they are already very good. (Otherwise it will make Grom in his own faction too broke)

About Azhag: If I am not mistaken his followers doesn't know about his connection to vampire? It would make no sense for a troll to cast wind of death will it... Giving them the hunger is possible and I will probably do it. And I will definitely try to think about something vampire related for him.

Thank you for your input, they are very appreciated.

Originally posted by benettonkkb:

I think Valthejean brings up some good points.

Would be cool to see his Black Orcs get treated similarly to his Immortulz banner is. I always thought it was strange that only one unit in his army gets this. If this ability was given to Black Orcs at his level 30, it could be allow him to keep a heavily black orc army into the late game, and let them keep up with dragons, artillery etc that are present in the late game.

I think what you've got so far, WRLegion sounds good. I'll just throw out a couple of ideas for color, pick at it as you feel appropriate.

Other than what's mentioned, I think Grom should also buff the pump wagons as well.

For Azhag, yeah it would be cool if he sort of played like a semi-undead army, where he makes the cheap units play like undead. Cheap, Grunt orcs become like buff zombies(hunger and vigor), trolls like Crypt Horrors(bonus v infantry, terror and poison attacks), and Wyverns like Terrorgheists(regen and terrorgheist shriek) etc.

I won't know much about Wurrzag, I can do some research on him and come back, but yeah, savage units make the most sense.

And for Grimgor and Skarsnik, it's a big part of the lore that Grimgor and Skarsnik were named the avatars of Gork and Mork(respectively and vice versa, lol) so maybe some sort of dilemma where they have the option where their respective units(Black Orcs and Night Goblins) can be Cunningly Brutal or Brutally cunning?

What that could look like is the units either get buffs in damage, or buffs in damage resistance, etc.

Yes, I want to give Black Orcs that ability, one of the few things that can make melee infantry viable....

About Grom: I believe pump wagons are built and used by snotlings and not goblins? Please correct me if I am wrong, it would be best if you can tell me where to look at in warhammer wiki.

The real problem is: Grom already has 6 different unit types in his army. And I do believe having even more than that is detrimental rather than incremental. That is why I thought it would be best not to buff pump wagons.

About Azhag: Yes I think his connection to vampire should be empathized. Perhaps I will include Orc Boyz as cheap folder for him.

About Grimgor and Skarsnik: emmmm I thought Cunningly Brutal or Brutally cunning is the same thing? Anyway if I decide to make a dilemma for them, it probably wont be as impactful as the previous ones (You know, with different abilities and style). Greenskins already have 7 lords to work on and it will be a lot if I am to make different abilities for the paths of these two. (It would be something like 9 lords and testing is also a headsache).

All in all I am grateful for your input, very appreciated.

Originally posted by WRLegion:

About Night Goblin Archers: The problem is, I can make them Fire while moving, but I cannot (At least I don't think I can) give them 360° Firing Arc via effects. This really limits the utility of "Fire whist Moving".

About Grimgor: That is actually what I have been thinking, so I think I will implement exactly this. Melee Infantry are soooooo bad that I have to give them a lot of "OP" stuff to make them competitive. I actually doubt if a melee Infantry can be overpowered....

About Grom: I think this will be a fun ability, It definitely is possible and I find it pretty cool. The only problem is: to which unit should I bound it to? If I give it to Grom or set it as an army ability, it will benefit all units and Arachnarok Spiders would probably benefit the most from it.
I mean with grom I am probably just going to pick some cauldron effects and just use those, they are already very good. (Otherwise it will make Grom in his own faction too broke)

About Azhag: If I am not mistaken his followers doesn't know about his connection to vampire? It would make no sense for a troll to cast wind of death will it... Giving them the hunger is possible and I will probably do it. And I will definitely try to think about something vampire related for him.

Thank you for your input, they are very appreciated.

Ah that's a good point, it's a shame too because it would fit well with Skarsnick.

That's also fair about melee infantry, they definitely could use some love. I do think it would need to be the level 30 trait though, just because if he started with it I imagine the AI would just absolutely roll through the whole map. But, I definitely like the idea of him getting a big group of Immortalz rather than just one banner.

For Grom, I would say it should go to goblin units in the army. Sort of encourage a "fall back, replace the front line and have them feast" strategy. Possibly trolls too, but I'm not sure how much Grom interacts with them outside of river hags.

And agreed about Azhag, the typical greenskin probably just assumes he's got some orky magics and that's that. It's hard to say exactly what he should get, but it would be cool to have something to that theme of getting magic powers from Vampires while not really realizing it.

If you made it so that Azhag's wyverns don't rampage I think it would make them much more viable in battle, because even if they have better stats there's no point of using them when they rampage with such a low MD and HP.

Originally posted by Valthejean:

Originally posted by WRLegion:

About Night Goblin Archers: The problem is, I can make them Fire while moving, but I cannot (At least I don't think I can) give them 360° Firing Arc via effects. This really limits the utility of "Fire whist Moving".

About Grimgor: That is actually what I have been thinking, so I think I will implement exactly this. Melee Infantry are soooooo bad that I have to give them a lot of "OP" stuff to make them competitive. I actually doubt if a melee Infantry can be overpowered....

About Grom: I think this will be a fun ability, It definitely is possible and I find it pretty cool. The only problem is: to which unit should I bound it to? If I give it to Grom or set it as an army ability, it will benefit all units and Arachnarok Spiders would probably benefit the most from it.
I mean with grom I am probably just going to pick some cauldron effects and just use those, they are already very good. (Otherwise it will make Grom in his own faction too broke)

About Azhag: If I am not mistaken his followers doesn't know about his connection to vampire? It would make no sense for a troll to cast wind of death will it... Giving them the hunger is possible and I will probably do it. And I will definitely try to think about something vampire related for him.

Thank you for your input, they are very appreciated.

Ah that's a good point, it's a shame too because it would fit well with Skarsnick.

That's also fair about melee infantry, they definitely could use some love. I do think it would need to be the level 30 trait though, just because if he started with it I imagine the AI would just absolutely roll through the whole map. But, I definitely like the idea of him getting a big group of Immortalz rather than just one banner.

For Grom, I would say it should go to goblin units in the army. Sort of encourage a "fall back, replace the front line and have them feast" strategy. Possibly trolls too, but I'm not sure how much Grom interacts with them outside of river hags.

And agreed about Azhag, the typical greenskin probably just assumes he's got some orky magics and that's that. It's hard to say exactly what he should get, but it would be cool to have something to that theme of getting magic powers from Vampires while not really realizing it.

There are a lot of limits as for what "Effects" can do sadly, I cannot give units a new melee weapon (Which will make it easier for me to turn weapons into AP-weapons and give them a contact effect) or give them an extra firing mode.Just have to work around them.

I don't know if these passive abilities are taken into account by the auto resolver, but most abilities and attributes are unlocked at lvl 30 anyway. I believe level 30 is where the main benefit can come in since player is really not in a place to lose by that point.

Ah I thought you meant some kind of aoe ability with the "feast", but yeah I will definitely bound them to all goblin infantry units. I don't think he will be buffing trolls tho. As I have mentioned before, there are already like 6 units in his composition, having even more will probably only be detrimental since some players can't (Well, at least I can't) micro units with that many different roles properly.

I dunno, probably something like "Unnatural Vigour" which will replenish their health and actually bring back dead entities, only a first thought tho.

Originally posted by DeerMunchingByATree:

If you made it so that Azhag's wyverns don't rampage I think it would make them much more viable in battle, because even if they have better stats there's no point of using them when they rampage with such a low MD and HP.

Noted, and I agree that Rampage needs to be removed. I can't "remove" them because that will make my mod incompatible with a lot other mods, but I can add a constant passive that deactivates it.
Thank you.

I'd personally argue for the Goblin Wolf Riders to be removed, to make room for the Pump Wagons for Grom. Chariots are Grom's secondary units, after the normal Goblins. I personally found them very useful throughout my campaigns as Grom, while I never really found a use for the Wolf Riders.

Other than that, I'd suggest that Grimgor gives some buffs to Doom Divers. It would help showcase his disdain for his smaller brethren and add some range to his army.

Love these mods, by the way. They're great.

Originally posted by Greenfyre889:

I'd personally argue for the Goblin Wolf Riders to be removed, to make room for the Pump Wagons for Grom. Chariots are Grom's secondary units, after the normal Goblins. I personally found them very useful throughout my campaigns as Grom, while I never really found a use for the Wolf Riders.

Other than that, I'd suggest that Grimgor gives some buffs to Doom Divers. It would help showcase his disdain for his smaller brethren and add some range to his army.

Love these mods, by the way. They're great.

Well, if anything, this is an argument for the Wolf Riders. The purpose of these mods is to make weak units better and usable. So weaker units are prioritized when choosing who to buff.

For the same reason I am not going to buff Doom Divers. They have like 480 range after scrap upgrade and do pack a punch. I bring them in every army and they feel like very useful even though they are not buffed by anyone.

Looks like you're making good decisions, @WRLegion ! Trust your intuition and I cant wait for the next drop!