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Total War: ROME II - Emperor Edition >  Workshop > Phalangitis's Workshop > Sell Your Slaves > Discussions
Sell Your Slaves
Description Discussions3 Comments449 Change Notes
Phalangitis  [developer] 23 Jun, 2014 @ 11:41am
Details on how "slave price" was formed
We have some facts..1) A Trireme according to varius sources costed roughly 10 talants.
In the game the cost is 500 credits.So there is a difference of 50x the talant value.
2) A slave could buy his own freedom in periods of extreme danger for the nation with the cost of 5 mne which was the 1/12 of talant.
3)Now in a province of 60% slave population with a slavery building of max level you can get arround 50,000 credits from their sale right now in 4-5 turns (not every turn all profits combined).A province of 50% slave population will produce every turn arround 1200-1500 gold from this population according to some people (i never had so many slaves in my games so i dont know)
4) this is equal as 1000 talants or 100 Triremes (in ancient times not in game).So 60%population of a province (the number is hudge just imagine how many people this number is..) for 100 triremes or two years of the income of Athenian league (which was arround 600 talands a year).A number logical as we see in history.Spartans they could fund their whole expedition if they would sell Athenians as slaves after their defeat but they refused.This shows the big amounts of money earned from selling slaves.
5)Finaly roughly from selling you get the sum of money you would earn from them in 8 years of service if someone chose to keep them (with a 4tpy mod that is).Which also is logical.If you keep a slave you exploit his work for the rest of his life.So if you sell you need 8-10 years of work gain as a payment.
As it concludes from 4) and 5) this mods price is totaly logical and historical accurate.Nations used much less number of slave ransom to make up much larger sums of money in history.Slaves were the economic power of ancient world.Persia had 1,000,000 talands in its treasury during Alexanders time.THis equals to 50,000,000 credits of game money.Nevertheless i am thinking of slightly reducing the price to make it more game friendly.Thoughts?
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Showing 1-15 of 29 comments
DionCaesar 23 Jun, 2014 @ 3:43pm 
Nice story here, I really liked reading this!
I made 27k in 2 turns, after I defeated ~6 armies in battle and put all the captives in chains. I think this is a little too much, at least for game standards. Personally, I'd be happy with half the profit.
Last edited by DionCaesar; 23 Jun, 2014 @ 3:44pm
#1
Phalangitis  [developer] 23 Jun, 2014 @ 10:14pm 
ok i will reduce it a bit but 27000 afer 6 battles is very logical.Alexander after one battle alone earned 150,000 talants which is 7,500,000 game cresits..
#2
Matvei 24 Jun, 2014 @ 6:12am 
Well written facts, thanks.
You have to remember, that to have the edict you must own the province. Playing Athens, Sparta is my independant Mil Ally (no edict there) and I have most of 6 provinces extending into Turky... I can only call the edict in ex Macedonian Pellas while the Slaves revolt everywhere else (i don't mind it but still). The money bumb is quite small relative to the slave problem i'm having, so it's a good enough edict as it is (there is no logical reason to either release or kill captives other than the rare revolts they cause).
I could understand that for example Rome would skyrocket on slave selling with their full Italian province at the wery start... Thus for most factions the edict is quite balanced, but for most players it's OP (most players play the big countries).

P.S. did you think of adding those infamy effects or traits?
#3
Phalangitis  [developer] 24 Jun, 2014 @ 6:29am 
no i havent thought about it but i will check it out.I am afraid if i reduce the price more (i have already done it once) with populations below 30% the sum of money will be too small.Also i am prepairing a mod (will be live in a few hours i am game testing) that increases the expence of war.While in a foreign territory you will suffer additional upkeep costs also affected by seasons..So we will need the extra cash..I am trying to find the perfect balance still..
P.S How much does your slave population raises after an enslavement of loosers in a battle?
P.S2 thanks for posting whenever you have something to note feel free you only improving this mod
#4
Matvei 24 Jun, 2014 @ 6:39am 
There is already a infamy effect that raised slave unrest by 100%. The choices are: kill or free some slaves or "do nothing" I had -54 slave unrest:Perseverance:
#5
Phalangitis  [developer] 24 Jun, 2014 @ 7:02am 
Mabey that was a random event.I never experienced anything like it..Do you notice this often?
#6
Phalangitis  [developer] 24 Jun, 2014 @ 7:02am 
on the contrary my edict lowers slave unrest as to the fact that they leave the province..
#7
Matvei 24 Jun, 2014 @ 7:06am 
first time, but it was in a Galatia et Gappadocia province and there i had 67% procent slave popultaion. I've never had it so high... In the description of the event it did say, that (nobles) were worried about the ammout of the slaves
#8
Matvei 24 Jun, 2014 @ 7:13am 
Originally posted by Phalangitis:
on the contrary my edict lowers slave unrest as to the fact that they leave the province..
The province did not have your edict active, propably should have mentioned it...
#9
Phalangitis  [developer] 24 Jun, 2014 @ 7:22am 
i guess that was a random event like earthquakes floods fires etc.No worries
#10
Matvei 24 Jun, 2014 @ 8:43am 
Originally posted by Phalangitis:
P.S How much does your slave population raises after an enslavement of loosers in a battle?
Playing as Baktria I had 7% and 11% Slave economic effect.
I looted Karth took 672 prisoners endin up with 28% and 32% slave economic effect (39% and 46% slave population respectivly).
Kath itself had that same turn 10.5% economic effect and 16.5% slave popultion.
Both Baktrian provinces are Capital and minor city of level 2 (main building) if that matters.
P.S. Baktria Starts with 12% Slave economic effect in both provinces.
#11
DionCaesar 24 Jun, 2014 @ 8:44am 
Originally posted by Phalangitis:
no i havent thought about it but i will check it out.I am afraid if i reduce the price more (i have already done it once) with populations below 30% the sum of money will be too small.Also i am prepairing a mod (will be live in a few hours i am game testing) that increases the expence of war.While in a foreign territory you will suffer additional upkeep costs also affected by seasons..So we will need the extra cash..I am trying to find the perfect balance still..
P.S How much does your slave population raises after an enslavement of loosers in a battle?
P.S2 thanks for posting whenever you have something to note feel free you only improving this mod
Oh wow, I'm looking forward to that !

I think something we have to keep in mind is that the in game costs can't be all directly relate back to the cost of triremes. I think buildings are relatively cheap, so with the slaves you can build many more buildings than Alexander or Darius in their time could.

But with your second mod we could indeed use the money! :)
#12
Phalangitis  [developer] 24 Jun, 2014 @ 9:04am 
Originally posted by matvei1293:
Originally posted by Phalangitis:
P.S How much does your slave population raises after an enslavement of loosers in a battle?
Playing as Baktria I had 7% and 11% Slave economic effect.
I looted Karth took 672 prisoners endin up with 28% and 32% slave economic effect (39% and 46% slave population respectivly).
Kath itself had that same turn 10.5% economic effect and 16.5% slave popultion.
Both Baktrian provinces are Capital and minor city of level 2 (main building) if that matters.
P.S. Baktria Starts with 12% Slave economic effect in both provinces.
With these important points i think i must lower the price more.Let me check it with the new mod and let you know soon..Unfortunately i am working right now and cannot check the balance of the mods..
#13
Matvei 24 Jun, 2014 @ 9:40am 
Originally posted by Phalangitis:
With these important points i think i must lower the price more.

Another way of calculating the price of the slaves:

A mimimun price of a given ammount of slaves should be no less than: an ammount three times more than the recruitment cost and single turns upkeep expence of an elite unit (160 soldiers) (1000x3 gold).
3X means a realistic price for human life (compared to recruitment cost). Because all unit's captives are treated the same the "elite unit" price range makes a "fits all" solution.
The Sell Slaves edict would with these considerations give the "they bought theirs sons out of captivity" income justification (i think you only get captives from battles, even when looting settlements).

P.S. If there is a way of taking into account the unit size setting? I play on Ultra, maybe i get more of captives than intended by you.

P.P.S So the 672 captives would have netted me a minimum of 12600 (672/160x3000) not counting the corruption and piracy of the later tuns. Seems like a reasonable minimum. A markup would not be out of place.
#14
Phalangitis  [developer] 24 Jun, 2014 @ 10:08am 
Originally posted by matvei1293:
Originally posted by Phalangitis:
With these important points i think i must lower the price more.

Another way of calculating the price of the slaves:

A mimimun price of a given ammount of slaves should be no less than: an ammount three times more than the recruitment cost and single turns upkeep expence of an elite unit (160 soldiers) (1000x3 gold).
3X means a realistic price for human life (compared to recruitment cost). Because all unit's captives are treated the same the "elite unit" price range makes a "fits all" solution.
The Sell Slaves edict would with these considerations give the "they bought theirs sons out of captivity" income justification (i think you only get captives from battles, even when looting settlements).

P.S. If there is a way of taking into account the unit size setting? I play on Ultra, maybe i get more of captives than intended by you.

P.P.S So the 672 captives would have netted me a minimum of 12600 (672/160x3000) not counting the corruption and piracy of the later tuns. Seems like a reasonable minimum. A markup would not be out of place.
excellent analysis will think it out a bit because i am working now and get back to you..
#15
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