Thank you for your kind words, and the great advice.

Truth be told, I still haven't really gotten used to all of the nuances of vanilla neural heat yet, so getting some feedback in that department is fantastic. Plus, the numbers you recommend look great.

I'm still not sure what exactly to do with submissive, but I do agree that it's not *quite* done yet. I'll need to look at it from different angles, and hopefully give the impression that submissive pawns *need* to serve you.

I agree with you completely with terrified. I didn't really know what to do with it when I released the mod, but I also didn't feel like it removing it. My current thought is to add a "fainting spell" mental break, where terrified pawns have a random chance to become downed if they're under attack.

Awesome to see someone express a way to handle both directions of heat dispersal genes!!
Better than I could have explained it, I hope something gets worked out for that

@GeckoBoy
Yes, I concede. Neural heat spectrum will be in the next update.

Thanks for being so open about feedback! Love the mod, you're doing great dude

Honestly when I seen submissive, I thought it would also like, do something else when they're not enslaved.
While it should grant the slower supression loss, like Redpine said up there, it should probably grant something else when that pawn is not enslaved.
Like an opinion boost to others or stuff like that.

@YepThatsMyName
That is a golden idea, fits in perfectly with the "need to serve" theme. I will look into it, and try to balance out the pros/cons of the gene.

so my thoughts on the meditation dependency is that the amount of time it takes to upkeep isn't worth taking the trait, because meditation is a form of recreation and when pawns who don't have psychic powers get bored of it they refuse to do it, same with if their recreation is full.

the idea is really cool, but the negative impact is much, much greater than the vanilla dependency traits

if you want to keep the 4 to 5 hours of upkeep you mentioned in the comments, i'd suggest making it so pawns can't get bored of solitary recreation, or that meditating restored rest like sleeping or something.

@m11kire
My tests show that pawns that have full recreation and are bored of solitary joy will still meditate as long as their schedule tells them to.

Still though, the boredom is definitely a problem. I'll look into it, but the code for boredom is very old and hard to work around, especially without Harmony.

I am working on it.

thats pretty easily solved with just using the schedule i wouldnt worry too much about it. if you are taking the gene without using the meditation schedule you are genuinly doing something wrong with your psycasters and growing more anima grass is always enough of a motivation to make them do it even if theyre bored.

One idea for submissive for non-slave pawns could be a lower need for recreation, representing that because they feel the need to serve they dislike idly "wasting" their time and find that servitude in itself fulfilling enough that they don't need to spend as much time on themselves.

Since you've also mentioned that you want to convey the idea that they have a need to serve rather than just a desire you could (if its feasible to code) make it so that they have higher mood when working, but lower mood when they aren't. They love to spend time working for the colony, but hate themselves for being too weak and needing to stop to do things like eat, sleep, and have recreation.

Giving them a mood boost for wearing slave collars or straps similarly to masochists would make sense too.

So would making them less likely to social fight, as someone with a strong, genetic need to serve would likely also be much more willing to just take whatever insults get thrown at them.

In general I think good things to explore would be ways to make submissive colonists more slave-like so that they can work more with fewer penalties, while also making submissive slaves lower maintenance. The ideal would probably be things that can do both at once, so that colonists and slaves are improved equally by the trait rather than encouraging one or the other.

If you want disadvantages beyond a metabolism cost I'd say lowering the work speed of more complex tasks like smithing, crafting, doctoring, tailoring, and maybe even cooking could make sense, as they require more initiative and personal thought beyond just doing exactly as told. I'd suggest against just using the vanilla skilled labor category though, as it includes some "standard" slave work types, like mining, growing, harvesting, and plant cutting.

It probably would make sense to explore disadvantages and try to balance the gene around a neutral metabolism cost, since from a gameplay perspective the gene would mainly be about making low maintenance workers, whether that's slave-like colonists or just better slaves, and them needing to eat more often would go directly against that, while I think a metabolism decrease would perhaps be too powerful, especially since it would be easy to add the negative genes for art or intellectual as slaves are already incapable of those. Social too, if slaves are incapable of childcare. I haven't tested for that yet, as I don't actually use slaves, though a gene that makes them enjoy being slaves might change that.

Making them incapable of violence would be a good idea too, interpreting it as their submissive brains being so hardwired to serve that they can't even imagine doing the exact opposite by doing harm instead, though this might be a bit iffier if slavery still overrides incapabilities from genes, and I could see arguments against it in general such as the idea that being so hardwired to serve might instead make them fiercely protective of their masters.

If this seems a bit disorganized and all over the place its because it was very much stream of consciousness, just writing down ideas as I got them.

@Pudding Deity
Some genes with thoughts more closely tied to work would be nice, and it would be easy enough to add thoughts for slave straps.

Though I don't want to put too much functionality into the submissive gene; I would prefer to break it up into multiple smaller genes. That way players can customize their slave xenotypes. Plus, they can't just buy an instant "perfect slave" genepack from a single trader.

The you need increase the regrowth rate and reduce the drop rate on the Gauranlen dependency gene. My pawn with it is constantly dropping all the way to No Tree levels even with the Gauranlen set to nearly 100%.

Originally posted by Turnovus:

@Pudding Deity
Some genes with thoughts more closely tied to work would be nice, and it would be easy enough to add thoughts for slave straps.

Though I don't want to put too much functionality into the submissive gene; I would prefer to break it up into multiple smaller genes. That way players can customize their slave xenotypes. Plus, they can't just buy an instant "perfect slave" genepack from a single trader.

Certainly fair, I didn't mean for all of those suggestions to be implemented into a single gene anyway, I was just throwing out different options for whatever might fit the gene best in your eyes (and be most feasible to code, I'm not a coder at all so I have no clue what is or isn't possible to do, especially without Harmony being required).

@doomsought
The gauranlen dependency need is meant to be pretty severe, so that you need to make major adjustments to either your pawns' schedules or to your colony's architecture. Though colonists don't need to prune the trees to gain the need; being within 15 tiles, even while sleeping, will do.

Though the +3 metabolism isn't enough of a trade-off to match this, so I'll be increasing it in the next update.

I've played with meditation dependency for a bit, and it's really difficult to work with. It needs so much meditation time. I think that's alright because it also gives a lot of metabolic efficiency, but it's pretty annoying at the moment and that can be solved with some quality of life adjustments.

Overall, more sources of meditation fulfilment are necessary because the current implementation of it is just a flat tax on your pawn's daily time budget. That is an issue because the drowsy gene already does that. I think instead it would have a good gameplay niche as a need that pushes pawns into meditative work types.

So suggestion 1. Have bed resting count towards meditation fulfilment. This is necessary because without it, preventing a diseased pawn from having a mental break due to unfulfilled meditation need is impossible.

Suggestion 2. Have pruning count towards meditation fulfilment. Frankly, pruning should also count towards psyfocus, but that's a vanilla issue. It's canon that pruning is not a physical task, but a meditative one. Pruning is extremely time consuming, and between pruning and meditating, a pawn has no time left in their day to do anything else.

Suggestion 3. Have fishing count towards meditation fulfilment. Fishing is extremely time consuming causing it to have the same time budget issue as pruning, and fishing irl is commonly done as a meditative recreation.

Suggestion 4. Have all forms of solitary joy fulfil the meditation need, be unable to saturate the solitary joy type, and prefer solitary over other joy types when their meditation need is below 50%. There is a severe issue with pawns not autonomously fulfilling their meditation need, and I think this should help with that significantly.