RimWorld

RimWorld

Plate Helmet
Master Lorian  [developer] 26 May, 2021 @ 9:30am
Feedback
Any feedback about texture quality, game balance, and anything else is welcome.
Last edited by Master Lorian; 26 May, 2021 @ 9:31am
< >
Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
No other helmets give movement debuffs, and plate armor already gives -.80. I would suggest maybe an accuracy & small global work speed debuff maybe instead. Still cool tho and added to my mods list.
Last edited by The Federal Government; 26 May, 2021 @ 11:04am
Master Lorian  [developer] 26 May, 2021 @ 11:28am 
I have to agree that the accuracy debuff makes more sense, in both gameplay and realism.
will do.
SteveZero 28 May, 2021 @ 5:37pm 
Given that this is still practically better than a flak Helmet (stats diffs are marginal and plate helmet has more coverage), I suggest you make the accuracy debuff more drastic. Think of it like, can a gunner or archer still accurately shoot a mid/long range with this helmet on? Then it's too OP. Just how putting plate armor on your melee fighters is more advisable to keep your shooters nimble due to the speed debuff. If there was no speed debuff then there would be no reason for not equipping all pawns with plate armor in the early game.
Master Lorian  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 2:36am 
Thanks for the feedback.

The way I am thinking about it is that the protection of a full helmet, just adds the eyes the nose and the jaw. So when it comes to saving a pawns life, the flak helmet is better.
this is the same logic that the plate armor vs flak armor has in general, if you check their stats the plate armor offers more protection to the limbs, and the flak armor offers more protection to the vital areas.
Now when it comes to the debuffs that the helmet should have: I can consider a -1.5 ShootingAccuracy debuff. but anything greater than that will make the helmet completely useless for ranged pawns, since the dps reduction it already causes is already noticeable, and in comparison, the chance to hit an eye/nose/jaw is not even that big in the first place and considering that the only way to protect the eyes is to completely block the projectile since even if they get half the incoming damage they will still get a permanent scar( especially likely to happen since this helmet has only moderate stats)so its not such a great of an edge.

The gunlink for example offers no protection at all, and it is spacer tech, but people still prefer it because of a +3 shooting accuracy that does wonders for the rangers dps.

Because in the end this is the rim, even if you are wearing the best helmet in the game, you can still die in one hit from an unlucky charge lance or sniper shot, so the best defense for your non shield belt colonists is for them to not get hit at all and have the best possible accuracy/dps.

*Edit I raised the debuff to 1.5.

*Edit2 with this change I ran a little test with 2 equally skilled rangers with GreatBows. Both wearing plate armor but the one of the two was wearing a Simple helmet, while the other one was wearing the plate helmet, the distance was around 20 tiles, the ranger with the simple helmet won 13 out of 20 times. It makes sense since the chance of getting hit in the eye is pretty low (did not happen a single time in these 20 duels), and even the slight head armor difference could not make up for the accuracy difference. So i think its fairly safe to say that the flak helmet(which has even more armor rating) is an objectively better and more reliable choice for a ranger for most possible situations, and that the plate helmet is definetly not too OP (even before the additional -0.5 nerf) .

Of course making that claim with only 20 duels to back it up is not very solid on its own, But the numbers seem to agree with it.
Last edited by Master Lorian; 29 May, 2021 @ 7:34am
Master Lorian  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 8:25am 
@SteveZero You are welcome! I always appreciate some good feedback. especially from experienced modders such as yourself.

*edit I also have an obsession with balance. so finding and Installing mods can be a pain sometimes, let alone making them :)

Last edited by Master Lorian; 29 May, 2021 @ 8:35am
SteveZero 29 May, 2021 @ 11:04am 
so right after my last message I got curious, wanted to do some testing (Idk why, but I enjoy running simulations like this), so I deleted it until I could do this test run, you read it too quickly, heh :P.

Anyways, here is my test:
2 pawns at a distance of 37 cells from each other, lvl 20 shooting, marine armor for endurance, one with your plate helmet, one with flak helmet. Weapon of choice, masterwork bolt-action rifle (for the range and for the 100% accuracy weapon at the 37 cell range).

stats-wise accuracy with flak helmet is 99%, with plate helmet its 98.8%.

when hovering over target, you can see what the final accuracy will be, with weapon accuracy, target size, weather and all other debuffs factored in. To make sure the only variable was your plate helmet, I started them off both wearing the plate helmet, before switching one of them to wearing the flak helmet.

While both were wearing plate helmets, both of their accuracy was at 64%. Once I switched one pawn to wear flak helmet. That pawn's accuracy increased to 70%.

I then proceeded to have each pawn take 60 shots each. Pawn with plate helmet missed 22 times. Pawn with flak helmet missed 19 times.

So, not much of a difference I'm afraid. Make of it what you wish, just wanted to share some more test data.
Nonetheless, to re-iterate what I last said, it's great to see small one-piece mods like this so that we can pick just what we want without the extra clutter that usually comes from apparel or armor mods. so +1 to you sir, keep it up (as long as you're enjoying it) :D
Master Lorian  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 11:49am 
I appreciate your testing. so in this particular test the plate helmet pawn had 6% less accuracy than the flak helmet pawn.
In order to have an accurate conclusion on whether this 6% accuracy + the higher armor values are being overcompensated by the plate helmet's cover area we need to make a second test.

As we already know that the flak helmet has these advantages:
6% better accuracy(at this range with this weapon).
5% higher material armor modifier = more protection at the upper head(skull,brain).

the plate helmet has this advantage:
in the slight chance that a bullet or weapon hits an eye/nose/jaw the plate helmet has a chance (depending on armor value) of halving the damage, or an even smaller chance of mitigating the damage.

so we need to make a test in which we shall shoot a pawn with a flak helmet and one with a plate helmet and see which of the 2 is actually the better helmet at actually protect the head(add the damage that passed through) and compare the results with the drop in accuracy.

just by seeing the numbers I think that the flak helmet is going to be the clear winner, but that remains to be seen.
Last edited by Master Lorian; 29 May, 2021 @ 11:59am
SteveZero 29 May, 2021 @ 12:34pm 
Though, one thing we're leaving out of the picture is the fact that the plate helmet is made purely out of steel, where-as the flak helmet is made partially out of plasteel. A more reasonable comparison would be to the steel simple helmet at 45% armor rating. So perhaps, an armor rating between a steel simple helmet and a steel flak helmet at 54% is more reasonable. With a -2 accuracy debuff.
Last edited by SteveZero; 29 May, 2021 @ 12:46pm
Master Lorian  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 2:07pm 
as far as the lore in concerned we can just say that the plate helmet is just thicker than the simple and it would make sense(plate thickness makes a huge difference and steel plates can even stop a .50cal if thick enough(not applicable to a helmet) the main advantage of plasteel would be the weigh/size reduction to achieve the same results).

all three helmets can be also made by uranium and plasteel (but the difference in armor rating scaling remains the same), so that is not really an issue.

I also have some numbers from the test here.(the more shots the more accurate the test but this is what i have atm).
i shot 25 headshots (assault rifle bullets) to both normal steel plate helmet and flak and healed after every shot.

Plate
total damage recieved 200.
total eye damage 11
brain damage 34
nose damage 18
just head damage 94
ear damage 16
jaw damage 27
blocked shots 3
deaths(brain) 2

Flak
total damage recieved 190
eye damage 49
brain damage 16
justhead damage 59
ear damage 22
nose damage 28
jaw damage 16
blocked shots 4
deaths(brain) 1

So the Two helmets were very close in damage absorption despite the bigger coverage of the plate.

now add the -1.5 shooting accuracy and the flak is the better choice by far for rangers.
now if the plate helmet had even lower defence rating and -2 shooting accuracy it would be a E tier helmet for Rangers also a worse choice for melee pawns too if the flak helmet was unlocked. so it would not be a meaningful choice, it would not even worth the upgrade from the simple helmet, since it would be marginally better for melee pawns and trash for rangers.

Many players including me prefer a gunlink over a cataphract helmet for their rangers, it looks highly unlinkely for someone to prefere a reverse gunlink helmet that has similar or even worse stats than the other option.

But well. its not uncommon for people to arrive at different conclusions with the same data, its called opinion , and will the limitations we currently have (since we cant just grab the c# code and calculate the math) its as far as we(at least I) can go.
Last edited by Master Lorian; 29 May, 2021 @ 2:40pm
SteveZero 29 May, 2021 @ 2:43pm 
ah, I see where you're coming from with it now. It's current stats make sense if your goal was to create a helmet that is a viable choice for both rangers and melee fighters. I was under the assumption you were going for a more realistic approach where you wouldn't see a modern day soldier or a medieval archer wearing a knight's plate helmet capable of protecting the eyes, nose, and jaw. Mainly in both cases because of the drastic reduction in vision.

Fair enough then. :)
Master Lorian  [developer] 29 May, 2021 @ 2:49pm 
Yep. definetly no modern, but some crossbowmen wore plate helmets(Sallets).
like this.
https://www.google.com/search?q=crossbowme+helme&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi9zs2p7-_wAhUwwQIHHWRcC5EQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=crossbowme+helme&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQA1CTIFjUK2DKLWgAcAB4AIABYogBvgSSAQE2mAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=wrayYL3lJrCCi-gP5LitiAk&bih=927&biw=918&client=opera&hs=vop#imgrc=8ucz448myzuEGM

*Edit but I also tried to make the flak an objectively better choice for rangers for both game balance reasons and reason reasons. :D
Last edited by Master Lorian; 29 May, 2021 @ 2:57pm
S 19 Dec, 2022 @ 5:39am 
I'm really loving this mod! I'm playing on a save themed around a blacksmith character, and this is perfect.

One problem I had though is that traders and trade ships are all unwilling to buy plate helmets, and I haven't seen any that offer them in trades.
Master Lorian  [developer] 23 Jun, 2023 @ 6:52am 
Fixed. Sorry i did not get to it earlier.
Last edited by Master Lorian; 26 Jun, 2023 @ 1:26pm
< >
Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Per page: 1530 50