Hatred
Hatred 1.333 - a FPS / TPS / VR mod
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Igoreso  [developer] 9 Jul, 2024 @ 11:54pm
Answer to "Can you share mod's sources?"
Can you share mod's sources?
Short answer is: No, you. *places Uno reverse card*

But in all seriousness, it is very hard to answer this in a short form without sounding arrogant, so if you're curious - read on.

Before we continue - if you just want to create a map pack then you don't need my sources anyway, see info at the bottom. This lengthy answer is for those that have other reasons to ask for the mod's sources.

As you probably noticed, apart from 1.666 and 1.333 there are few mods in workshop where I either provided TPS perspective (Wrath, Hatred-chan) or contributed a lot (Survival Overhaul). The former happened during times where modding community (heh, 4-5 people in total) was still active AND I was 99% sure that my mods are finished (spoiler: I was wrong). In the latter case, I was motivated myself to contribute.

As time went on, the "community" slowly faded away until only 2 people - me and Vergil - were left. Vergil had a standalone custom map called Rockshield, which he wanted to integrate into the campaign, and for that purpose he started not only building a replacement for Army Base, but also coloring the entire game. This sounded absolutely awesome, and motivated me to do more cool stuff for the mod... which in turn later motivated Vergil to finish his part.

All of this happened across multiple years. And if you consider when we first started modding - around 2016 - this is even larger timespan. We were in no way game dev professionals and we're certainly not the most skilled modders, but only this common interest and similar vision allowed us to produce what is now called 1.666 and later 1.333. If you've read the rest of this FAQ and/or you've spent long enough with Unreal Editor, you should have approximate understanding of how challenging and often frustrating it is to make something with UE.

Point is, due to all if the above - diluted modding community, tons of hours spent modding and testing, having a specific vision and artistic direction - resulted in a side effect of us becoming, well, attached to our mods. We fixed bugs; we answered lots of comments and we still tirelessly clean up comments to avoid mods from getting banned.

But you may still be asking: "Hey, that's all good, but you're no longer modding, right? You told so yourself. Why not share your sources and help the modding community prosper?" I see where you're coming from, and I would probably agree in case if community was truly active, but it wouldn't work even in that case. First reason is technical limitation. Unfortunately proper mods can only be Total Conversions - there is no way to have mods as additive "mutators" as it worked in, say, Unreal Tournament 3. This means I cannot develop my mod in isolation and have others benefit from updates automatically. And this means I have to share my entire codebase. And even if I wanted to (read further why not), this would make it very hard to share updates, unless the other modder was skilled enough and willing to use proper engineering tools (e.g. GIT) and practices, which are not always easy to explain.

By extension, making more mods being copies of my mod makes player base fragmented and confused as to which mod should they pick for best experience. Even having 1.666 and 1.333 is confusing, especially since Wrath TPS, which is (objectively speaking) fairly outdated compared to 1.333, has more subscribers than 1.333. As a gamer myself, this is not something I want for the rest of the players.

Now - why, apart from technical difficulties and splitting the community, I don't want to share sources. I'd say the main reason is the artistic direction. I personally seek to stay as close to vanilla game as possible. (You could argue about this, citing 1.666 as an example, but apart from some controversial stuff that mod is still vanilla Hatred, albeit colored.) Given that, I don't feel right sharing the sources with people I don't closely know, and especially if their goal is to deviate from vanilla. That was fine back in 2018 when my mod was smaller in scale (Wrath, Hatred-chan - and I knew the authors myself) and it was fine when the other modder was very skilled (Survival Overhaul, 1.666 - again, I knew the authors) but in 2023 I just don't feel like it is fair simply sharing what me, Vergil and other contributors put into the mod over the years. Original FPS mod took 3 month to implement (almost non-stop), and cumulative effort of everyone involved in 1.666 could surpass a year.

Besides, if I share sources even once - I no longer have any control of what happens next. Somebody may choose to make something so terrible that would have me ashamed of my decision. Or even worse, leak the files. In 1.666 I'm marked as the co-author of the mod and I can clean up comments and even delete the entire mod, if I really wanted to. I would not have this control elsewhere. And even if I trusted the person enough and I was added as co-author, it still doesn't solve any of the problems outlined above.

While this may sound condescending, due to the reasons outlined above I can offer to invert the topic. Hope you, the reader, will find the below reasonable.

I'm open to the idea of extending mods (1.333, and potentially 1.666, but that's not for me to decide) with well-built features that stick to the vanilla. For example, if you can record more motion-capture scenes, this can easily be added to the mod. If you can make new maps, comparable in quality to custom maps in 1.666, it may be harder but still possible to add to the mod. If you can overhaul AI to new heights - this can be added to the mod. I think you get the idea. The only big exception are changes to character blueprint - mine became a huge, unmanageable mess, so any changes that you make on your side would have to be ported/replicated into my code by me. Possible, but difficult; it is just that complex.

There are only 2 requirements from my side: the changes have to keep the game true to vanilla, and we have to collaborate using online GIT repository. Both are an absolute must-have. I cannot agree to anything that deviates from vanilla, such as: any custom narrative; any illegal (regardless of country) stuff; any controversial stuff (including any political and non-political ideology); any overly-violent stuff (rape, torture, mutilation, etc; Manhunt-level cruelty is fine as long as it is not longer than what's in stock game). I also cannot agree to sharing files manually as this is inefficient, error-prone and lacks any control mechanisms.

If this ever happens, everybody should win from the outcome - I have my sanity by keeping the control of my mod, the other modder gets to see his stuff visible to literally thousands of existing subscribers, and players get to benefit from new changes without even moving a finger.

I never considered myself to be some "awesome" dude that made some "awesome" mod. I look at those thousands of subscriptions and it tells me nothing. At most - "oh, this looks like a cool round number" and "lol, 666". So my statement on this topic is largely driven by objective reality rather than emotional attachment.

Thanks for reading, and may you have the patience to be modding with Unreal Editor.

Can I create a map pack that would use FPS / TPS perspectives?
Yes, you can. See this guide.
Last edited by Igoreso; 24 Jan @ 1:04pm