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Crusader Kings III >  Workshop > ryciebani666's Workshop > Witchcraft > Discussions
Witchcraft
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Gronk 13 Aug, 2024 @ 6:23am
Artifact theft and a feeling of helplessness - suggestion/perhaps just a complaint
I'm in possession of the Ring of Life and Ancient Singularity, with particularly the ring being a popular target for theft. This is starting to feel quite tedious as it is now.

Especially since there are extremely few things you as a player can do to prevent thefts, the game mechanic as it stands doesn't really work from a gameplay standpoint in my opinion. As a player I am forced to either savescum or be resigned to the fact that artifacts I raged continental wars to gather can easily be stolen by the lowliest courtier of a far-away land without having any ways of stopping this. Appointing a spymaster, food taster and lady-in-waiting is a very passive - and ineffective, compared to the world-altering effects of the relics - mechanic.

Once or twice in a lifetime is not an end-all experience, but I'm now having to deal with this multiple times every in-game year, with a 20% chance of maybe, somehow, sometime in the future getting it back - if I'm not long dead by then of course.

In general, at least I personally am of the belief, that gameplay mechanics where the player is robbed(pun intended) of the ability to alter the outcome of an event, in the very least feel like they do, but rather being railroaded by the games forced mechanics makes for a much worse experience for the player. If I was a king in possession of these items you could be damn sure I'd have so much security around them that the only way to get them would be through destroying my entire kingdom, brick by brick. The fact that any decently skilled thief can even have a chance of stealing it is just annoying...

Not sure what could be done to alter this. Perhaps reducing the AI's, in lack of a better word, "theft score" on the artifacts, so it doesn't become such a nuisance? Even heightening the "go to war score", as going to excruciating wars over magical artifacts seems like a more "correct" way it would've happened. Perhaps make an event out of it, so you can actively do something about it instead of just accidentally noticing the ring on your finger is now in Egypt?

Thank you.

PS:
I really do enjoy this mod!
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Showing 1-11 of 11 comments
Gronk 13 Aug, 2024 @ 12:03pm 
Ok. This is now coming to a point where I'm really starting to question my future with this mod.. Even my own vassals and family are trying to rob me quarterly, and I can't even begin to try demanding it returned with the -500 score the items gives. I have 22 intrigue and a spymaster with 34, the most powerful mage on the planet and absolutely useless against common thieves. This can't be the intended way for this mod to work?
#1
ryciebani666  [developer] 13 Aug, 2024 @ 12:59pm 
@Gronk
Well, it's a good thing you didn't see the beginnings of this mod xd I remember that the frequency of thefts was reduced with each subsequent version ;) Although I have actually increased it minimally recently.

In general, I agree with almost everything you have written. Theft can be annoying and the player has few options to deal with it. Few doesn't mean none at all either. For this reason, I introduced the Double Guards decision, which you can apply when you discover a scheme. Of course, a good spy master is a essential, but also a marshal with the right task can raise your protection level. There are actually quite a few modifiers that make schemes against you more difficult (mind reading, precognition perk etc), but these are all passive, and that is sometimes not very satisfying.

The ring of life is a highly desirable artefact. Unlike other magical items, even ordinary rulers are interested in it. Some of them would rather try to steal it than openly fight the most powerful mage on the planet ;)

For now, I can only recommend you to collect a lot of bonuses to protect yourself from plots. Also keep your dread high, as this also discourages thieves.

There should be some new solution or mechanics here. Perhaps doubling the guard should automatically break such schemes. Anyway, thanks for raising the topic :)
#2
Gronk 13 Aug, 2024 @ 2:28pm 
Thank you for the well-thought reply, I appreciate it :) And gosh, if this is minimal theft I am very glad to be late to this party!!;)

Perhaps it shouldn't then be called doubling the guard, but some sort of mechanic where you get to be a part of the game would help a lot.
And as I mentioned in the first post, though I don't know if that's a stat in the game's programming: Making the items less desirable for stealing would probably do a lot. Or have a maximum cap on concurrent schemes on the same item/ruler?

I don't know. But again, thank you for replying! Looking forward to building my impenetrable vault:)
#3
Gronk 13 Aug, 2024 @ 2:35pm 
Also, the stats-penalty from doubling the guards seems rough to me. In addition to stress gain multiplier and the possibility of permanent paranoia. I already pay a hefty sum of gold and prestige, for something I'd say is a permanently needed buff. And as a witch, I've found that keeping stress levels down is the hardest part already. With this and mind-reader alone we're talking hefty stress gains - again, for buffs I'd see as permanently needed because of the thieving.
#4
ryciebani666  [developer] 14 Aug, 2024 @ 12:07am 
A maximum cap on theft schemes is partly achievable to introduce (although it will be difficult to implement).
And as for the reduction in interest in the artefacts, I'll change it a bit, but overall.... they should be very desirable :P AI should want them as much as the player...

When it comes to penalties for statistics, well, it's something for something ;) But I will think about it. You know I can't make every aspect of the game easier, because that would be overkill in the other direction. And paranoia is, after all, also the feature you want, if you care about artifact safety :D Good luck!
#5
Gronk 14 Aug, 2024 @ 11:56am 
Yeah, I thought I'd written a part about paranoia perhaps being desirable - though there's another stress multiplier!;) I don't think the doubling the guards-one really is something for something. You're already paying gold and prestige for more guards - how come more guards make you worse at administrating your counties as well? And personally, if I discovered a hostile scheme against my person, I'd be less stressed when I finally doubled my guards, not more. What a relief, finally more guards to save me from these schemers! And as I think I mentioned, perhaps just thought to myself: as it is now you're more or less required to keep that as a permanent buff to even have a chance of keeping the thieves away, so you don't really have the choice of something for something.

And I don't mean that they should be less interested in artifacts. What I meant was if there's some hidden stats making them less desirable to steal, but still want to wage wars, duels, etc.
Though I don't know the undercarriage of CK3..!

Again:
Thank you, both for the mod and for the friendly discussion:)
#6
ryciebani666  [developer] 14 Aug, 2024 @ 12:44pm 
Well, you have given me a topic to think about ;p Cheers ;)
#7
Zæλʟ¤n11 14 Aug, 2024 @ 10:29pm 
you could make it configurable as a gamerule but i have no idea how hard that is to implement
#8
ryciebani666  [developer] 15 Aug, 2024 @ 1:07am 
It's an option, although I'd prefer to balance it somehow so that it's not annoying for the player, and so that the AIs also get a chance to enjoy the artifacts ;)
Perhaps in the future there will be less theft and more events. We will see.
#9
󠀡󠀡 2 Oct, 2024 @ 2:00pm 
got dragonscales stolen from me by someone outside of diplo range (he's in europe im in india) who didn't even have a claim on it. how is that even possible?
#10
ryciebani666  [developer] 2 Oct, 2024 @ 2:36pm 
Diplomatic range is not symmetrical for both sides. Perhaps the thief had an additional bonus to his diplomatic range. For a magical artefact it is worth going to the edge of the world...
Paradox has recently changed schemes, so also the thieves can act a little more unpredictably.
#11
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