Slay the Spire

Slay the Spire

The Human
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
complex  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 8:03am
[Balancing] Feedback and Discussion
If there are any cards/interactions that seem unbalanced or overpowered, please post them here and I will look into them!
Last edited by complex; 29 May, 2021 @ 8:04am
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Showing 1-15 of 40 comments
tuti250 29 May, 2021 @ 2:12pm 
There's still a good amount of polishing to add.

- The effect of Healthiness is not explained. Using only the starter relic it gives me 1 Block when I play a card sometimes and heals me by 1 at the start of the turn sometimes? There's some randomness to it, I can't figure out exactly what it does.
- Pacifist is not explained. My guess is that it triggers if you have no Attack in hand, which leads to weird situations: you play your attacks in order to activate Pacifist effects.
- The junk Old Shoe can be generated infinitely, letting you gain an infinite amount of gold. This is a problem: the optimal way to play becomes a boring grind.
- The Glock 17+1 does not Retain as described.
- Recycle shuffles not only your hand but also your discard pile into your draw pile. It also never seem to draw its own Junk, as if those were added at the bottom of the draw pile without shuffling it.
complex  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 5:39pm 
Originally posted by tuti250:
There's still a good amount of polishing to add.

- The effect of Healthiness is not explained. Using only the starter relic it gives me 1 Block when I play a card sometimes and heals me by 1 at the start of the turn sometimes? There's some randomness to it, I can't figure out exactly what it does.
- Pacifist is not explained. My guess is that it triggers if you have no Attack in hand, which leads to weird situations: you play your attacks in order to activate Pacifist effects.
- The junk Old Shoe can be generated infinitely, letting you gain an infinite amount of gold. This is a problem: the optimal way to play becomes a boring grind.
- The Glock 17+1 does not Retain as described.
- Recycle shuffles not only your hand but also your discard pile into your draw pile. It also never seem to draw its own Junk, as if those were added at the bottom of the draw pile without shuffling it.

- I've updated the description of this mod to include more relevant explanations, thanks for the feedback!

- For the Glock and Recycle, I will fix these issues in the coming update
magpy 30 May, 2021 @ 2:25am 
I broke the game with my first run as the Human. Started out as going for Uncover, and then immediately got good Junk cards, then it all snowballed from there. Infinite gold, infinite energy, infinite health, pretty much. Steamrolled the Heart and actually tanked a big attack from it. While I had Wrath, mind you. You may want to tweak the balance of the Junk package. From my first impressions, it seems like a lot of value. Let me know if your testing concludes otherwise.
complex  [developer] 30 May, 2021 @ 2:35am 
Originally posted by magpy:
I broke the game with my first run as the Human. Started out as going for Uncover, and then immediately got good Junk cards, then it all snowballed from there. Infinite gold, infinite energy, infinite health, pretty much. Steamrolled the Heart and actually tanked a big attack from it. While I had Wrath, mind you. You may want to tweak the balance of the Junk package. From my first impressions, it seems like a lot of value. Let me know if your testing concludes otherwise.

Which cards seemed the most broken? The Junk package is definitely something I'll be looking at in the next update
tonnos100 30 May, 2021 @ 3:26am 
Fun character and many great ideas, but needs some tweaking on the numbers. I got an AWP- Sniper as my first boss reward, and i basicly one shot every enemy, elite and boss after that, especially after i upgraded it to +6-7. I even managed to kill the heart on turn one by removing all its buffs and then shooting it 3 times with the rifle.

I also didnt find many ways to gain healthiness, and those that did give healthiness only gave 1-3 points of it, meaning i never got any higher than just "healthy" in the entire run. The benefits of healthiness was also unclear and didnt seem particulary strong, so i just ignored it; could probably use a buff of some sort.
magpy 30 May, 2021 @ 4:03am 
Originally posted by complex:
Originally posted by magpy:
I broke the game with my first run as the Human. Started out as going for Uncover, and then immediately got good Junk cards, then it all snowballed from there. Infinite gold, infinite energy, infinite health, pretty much. Steamrolled the Heart and actually tanked a big attack from it. While I had Wrath, mind you. You may want to tweak the balance of the Junk package. From my first impressions, it seems like a lot of value. Let me know if your testing concludes otherwise.

Which cards seemed the most broken? The Junk package is definitely something I'll be looking at in the next update
Well...
-Tinker can sometimes loop itself. (Soda Can + Plastic Bottle) Other than that, gives a lot of value.
-Old Boot gives a lot of value over time. Also yeah it can kinda lead to bad and boring play patterns.
-Community Service is also a lot of value. It can also loop with 0-cost attacks.
-Prank should not exist. Hyperbole aside, repeatable, cheap stun is very, very powerful, maybe too powerful. Especially in the same class, heck, even the same game as Plastic Bottle. Same goes for the extra turn skill, although reaching high Healthiness is way harder.
-Car is a really good car-d, even when unupgraded. It's when you upgrade it when it gets a bit much. Some other cards also have this problem of getting their cost reduced and also getting stats like their cost isn't reduced.
magpy 30 May, 2021 @ 4:52am 
Also, Plastic Bottle provides is way too powerful as a 0-cost card. Card recursion is a very powerful effect.
complex  [developer] 30 May, 2021 @ 5:14am 
Originally posted by tonnos100:
Fun character and many great ideas, but needs some tweaking on the numbers. I got an AWP- Sniper as my first boss reward, and i basicly one shot every enemy, elite and boss after that, especially after i upgraded it to +6-7. I even managed to kill the heart on turn one by removing all its buffs and then shooting it 3 times with the rifle.

I also didnt find many ways to gain healthiness, and those that did give healthiness only gave 1-3 points of it, meaning i never got any higher than just "healthy" in the entire run. The benefits of healthiness was also unclear and didnt seem particulary strong, so i just ignored it; could probably use a buff of some sort.
Yes, AWP is going to be nerfed in the coming update, thanks for confirming my thoughts.

Healthiness is described in the description of this workshop item, I'm considering other options but this should suffice temporarily. It is actually quite a complex mechanic!
complex  [developer] 30 May, 2021 @ 5:38am 
Originally posted by magpy:
Originally posted by complex:

Which cards seemed the most broken? The Junk package is definitely something I'll be looking at in the next update
Well...
-Tinker can sometimes loop itself. (Soda Can + Plastic Bottle) Other than that, gives a lot of value.
-Old Boot gives a lot of value over time. Also yeah it can kinda lead to bad and boring play patterns.
-Community Service is also a lot of value. It can also loop with 0-cost attacks.
-Prank should not exist. Hyperbole aside, repeatable, cheap stun is very, very powerful, maybe too powerful. Especially in the same class, heck, even the same game as Plastic Bottle. Same goes for the extra turn skill, although reaching high Healthiness is way harder.
-Car is a really good car-d, even when unupgraded. It's when you upgrade it when it gets a bit much. Some other cards also have this problem of getting their cost reduced and also getting stats like their cost isn't reduced.
I've done some balancing with regards to the above cards (and some others) in the latest, do comment if they are still unbalanced. Thanks!
the Zefarian 1 Jun, 2021 @ 7:44pm 
Just completed a run with this mod
AK might be a bit broken
At the end with the heart I had 2 energy relics, upgraded the AK to +8 so it was 22 x 4 with 21% to crit
that can be played 5 times per turn
Also ended up bottled flaming it
Every enemy that wasn't the heart pretty much dies first turn

I think I understand the design where the empty carts eventually bloat up your deck, but it was much too strong at basically alpha striking enemies.
I'm wondering if changing the mechanic where playing the card returns it to your hand might fix that up
complex  [developer] 1 Jun, 2021 @ 8:58pm 
Originally posted by the Zefarian:
Just completed a run with this mod
AK might be a bit broken
At the end with the heart I had 2 energy relics, upgraded the AK to +8 so it was 22 x 4 with 21% to crit
that can be played 5 times per turn
Also ended up bottled flaming it
Every enemy that wasn't the heart pretty much dies first turn

I think I understand the design where the empty carts eventually bloat up your deck, but it was much too strong at basically alpha striking enemies.
I'm wondering if changing the mechanic where playing the card returns it to your hand might fix that up
AK47 is going to be nerfed in the coming update (it will cost 2), thanks for your feedback! Hopefully the "alpha strike" potential will be lower, as it can now be played only once per turn (at base energy)
moth 2 Jun, 2021 @ 6:54pm 
if you can reduce the cost of a gun to 0 you basically win instantly
complex  [developer] 2 Jun, 2021 @ 7:15pm 
Originally posted by bread(she/they):
if you can reduce the cost of a gun to 0 you basically win instantly
Weapons will not be able to have their cost reduced below 1 in the next update, thanks for the feedback
someguywithahat 6 Jun, 2021 @ 4:46pm 
I had a lot of fun with the mechanics of this guy, but he's definitely on the strong side. I just ran an easy ascension 20 and killed the heart at full health. I'm not sure the game has a way to challenge this character. Still, great work on the mechanics. I have a few other modded characters and enjoyed seeing their cards pop up constantly.

Maybe 'Healthy' should only heal once at the end of combat instead of having a chance with every card/round. Junk is fun, but I was generating it so fast that I was playing 20+ cards a turn and the plastic bottles kept topping me off whenever I ever failed to block anything. Most of the cards could use a little nerfing.
complex  [developer] 6 Jun, 2021 @ 6:52pm 
Originally posted by someguywithahat:
I had a lot of fun with the mechanics of this guy, but he's definitely on the strong side. I just ran an easy ascension 20 and killed the heart at full health. I'm not sure the game has a way to challenge this character. Still, great work on the mechanics. I have a few other modded characters and enjoyed seeing their cards pop up constantly.

Maybe 'Healthy' should only heal once at the end of combat instead of having a chance with every card/round. Junk is fun, but I was generating it so fast that I was playing 20+ cards a turn and the plastic bottles kept topping me off whenever I ever failed to block anything. Most of the cards could use a little nerfing.
Junk has been nerfed in the latest update, do try it and leave feedback if more balancing is required. Thank you!
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