Say, if the only downside to the Flail Stance is reduced accuracy, how would this work with Haymaker?

Originally posted by AarkNoa:

Say, if the only downside to the Flail Stance is reduced accuracy, how would this work with Haymaker?

You would always hit, but never crit.

@Cleric Just finished a game using this and it was a huge boon to warrior and good fun, but of course got notes.

1# Shield bash is affected by silence in the same way thrown shield is which has always been weird. It also seems to get range when equipped with a wand letting you smack people 12-20m away.

2# Blade Trail's indicator gets blocked by the first person it hits. Could be mistaken but don't think Marksman fang did the same.

3# Headbutt Give's max rage and self knockdown which in theory would synergize with the shout and stance that cause you to get up after knock down but they also give max rage which reduces this synergy. If it caused knockdown that pierced enemy armor it'd be dope getting a CC off on a enemy at start instead of end of fight, and if it didn't give max rage it'd better have better synergy with the abilities to recover from knockdown and better justify spending source on it. One or both these would help its case, as it is I never used it.

#4 Decapitate being added 2-3x a fight could be a touch annoying. Useful to knowing when you had max rage maybe but I wouldn't miss it if it was just permanently known. Maybe a more clear Icon for max rage as-well.

#5 Earthshaker is hella strong and seemed like the most "source" like ability. I think I'd make it a source skill.

#6 Never used any of the shouts except Berserk. Seemed to situational, unnecessary, or bad, except Berserk, which could be so strong I phased it out in later acts when I was getting OP.
"On Your Knee's" is especially heinous in that it cost 2 ap for just a status condition, for an enemy that's already had their armor broken and been crippled. If it was Aoe it might of had some merit, but even than there are other aoe knock downs that deal dmg. Think it should cost 1 ap or it'll never see use.

#7 Stances are mixed bag though trending OP.
--Endure Pain-- No downside and Hp is often pointless. Just free boost.
--Sprint-- Fan-♥♥♥♥♥♥-tastic, with no downside.
--Flail-- Has some potential, but if realized quickly shifts to OP with no downside. Single Handed weapons get great Ac gains, get enough and you can just take a free 75% dmg boost. With daggers and haymaker it becomes kinda a cool idea, since daggers really fall off when every one starts gettin 100% crit any ways and or you don't have to position any more.
--Freenzy-- Ok I kinda like this one. The game heavily favors dmg though so its still weighted, but could make you a priority target to get nuked and I think it included loss of physical resistance?
--Frenzied Defense-- Reduces any worry (especially for dual wielders) about physical dmg to necromancers which are easily anticipated, so its a bit much.
--Stead Stance-- No downside, 20% more physical armor and CC resistance with rage?. Also steps on "I meant to do that" for Headbutt Synergy. I like it but think its to much.
--Disciplined Stance-- Kinda like this one though the 75% is a bit much. I've not used it but a source for reflect for non shield users besides the one belt at the cost of all movement is decent and better if it effects ai targeting to make em favor the front line.
--Protector's Defense-- Kinda like this one too since it'll cause weapon units to prioritize you're shield dude which is what you want.

Some thoughts I had while writing this for stances.
--Endure Pain-- Not sure it can be implemented but it sounded cool in my head.
Physical armor and Magical armor become HP, with a 3 cc shield. Far as the Ai is concerned you just lit a big neon sign saying ♥♥♥♥ me up. Stance ends when you take to many CC's. Might actually have to spec into constitution with this one.
--Sprint-- Make it start as a 1ap movement ability that ends with the stance. Like bulls rush, only with a big movement buff and potentially set up for Wild Blow.
--Flail-- Either a gamble or OP, could have cool niche use with haymaker, and or daggers, but think its concept just doesn't hold mechanically. Hmm maybe spend an extra AP on each weapon attack for +60% dmg Could make a hell of a Wild blow and more AP spent always puts a big hurt on flexibility.
--Frenzy-- Didn't use it much since the game is quite weighted to just killing them before they kill you but I dig it in theory.
--Frenzied Defense-- I think its just to much in play and steps on uncanny evasions toes. Conceptually cool, but I'd drop it.
--Discipline Stance-- Has a decent trade off that effectively makes a back-line tool for spell casters and ranger who ain't got to move have deflecting with out that one belt from act II, but the melee reflect should be tooled down I think.
--Steady Stance-- There's never a time when you wouldn't want to have this. It's just that good with no downside. I'd drop it for a number of reasons, Mechanically to much, conceptually hard to place in play, and steps on the toes of "I meant to do that..." which could be a nice synergy for Headbutt, and MAYBE "Endure Pain" in my imagination.
--Defensive Stance-- Kinda underwhelming on its own. Mild annoyance that has consumable alternatives, but could set up for wild blow. Underwhelming sure but get's a pass.
--Protector's Defense-- Never used it since generally my guy's aren't close together and you generally have better options, but both conceptually and in play could see it having value by funneling weapon user's to the person most fit to take em, but not sure how often it'd crop up with team comp or making ones self vulnerable to AOE. Seems fine though just niche.

Lastly Wild Blow needs to up its stuff to give stances better synergies. Its also the one I have to hardest time thinking of to have its own niche, be worth setting up, and not supplanting other skills.
Never saw any use in play, because why would I lose one of those boost for an unnecessary 3 ap skill? I've thought about it and while I don't yet have a satisfactory answer for me self, here's what I've come up with.
--Wild Blow-- Consume Ap (up to 4) for 60% weapon dmg per AP (matches cripple), and deal equal parts magical and physical ARMOR dmg, with out changing the bottom line.
Why? Because it's neat and niche. The duo armor dmg could see it having use earlier in fights to open em up for mixed party composition or CC's, instead of just sitting on it to ruin some ones day.

All that said I obviously don't expect you to do any of this since it's work (of unknown complexity to me) but maybe my musings catch your fancy. I'd like to think I'm good at theorizing.

Some of these musings are better than others, but I greatly appreciate the input!

Since this is one of the mods that doesn't use the extender/leaderlib, my options for complexity are tied to the goofyness of scripting in the editor.

Things catching my eye in the posts:

Bladetrail behaves exactly as Marksman's Fang, as I just copied MF and edited a few values. Projectiles are just like that as the preview line always gets cut upon interruption.

Decapitation is added via status like Polymorph skills are. The less scripting done, the better, unfortunately.

Shield Bash will get a fix. Weapon Range can be added to skill range (in the cast of Crippling Blow, etc) and I hadn't even considered a wand, so that'll get tapped to cover the edge case of wand/shield. Since I have both Shield skills in my working files, I think there is an option to 'ignore silence' I can try to find.

On Your Knees will absolutely be addressed. It's in an awkward spot, so it could certainly be touched up.

Stances in general need another pass, so if I am in and working on some of the other issues, I will definitely take a closer look.The unfortunate thing about the defensive stuff is definitely that the game is so harshly weighted towards kill fast and take no damage. Those are mostly around if people are not intentionally playing like that, but could still use another look