Left 4 Dead 2

Left 4 Dead 2

Inferno City: Part 1
 This topic has been pinned, so it's probably important
Super Hot Sexy Man  [developer] 2 Aug, 2022 @ 10:57am
Feedback
If you have anything special to say, go ahead lol :tank:

NOTE: feedback that mentions repeatedly and worthy details/subjects to improve will be located in the discussion Upcoming - Campaign Updates"
Last edited by Super Hot Sexy Man; 3 Aug, 2022 @ 6:49am
< >
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Pepe on my Balls 2 Aug, 2022 @ 2:41pm 
here's my few takes on this campaign.
+great loading screen
+idea of starting at woods to go to city is cool
+somewhat realistic world building unlike valve, who aimed for over the top but very remarkable level designs
+good use of dialogues
+custom npc
-levels are too dark
-directions never make sense till survivors mention where to go
-some parts of levels are wide open and they waste time
-lot of dead ends that again, waste your time
-levels hardly reward you for exploring the map, once more, waste your time
-gas station at city level does not explode. c'mon man this is l4d. if you use a gas station you defo should use the gas station from no mercy. i get that hard rain doesn't have it either and it's an official map but you had the opportunity.
-and finally the WORST problem: running during alarm. this already sucks in vanilla l4d and you put 2 of em in 1 campaign. this is unfun. it takes so long to find where to go when horde is constantly at your throat. you gotta run to the train station and there's a mall that has.. nothing inside? i actually got killed in there looking for supplies. i swear this itself can nullify the effort went for the campaign. the running takes SO long at the other mall with alarm and it has very tight corridors, it constantly spawns jockeys and spitters with endless hordes that immediately down a survivor in 5 seconds.

hope you appreciate my feedback. i appreciate your effort for this campaign. take good care :)
미소 2 Aug, 2022 @ 3:40pm 
· Chapters 1 and 2 are very dark.
· It is difficult to find the way.
· Few secondary weapons.
· There are so many zombies.
Suzumiya Ame ★ 2 Aug, 2022 @ 8:26pm 
Clear time : 1 hours 13 minutes
Excluding the 10 minutes i spent in the saferoom that's slightly over an hour, not too long for a 6 map run

Now to the map itself

First 2 chapters are gruesome cuz it's pitch ass dark, highly suggest using reanimation mods/ mods with built in animations that keep the gun pointing forward while reloading cuz without the flashlight you're not gonna see anything
Ah yes, and bring an extra bright flashlight, you're gonna need it
No need to increase the brightness imo, a forest at night shouldn't be any brighter anyways

Map 3 is slightly brighter as you start moving into the city and have lights from street lights and cars, definitely less painful to work with

Crescendo where you gotta run to the subway station is awful, i'd appreciate at least a subtle hint (car light, flares, ...) instead of rushing into the empty ass mall only to realise i've gone the wrong way and can't get out because a ♥♥♥♥ ton of zombies don't wanna let me

Map 5, 1st floor of the building, 2 of the doors lead to... well, nothing
Behind the door is a massive black wall that you can't do anything to

Map 5 and 6 imo are ok, not much to talk about

Verdict : 7.5/10
Definitely has some unique touch to it, still a bit rough around the edges (exploring doesn't reward you, broken doors, lack of proper guidance in some crescendo events) but it's a new map so i do expect the author to update the map, in which case i will do another review
Last edited by Suzumiya Ame ★; 2 Aug, 2022 @ 8:31pm
a1ex MVP 3 Aug, 2022 @ 6:13am 
First of all thanks for the map! Overall experience is good. Don't let the longer con list de-motivate you, it is always easy to point out small things that could be improved. That does not mean u have not done a good job with the campaign :)

+ long campaign
+ different environments
+ custom content

and to the negative

- some maps are too dark, especially 1 and 2
- some elements I thought I recognized from other maps
- ammo can be scarce
- some places need more details
- need more supplies during mall alarm crescendo

Generally I think this campaign could be drastically improved with some more work to lighting, fog settings and color corrections to increase the atmosphere. Most times It felt like there was no active color correction at all and no active fog setting. This alone can make a campaign look 10 times better.
sappo 3 Aug, 2022 @ 6:32am 
We note that the map is supposed to be voluminous and enjoyable.

-Chapter 1 and 2 are too dark. There should be more smoke bombs, etc. as there are not enough landmarks.
-Supplies are scarce, especially ammunition. If you get a little lost, you will run out of ammo.
-There are not enough signs throughout the campaign. The streets are too realistic, making it difficult to find your way around.
-Long radio in chapters 3 and 6. I think it would be better to make it so that you can proceed without having to listen to the whole thing.
-TANKs spawning in front of you during some events (surely placed?). TANK spawns in front of you. It is difficult to deal with them because of the lack of supplies.

+The event is reminiscent of DEAD CENTER and The Parish, but with more ups and downs and increased difficulty.
+Overall game level (I think the bile jar balances it out)
+Overall map design. Storytelling and varied.
Last edited by sappo; 4 Aug, 2022 @ 4:17am
のあ 3 Aug, 2022 @ 7:12am 
I played this map in normal mode in single play and cleared about 50 minutes.
Level design is good and I appreciate your effort !!

Pros:
+no texture error
+supplies are abundant
+long campaign
+various events

Cons:
-Few secondary weapons (melee and magnum)
(For example, it will be good to place frying pan in some houses because they have a kitchen or to do these weapons in the saferoom)
-overall, each map is vast but there are many empty areas.
I think it needs some detailed.
(For example,placing posters or paintings on the wall, paper on the floor)
-need arrows
arrows are only in map 5, so it needs to place all maps
(Especially they need in map 3 and crescendo event in map 4.we will get lost easily if there is no arrow)
-Too fast hordes respawn in mall crescendo event in map 4, so it needs reduce them.
In addition to it,we need bile same as crescendo event in map 3
(It is a little hard to play with bots)

Thanks for giving me good experience.
I hope this map receive update and looking forward to playing it !
Last edited by のあ; 5 Aug, 2022 @ 3:48pm
Codebibi 4 Aug, 2022 @ 3:48am 
great map but too many panic events with alarm where you have to run a very long way to reach destinations, i had to wait till chapter 3 to found my first melee weapon and radio dialogue in chapter 3 and final are too long but other than that i enjoyed it.
Landale 4 Aug, 2022 @ 6:39pm 
Clear time of 1 hour 45 minutes alone with bots on Normal. Had a few wipes needing to restart.

Breaking it down by levels.
The Forest: Way too dark, no clear indication on where you're supposed to go most of the time.
The Neighborhood: Again, way too dark with no clear indication on where you're supposed to go.
The City: Have to sit through the radio chatter before you can even begin that, due to having no text, gives you no real information if you can't hear well or at all other than that there's a mall involved. Thank you Ellis. The event here to reach the safehouse is utter BS. No warning that it will start, no clear indication of how to get to the safehouse, infinite horde spawning too. Maybe it's piss poor luck on my end, but there was a tank mixed in on that every single time as well. It's kind of hard to fight a tank when you can't even move due to about a dozen zombies that just instantly replace themselves swarming on top of you.
The Mall: Another BS event. At least this one you have to start but it's basically another infinite swarm in a worse Dead Center's Mall as you have to go up and down and around and up and down some more and again no clear indication of where you're supposed to go. Oh, and a Tank is conveniently sitting right on top of the switch for the alarm unless, again, my luck sucks so much as to have it happen every time. And no the horde does not let up here. Infinite Zombies + Tank = no fun.
The Skyscraper: I don't even really remember anything about this other than that for once there was some indication of where you're supposed to be going. I think there was a copy of The Parish's Park event here? I don't know, my brain was shut down in rage after the last two garbage levels.
The Rooftop: You are not given the chance to actually prepare before starting the finale. All supplies are beyond the gate, with no clear indication of where they are so you have to hunt it down in the middle of everything going on.

Overall the big things in need of fixing are that you need better indications of where you intend for people to be going and even just a couple of seconds to even breathe in 3 & 4's events. Work on the lighting in particular, since the normal way the game is set up is to guide you with lighting. You've got bright areas constantly set up to be dead ends while going off into the dark is the way forward. Sometimes.
There is also a severe lack of healing supplies for the sheer frequency of hordes, especially due to how easy it is to get lost. Not just medkits, but defibs, pills, and shots are all very rare from my experience. I also never once saw any ammo kits or laser sights. For that matter I never saw a grenade launcher, M60, nor chainsaw either, which might have helped significantly with those hordes.
This definitely has the potential to be a great campaign, especially since I see you've said you are adjusting the events in 3 and 4, it's just very frustrating in its current build.
Last edited by Landale; 4 Aug, 2022 @ 6:49pm
David 5 Aug, 2022 @ 7:35am 
okay, here is some complain: The final map was kinda a bit of long. Like, i beat Zengcheng map around 45 minute, consider that is one of the longest map, but this map even surpass it, it took me nearly 55 minute to beat it, in NORMAL difficulty.

So, safe to say, it is extremely challenge in higher difficulty, not only that, also a bit of choke and lost, when i learn about Valve official map, also some top tier custom map, they have very clear way to direct the player to where they want. If that is your choice to keep the map challenge or not though, for some, it does really fun, but overall, not suitable for a newbie to navigate where they want to go. That is also a big problem though, because, not everyone like the lost feeling, but with the darkness, it bring more horror game vibe, about the dark part, i'm not sure either because my potato PC or it actually that dark, idk, but if that was intention then, you are done well.

Another problem i does notice, because i play with 7 bot and only normal Infected mutation it will not be the case, but when you are playing normal game, especially higher difficulty, your map have so much spawn way to flavor Special Infected, just said the 1st map and 2nd map alone, with these darkness is enough to made them have a strong advantage over the survivor, map 3 is bit okay, but map 4 and map 5, Spitter alone would cause a big trouble, there was so many choke point, and with such little supply, yeah, that was the real deal.

So, here is some advice to balance it: Made a map a bit brighter, put some light to help survivor easy to navigate the map, also, made more item spawn, i can see supply even less than old Zengcheng version, atleast it can made the map more balance without remove anything, also, the finding gascan part in finale isn't necessary, honestly, remove that part would made a finale a bit more easy and chill to balance these previous high tension combat.
Last edited by David; 5 Aug, 2022 @ 7:35am
David 5 Aug, 2022 @ 7:39am 
Also, that freaking tank in Center map is real problem, like, i rushing to close the alarm, then he suddenly appear, luckily it was not Expert difficulty and 1,000,000 tank health, if it is real, with these massive horde, it is dead end, honestly, just remove that tank part because it was already hard enough.
David 5 Aug, 2022 @ 7:44am 
Anyway, if consider this is your first ever big project, then i can said it is exceptional good, with few tweak and some more effort, i can said it is solid campaign and can become some Workshop standard for a long time.
So, originally, i'd rate it at 7.0/10, but for your effort and open to take a critism to improve a map, so i'd rate it 8.5/10. Maybe a lite version for this map isn't too bad.
I played this campaign with bots on Normal difficulty and was able to successfully complete it, but had to restart 2 times due to dying during hordes. For the most part, the campaign was somewhat enjoyable and a few of the environments in the chapters were interesting imo, especially the skyscraper offices with the crashed military transport helicopter. However though, the thing that somewhat took away from that experience over time were the horde events at the end of the city and mall chapter; in both hordes, there were a lot of common infected, along with special infected that spawned throughout the horde, which lead to my team being entirely killed the first time I went through both hordes. Along with this, one of the things that mostly ruined my enjoyment of the mall chapter and to an extend, the whole campaign, was the fact that a Tank spawns right behind the horde near the alarm power box. This caused me to restart the whole chapter as the tank ended up killing me and my whole team due to us running out of ammo and having low health due to the horde event and its issues.

Another issue that I noticed in the campaign was how there weren't really much supplies to be found throughout maps, such as health items, melees, and a few other items that would be useful. Aside from the medkits that would spawn in safehouses, I remember not finding any (either that or I somehow missed possible medkits), along with only seeing about 3 melees throughout the whole campaign. During the two most notable horde events (the subway and mall hordes), either me or the bots (usually both) would end up going through all of our ammo due to how many special/common infected would spawn. On the mall chapter, there was also some sort of weird bug with an ammo pile in the back of a truck that's outside of the mall warehouse, where the bots weren't able to use the ammo pile, causing them to run out of ammo either during or before the mall horde. One of the issues that other players pointed out that I noticed in the campaign is how some areas had a poor sense of direction. However though, I didn't have much of an issue personally with the navigation for the most part, but I can see how it can become confusing for other players.

For a TLDR; the campaign was enjoyable at first, but due to issues revolving around the horde events in the city and mall chapters and an overall lack of supplies throughout the campaign, some of the campaign's overall enjoyment is taken away. However though, I was still able to enjoy the campaign for the most part, albeit a bit annoyed with the hordes afterwards. Despite this, I think it looks very good for a first campaign and if these issues are fixed or improved in a future update, I wouldn't mind giving the campaign another playthrough.

Edit: On a 2nd playthrough of the campaign, I noticed that there's more melee weapons, throwables and health items (pills and adrenaline) than I remember, so nevermind about the lack of those items.
Last edited by ◀ Random Anime-Fan ▶; 6 Aug, 2022 @ 3:37pm
Landale 7 Aug, 2022 @ 9:12pm 
Assessment of the update:
Again, bot team on Normal. 1 hour 32 minutes.

I really want to like this campaign. I've got minor gripes, namely poor supplies, the radio, and lack of direction, but overall it's really solid. The problem at this point is mainly The Mall, and it is a complete black hole made of misery that drags the rest of the campaign down, especially everything after it due to causing a downward spiral.

The Forest: Lack of visual guidance remains. The house is cramped and dark, easy to get lost in despite the small size. Not immediately obvious that you're supposed to head toward the attic nor which window to head for. Easily solved by turning lights on in the house, and leaving a lantern or body to draw attention to the intended window. The plane crash is still deceptive in how you're guided. Fires draw your attention toward a dead end, away from the safehouse in the dark on the opposite side of the plane.

The Neighborhood: Again, lack of visual guidance. The house here is barely any better. Windows with normally breakable boards that can't on your map, dark after getting off the ground level floor. No indication of what window you should be looking for. Again, a lantern or something by the intended window would help. Or perhaps a corpse that can be clearly seen as you're coming up on the house by the window.

The City: You're still stuck waiting for the radio to play whatever it is that's going on before you can even start. This drags on way too long. The little hotel/apartments/whatever a little bit before getting to the subway event is yet another place you're over reliant on dark cramped spaces that don't have an immediately obvious goal to them. I've taken to just jumping out the 2nd floor rooms onto a bus to continue on, the bots take some winding path through that I still haven't found because you can't see a thing in there. The nearby gas station draws you to it, being the first immediately obvious lit up place, yet there's nothing in there but wasted time. The event starting after you can actually see the subway entrance, and having something directing you to it before directing you a mile off in the distance is a welcome change. The infinite waves are still obnoxious and demand that you have a melee weapon and/or bile on hand. At least for once there wasn't a tank in the mix.

The Mall: The door at the end of the first subway section always has a witch or tank behind it. This is like 5-10 seconds into the map. This means a bot, bare minimum, is going to be down a med kit almost instantly 90% of the time. Immediately after getting out of the second subway portion is another tank or witch, the former of which has repeatedly promptly punched a bot back down into the subway for instant death. Given the consistency of the brutality here, the two are easily less than a minute apart, the nearby ambulance NEEDS to be carrying med kits and or a defib, not a grenade launcher. Shortly after, the lamps are lined up in such a way as to obscure the gate door being open. Light up the last one to draw more attention over this way, or move them entirely. Now we make it to the warehouse. First of all I've pretty consistently run into a witch sitting on the top of the ladder to get in. That's three boss types now. Anyway, we're inside now and that pile of boxes that need to be climbed over? Yeah, the game generally trains you that a pile of garbage is a wall and to go find another way. Give some indication we're supposed to hop it, or get rid of it.
As for the event; Before we even begin, the bots are almost certainly out of kits and pills and shots now due to the sheer number of tanks and witches and incoming hordes, and are likely on their last legs too and there's unfortunately no medical supplies at all anywhere nearby before starting this, only some guns and an ammo pile. But you fixed this garbage event with those "shorter paths" right? Right? No. No you did not. Well, right at the start there's ANOTHER WITCH IN THE NARROW BACK HALL YOU HAVE TO PASS WHILE THE HORDE'S COMING. WHY?! New randomized route, way too dark to see anything, way too many specials (Killed a charger only to be immediately nailed by another, killed it, only for ANOTHER to show up and there was a similar rate on spitters. Incidentally, across 3 tries to clear this I saw exactly 1 smoker, 1 hunter, and 0 jockeys, what is with the imbalance here?), and again no clear indication on where you should be going. This one you seemed to have actively made WORSE, aside from the fact that the horde let up once for about 5 seconds and only 5 seconds when I found a tent with ammo by it that was also the completely wrong direction from where I was supposed to be going. And of course, there's that 50% chance tank waiting for you. Oh but it's not blocking the switch this time. No, it's blocking the saferoom. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?

The Skyscraper: Ok, so there's a tank about 5 seconds out from the saferoom. That likely nobody has medkits from because they had to be used due to that garbage in the mall. At least the saferoom had some molotovs in it. Ok, so tank is done and it's time to start Parish Park 2: Electric Boogaloo. The CEDA trailer has pills or shots in it, but no med kits. You know what, I'll take it. This isn't actually too bad. Constant horde, but in reasonably small numbers for being endless. There's also an ammo pile halfway and at the end, by the gate you then have to wait on. There's also clear directions and light to see what you're doing. Go back to the previous chapters with this mentality and work on them some more please. Once inside the skyscraper, things are pretty good, though the ladder inside the elevator shaft is difficult to notice. All throughout this level I never once saw a pistol, magnum, nor melee weapon. Given the deaths that are all but assured in the previous level, this puts you at a significant disadvantage going forward.

The Rooftop: So, I forgot to bring this up before but after the long radio that says something, I really don't know because there's no text, there's no indication that you need to go back inside and move a file cabinet. I spent quite a while trying to figure out how to open the gate next to the radio my first time through before I went looking inside and found that. Direct people to the file cabinet before the gas cans. After filling the generator with gas, there's no indication of what to do next. A lot of time was wasted waiting for the radio to light back up before aimlessly wandering and finding a tank that bursts the wall you need opened at this point. So after getting past the tank, still no medical supplies due to the downward spiral the mall induces by the way, it's time for the finale. Except you still can't get access to your supplies until you start it and there's no indication of where they are. Fix this. Just put the med kits and ammo pile next to the second radio. Any other supplies needed to be searched for is fine.

Adjustments needed:
Guidance: I'm not just talking throwing some arrows. Stick to what the game does normally and put brighter lights where you're wanting people to go, headlights or flood lights to point the way where the cars and lights might make sense, stick minor things that catch one's eye like corpses and lanterns near windows that you're wanting players to use, and don't rely so much on pitch black super cramped spaces.

Cut the radio: If you can't get some sort of text display on what is being said, cut it completely or just recycle old rescue NPC lines that do have text. Anyone deaf or just hard of hearing isn't going to catch it as is, to say nothing of the players who don't or barely speak English. If you can get some kind of text display, cut the part where it prevents you from even starting the third level until it finishes.

Balance: If you insist on the sheer brutality you've got going on, give players a lot more access to medical supplies. I'm not just talking med kits, though yes you need more of these, but more pills, shots, and defibs. Anyone not playing with actual people have no chance in hell at reliably clearing this in good time any higher than Normal, bots are barely able to keep up on that difficulty nevermind anything higher. And this is with mods that improve bot behavior. If you can't bring yourself to be nice with supplies, cut down on the intensity of hordes and stop with the CHARGERCHARGERCHARGERSPITTERSPITTERSPITTERCHARGER spawn spam. And for the love of god cut down on the number of tanks and witches in the 4th level.
Last edited by Landale; 7 Aug, 2022 @ 9:29pm
Landale 8 Aug, 2022 @ 6:45pm 
Thinking on it somewhat, I do have an idea for you to keep the tank and the excessive horde in the Mall event in such a way that it rewards playing well. Put it in one of the open areas before getting to the switch. Preferably near the bottom of the escalators.
This gives players the opportunity to make use of a bile bomb, that you should make sure they always have access to at least one in the stage before this, to divert the horde onto the tank itself, giving them the chance to slip by in relative safety from what is otherwise a nightmarishly excessive scenario.

The Charger/Spitter spawn spam in the area still needs to be toned down a bit though.

Additional Observations from more playthroughs, under the usual conditions;
The City: This event has excessive special spawns, just as The Mall does. I threw a bile bomb off over by a smoker that had Rochelle, only for it to highlight the fact that there was a second smoker right next to it just out of sight. There was also the charger/spitter instant respawn spam.
Additionally, there was a Witch in the same place I found tanks pre-update in the middle of the horde. This leads me to believe that tanks are still possible down there despite the infinite swarm. Trim the boss spawn point entirely and cut down on the SI or trim the numbers of normal infected. "Dumb luck" should not be the reason for clearing a stage on Normal.
Last edited by Landale; 8 Aug, 2022 @ 9:07pm
Nuclearstomp 9 Aug, 2022 @ 3:25pm 
Here's my feedback:

Maps 1 and 2 are fine.

Map 3: Make it so you can cut off the walkie. The player should not have to wait 1-2 minutes before they are allowed to leave the saferoom.

Map 4: Add more indications of where to go during the mall gauntlet.

Map 5: I can't recall the map very well, so I'd say it's okay.

Map 6: Let the player skip the walkie again and highlight the filing cabinets (those are filing cabinets btw, not a bookcase); also make it more obvious the player has to go back down after the event.

Also, please disable random tank spawns on Map 6! We started the finale, and then a tank spawned in the middle for no reason, which was pretty unfair. (At least I assumed it was random because it didn't happen the second attempt.)

The only other thing I can say is that the finale needs a second gas can or a Molotov in a reachable location, but we only had two players, so we couldn't take all the saferoom throwables.
< >
Showing 1-15 of 25 comments
Per page: 1530 50