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Hearts of Iron IV >  Workshop > leteo39's Workshop > NRM II Latest > Discussions
NRM II Latest
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 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
leteo39  [developer] 29 Jun, 2022 @ 9:43pm
So, this took a few hours...
I have noticed that there're secondaries versions of the medium guns for heavy cruisers that actually do light attack rather than heavy, the values are the same, but it's not possible to use them for any ship I can make, I've never tried to make any super battleships and now that I'm looking to make one because that's the only type of ship I think could carry such "secondaries" I cannot find any hint of how to make such a design... not even after researching the best BB hull and some 460mm guns... so IDK what those secondaries are for...

I've thought about tweaking some stuff regarding the attack values for the main batteries to make them do both light and heavy damage, but IDK what to do with such values for such adjustments require extensive testing, otherwise we might end with a broken ship that can do anything and can be spammed... as such I encourage you to do the test yourself, if you know where to adjust the values for the equipment in the files... otherwise you'll have to wait for me to run some tests, because it's never the less an endeavour I find worth following.

Other than that, it's done I'll be uploading in a little, but there're some other tweaks I always wanted to do, like adding a small percentage buff to the spotter planes for both light and heavy attack for the ships, so you have a reason to put them in your BB's like in real life, given how they were not just used to spot but also for gunnery, later on you'd replace them with radar and that spot can be used for something else...

Also thinking about adding a few ship sprites from Lamp's equipment icons to the mod so that these are available, like the panzershiffe Deutschland Klasse, because you can't choose that sprite even if you have both mods activated because it's a special class of ship... IDK about other ships that would have the same problem giving how I'm, once again, a basic ♥♥♥♥♥ that only plays Germany... so you ppl would have to tell me...

Also added a couple of new icons for some traits that didn't have any, the new spotter and seawolf traits from this mod...

Let me know what you ppl think about such ideas and I'll see if I put the time onto it...
Last edited by leteo39; 30 Jun, 2022 @ 4:44pm
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Showing 1-15 of 28 comments
Enola_Straight 30 Jun, 2022 @ 12:40am 
As far as i know, heavy cruiser guns that are used in secondary battery are only installed on capital conversion carrier hull (for example, IJN Kaga and IJN Akagi).
#1
Enola_Straight 30 Jun, 2022 @ 2:45am 
Regarding giving light attack and piercing to heavy cruiser guns, i think that at the moment light attack could be 1/3 of heavy attack and light piercing - 1/2 of heavy piercing.
#2
leteo39  [developer] 30 Jun, 2022 @ 4:45pm 
little edit change because even though I proof read that whole testament I still left something out... I meant adding a small buff to spotter planes on the third paragraph...
#3
Enola_Straight 1 Jul, 2022 @ 2:12am 
I personally think that buffing spotter planes is a good idea. By the way, have you thought about updating the Battle carrier mod for the newest version of Naval Rework? Also, if you are going to add equipment names for countries that don't have them, i may be able to help with finding information (on Soviet guns at least).
#4
leteo39  [developer] 1 Jul, 2022 @ 11:00am 
Localisation is easy, so if you have such info I think I can spare the time to do so for whatever nations you find, also, I'm reading about the intended use of heavy cruisers and as you said, they were primarily to fight other cruisers and smaller vessels... so I think that there're 2 possibilities:

1. Reducing overall heavy attack and giving them the same amount of light attack to reflect that they were still meant to fight other heavy cruisers as well.

2. Reducing heavy attack significantly and giving a higher light attack value to reflect that they'd go for screens first (as intended IRL). This considering that the game literally makes heavy attack be directed at capital ships (CA, BC, BB) but be intercepted by screens, while light attack is directed specifically at screens. After all screens are out, I think light attack also starts damaging capital ships? if that's the case that more than justifies the medium 8inch/200mm guns having more light attack than heavy attack.

Let me know what you think. also, quality of life update incoming.
#5
Enola_Straight 1 Jul, 2022 @ 1:08pm 
A lot of information on navy guns can be found on navweaps com. Anyway, at some point i'll probably make a list of names that could be added. Also, regarding names: i think that UK 4.5 inch guns should be in 115-130 mm category rather than in 90-114 mm because they had a really heavy shell (heavier than 4.7 inch Mk IX guns that belong in 115-130 mm category in the mod). As you mentioned, it's not hard to do but you'll need to change design of HMS Ark Royal (and maybe other ships as well). Although, the 90-115 DP guns will need some other name if 4.5 inch guns are taken.
As for balance, i don't really know since i lack experience with NRM game meta (and HoI 4 naval meta too). I guess that right now the simplest change would be giving light/heavy attack bonus to floatplanes (something small like 5%) (Nevermind, i somehow missed that you already did that)
Last edited by Enola_Straight; 5 Jul, 2022 @ 7:39am
#6
Enola_Straight 1 Jul, 2022 @ 1:15pm 
Also, light carrier hulls can't use secondary guns aside from high-angle and double purpose ones. I think that giving them ability to mount small amount of secondary guns would be realistic (although i'm not sure if it's hard to do or if it'll affect balance in negative way). It affects ships like HMS Hermes and IJN Hosho since in real life they had 5,5 inch guns and 140 mm guns.
#7
Enola_Straight 1 Jul, 2022 @ 1:25pm 
I also had an idea to give some countries decisions to recomission ships that historically were used for training and other purposes. Obviously, nothing too unrealistic. For example, in real life HMS Iron Duke was used for training (and as AA battery if i'm not mistaken) with reduced armament and armor but theoretically could be brought back into service (not really likely though).
#8
Enola_Straight 2 Jul, 2022 @ 3:33pm 
Noticed a possible mistake with cruising range on cruisers and light aircraft carriers: medium-long cruising range gives a 1.1% increase to production cost. Since medium cruising range gives an increase in 7.5%, that looks wrong.
#9
Enola_Straight 3 Jul, 2022 @ 4:47am 
I think that it's worth changing advanced medium AA guns so that their research could be started sooner
Last edited by Enola_Straight; 5 Jul, 2022 @ 7:40am
#10
Enola_Straight 5 Jul, 2022 @ 7:44am 
In road to 56 they even gave some small amount of light attack to AA guns. Could this be done here?
#11
Enola_Straight 6 Jul, 2022 @ 5:56am 
I hope i don't come off as obnoxious because of the amount of messages.
#12
leteo39  [developer] 8 Jul, 2022 @ 8:39pm 
I have decided upon some changes for the CA attack stats, go ahead and test these and see what happens.

I won't be changing that stuff you mentioned for the brits because, unfortunately, this is not ultimate admirals dreadnought, there will always have to be a certain level of abstraction. By doing such a change it just wouldn't fit the current in-mod system of gun caliber and research and might make things confusing for players not so knowledgeable about naval guns.

I won't be adding secondaries for light carrier and cruiser conversions given how while trying to do so I realised that the game already provides a small amount of light attack and light piercing to the high angle batteries that these types of ships can equip and that the models you mentioned already have in the start date, which seems very much in line with the historical models.

I have noticed that the USA starting carriers all have a cruiser conversion hull rather than a capital conversion for the Lexinton and saratoga which would also provide the chance to equip them with their 8inc secondaries much like their japanese counterparts, but also the fact that the CV ranger is not a light carrier, which is pretty much what it was, given how it was planned as a carrier from the very start. You can expect me fixing that at one point in the future.

I won't change the starting date of the advanced AAA, because these would enter the conflict late in the war starting around 1943 and seeing combat in 1944 most likely, like it did in the pacific, specially with their new proximity fused ammo.

AAA modules that go on top need no light attack because they simply don't have the range to actually be effective in such cases. it'd be more of a morale thing rather than effective, given how any ship stupid enough to get close enough to any ship that can fire it's 20mm/37mm AAA guns at them and actually penetrate and do damage with what's mostly HE ammo should've already sunk their opposition or had been sunk in themselves by either main/secondary batteries or torpedoes.
#13
Enola_Straight 9 Jul, 2022 @ 5:29am 
Fair points, i guess. I have a suggestion regarding Netherlands navy. Right now, their cruisers De Ruyter and Tromp have improved cruiser hulls. I think that Interwar cruiser hulls would be more appropriate for them because both ships were laid down in 1930's. As far as know, improved hulls cover ships laid down in 1920's.
Last edited by Enola_Straight; 10 Jul, 2022 @ 9:25am
#14
Enola_Straight 10 Jul, 2022 @ 10:38am 
Also, i think that the amount of navy experience needed to change ships could be reduced. From 3 per module to 2, for example.
#15
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