I am not sure if the Oblast Elks Sleds RoR from https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2810508859

should cost 2 rare point. The base unit is only 3 Special Point. In general I feel that RoR should only cost 1 more or if the upgrade is minor, cost the same as base unit.

I think the official RoR for Kislev cost the same with Tzar Guard Great Weapon?

Originally posted by Pink Elephant:

I am not sure if the Oblast Elks Sleds RoR from https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/filedetails/?id=2810508859

should cost 2 rare point. The base unit is only 3 Special Point. In general I feel that RoR should only cost 1 more or if the upgrade is minor, cost the same as base unit.

I think the official RoR for Kislev cost the same with Tzar Guard Great Weapon?

Yes, in general, the RoR versions cost the same as their non-RoR, but are not too qualitatively different. I might have overdone it with the Elks, but they have pretty heavy stats! I will test them out a bit more and consider lowering their cost down to match their non-RoR version, or maybe just 1 Rare.

So I've tested the Elk Sled RoR a bit more and I'm inclined to leave it at 2 Rare. It's a beast of a unit! Particularly if you use its spells at the right times, it can tank away an entire flank without much trouble. The enemy really needs to focus it, and get a bunch of anti-large or artillery to counter it. Not only that, if you take a light sled along it will replenish ammo and do other neat tricks. It is better than a Heavy Sleds unit, and if handled right, can do much more damage than the tier 1 Rare units. So I think I'll leave it at 2 Rare for now, unless Snek nerfs it a bit.

Notes for Loupi's ROR pack: (Updated, thanks DaKatarn for tests and feedback!)
-Core
Ironhail and Strelsi remain at Core.

-Special
Bloodcrushers stay at 2.
Khorne Minotaurs stay at 3.
Jade Lancers stay at 1.
Nurgle Berserkers are 2 (up from 1 in the Norsca roster).
Forsaken Knights are 2 (matching other Knights).
Ironguts are 2 (up from 1).
Chariot is 1 (matching Goblin Wolf Chariot in Greenskin roster).
Gryphon Legion is 3 (up from 2).

-Rare
Fiends are 1 Rare (up from Special).
Slaanesh Soul Grinder is 3 (up from 2).
Heartseeker stays at 2.
Khorne Spawn stays at 1
Foot Knights of Tzeentch are 2 (up from 2 Special).
Burning Chariot is 3 (up from 2).
Doom Knights are 3 (up from 2).
Longma Riders stay at 2.
Plague Drones are 2 (up from 1).
Ironblaster stays at 2.
Bear Riders are 1 (up from 3 Special).

I haven't tested these out in battle - your feedback is invaluable for me to adjust these. I went with stats and abilities, trying to keep a semblance of balance. Loupi says that some of these are meant to be fun rather than balanced, so maybe these rules will even them out.

ROR always cost the same as the base unit, but they don't really do much that is different from the original (besides, you only get one, so that's not so hard on balance). These ones are wildly varied and many of them (as you can see with the Rare units) can do stuff that the base unit simply cannot. Even if you can only get one of these, they seem like the kind of units that can turn battles around, which is why I might have over-corrected. That's why your feedback will help!

Hey Captain, this is my feedback for Loupi ROR units:

-CATHAY

Jade Lancers (down to 1 Special)
Longma Riders (down to 2 Rare) no gamechanger and Cathay needs Rare point for Artillery

-KISLEV

Streltsi (up to 1 Special), this unit is very strong imo
Bear riders ( 3 special), rare seems to me too strong

-SLAANESH

Fiend ( 1 rare), a new role with stalker and this roster don't have a lot of Rare

-OGRE

Ironblaster (1 rare)

-NURGLE/KHORNE/TZEENTCH

All is good

Originally posted by DaKatarn:

Hey Captain, this is my feedback for Loupi ROR units:

-CATHAY

Jade Lancers (down to 1 Special)
Longma Riders (down to 2 Rare) no gamechanger and Cathay needs Rare point for Artillery

-KISLEV

Streltsi (up to 1 Special), this unit is very strong imo
Bear riders ( 3 special), rare seems to me too strong

-SLAANESH

Fiend ( 1 rare), a new role with stalker and this roster don't have a lot of Rare

-OGRE

Ironblaster (1 rare)

-NURGLE/KHORNE/TZEENTCH

All is good

Thanks DaKatarn, this helps a lot. I agree with your assessment for the most part. The Ironblaster default cost is 2 rare, so I'm keen to keep it the same :)

Would Bear Riders 1 Rare instead of 2 feel too costly, too?

Originally posted by Captain Freakout:

Thanks DaKatarn, this helps a lot. I agree with your assessment for the most part. The Ironblaster default cost is 2 rare, so I'm keen to keep it the same :)

Would Bear Riders 1 Rare instead of 2 feel too costly, too?

You'r welcome, it's a pleasure!

1/ In my game Ironblaster has a 1 rare defaut cost, it' why I suggest thi cost for the ROR version.

2/ I have a doubt about the Streltsi, after more test I think 1 base is good ( the faster reload time don't balance the dps by shot).

Yeah I change my mind (maybe the whispers of Tzeentch :p)

3/ 1 Rare seems a good compromise, maybe too costly but better than 2.
I think we can compare with Gryphon Legion and his ROR version ( 2 special and 3 special).

Originally posted by DaKatarn:

Originally posted by Captain Freakout:

Thanks DaKatarn, this helps a lot. I agree with your assessment for the most part. The Ironblaster default cost is 2 rare, so I'm keen to keep it the same :)

Would Bear Riders 1 Rare instead of 2 feel too costly, too?

You'r welcome, it's a pleasure!

1/ In my game Ironblaster has a 1 rare defaut cost, it' why I suggest thi cost for the ROR version.

2/ I have a doubt about the Streltsi, after more test I think 1 base is good ( the faster reload time don't balance the dps by shot).

Yeah I change my mind (maybe the whispers of Tzeentch :p)

3/ 1 Rare seems a good compromise, maybe too costly but better than 2.
I think we can compare with Gryphon Legion and his ROR version ( 2 special and 3 special).

This is great, thanks! Are you sure you're not using Naeven's special rules for LLs or anything like that? Because I just checked and Ironblasters are 2 Rare. Or make sure it's not the Scraplauncher what you're looking at :)

I also went with the idea you had about comparing the Gryphons with the Bears and yes, 1 Rare seems about right. I'll do the update today, thanks for the feedback!

Originally posted by Captain Freakout:

Originally posted by DaKatarn:

You'r welcome, it's a pleasure!

1/ In my game Ironblaster has a 1 rare defaut cost, it' why I suggest thi cost for the ROR version.

2/ I have a doubt about the Streltsi, after more test I think 1 base is good ( the faster reload time don't balance the dps by shot).

Yeah I change my mind (maybe the whispers of Tzeentch :p)

3/ 1 Rare seems a good compromise, maybe too costly but better than 2.
I think we can compare with Gryphon Legion and his ROR version ( 2 special and 3 special).

This is great, thanks! Are you sure you're not using Naeven's special rules for LLs or anything like that? Because I just checked and Ironblasters are 2 Rare. Or make sure it's not the Scraplauncher what you're looking at :)

I also went with the idea you had about comparing the Gryphons with the Bears and yes, 1 Rare seems about right. I'll do the update today, thanks for the feedback!

It's a real mystery, I use only SFO, cap mod, ROR mod, your mod and ROR SFO mod.

Ironblaster stills 1 rare, the only 2 rare in the Ogre roster are for the two version of Stonehorn. I have a screenshot if need.

Originally posted by DaKatarn:

Originally posted by Captain Freakout:

This is great, thanks! Are you sure you're not using Naeven's special rules for LLs or anything like that? Because I just checked and Ironblasters are 2 Rare. Or make sure it's not the Scraplauncher what you're looking at :)

I also went with the idea you had about comparing the Gryphons with the Bears and yes, 1 Rare seems about right. I'll do the update today, thanks for the feedback!

It's a real mystery, I use only SFO, cap mod, ROR mod, your mod and ROR SFO mod.

Ironblaster stills 1 rare, the only 2 rare in the Ogre roster are for the two version of Stonehorn. I have a screenshot if need.

It might be the interaction between SFO and the caps, I think SFO includes a version of it, so they might have lowered the cost to 1 Rare. If you check the site list approved by DrunkFlamingo, Ironblasters are 2 Rare: https://ttc-costs.surge.sh/.

Well, no matter. I've done the update, thanks a lot for the feedback, please let me know if you have more!

Note for maffers' Bretonnian Brigands: Though their stats might not reflect it, I decided to make the units Special and Rare for loreful reasons: these would not be standard units for any of the current Bretonnian generals. Maffers has hinted at a possible Lord mod - if that gets made, I can make a Special Rule (like with Strat's Gnoblar Head Honcho) for a prospective Brigand Lord (or Lady).

Note for ChaosRobie's "Moulder's Menagerie": As a guide I followed the White Dwarf #113 rules from where ChaosRobie took the units: they all adjust to the category from the rules. Afterward, I settled on these Rare point costs based on the unit costs detailed therein.

Of course, Stormfiends are completely new, but since they seem to be pretty powerful I gave them highest cap cost.

Note for Lily's Repanse: Lily already balanced this around peasants, but I'm very conscious that vanilla TTC Bretonnia costs would somewhat limit her roster further. I decided to make a small but perhaps significant change in that regard: once you level her up a bit and get the Eternal Errantry War skill, Grail Reliquae, which are great support for peasant armies, see their TTC cost reduced to 1 Special. This will allow you to field more buffs per army while still having interesting choices regarding the Dragonslayer Squires, Grail Companions, and the regular vanilla Special units.

If you play Repanse, please let me know how this works out, and if it's not too OP.

Note for Dark Omen & Shadow of the Horned Rat RoR:

In the spirit of the rules designed by the mod creators regarding upkeep and recruitment costs, I decided to increase the TTC costs across the board to further signal the uniqueness of these units. Generally speaking, they cost one more point than their vanilla or base RoR counterparts. Core units are, of course, not affected.

Commander Morgan Bernhardt enjoys some special rules (tied to the Klaus skill). These consist of two effects: 1) All TTC costs are reduced by 1 point, bringing these units back on par with their vanilla or base RoR counterparts. 2) Grudgebringer Infantry and Cavalry become Core units solely for him.

All of this is balanced in a more theoretical than practical way, so please test it out and give me some feedback if possible.

Note for Cult of Slaanesh:

Like Selian, I followed the Storm of Chaos rules, in which Warriors are Special and Knights are Rare. Aspiring Champions are Heroes in the army list, so I made them Rare as well. The Devoted are Core.