add an item that allows me to cauterize wounds, eg: stops bleeding but causes burn damage. also semi serious itd be funny if i could lobotomise people ex: use knife or specific tool on head in health interface to instantly kill someone from brain damage.

If possible it would be cool if i could remove peoples organs with the new surgical system.EDIT 1: Dont know if this is intentional but you can use the sub dermal armor over and over again. EDIT 2: The subdermal armour has the description of the forceps for some reason.

Originally posted by Insaneyak:

If possible it would be cool if i could remove peoples organs with the new surgical system.EDIT 1: Dont know if this is intentional but you can use the sub dermal armor over and over again. EDIT 2: The subdermal armour has the description of the forceps for some reason.

Thanks for pointing these out to me, I'll be sure to fix them both in the next update! As for organs I'll look into it.

Originally posted by Owl:

Originally posted by Insaneyak:

If possible it would be cool if i could remove peoples organs with the new surgical system.EDIT 1: Dont know if this is intentional but you can use the sub dermal armor over and over again. EDIT 2: The subdermal armour has the description of the forceps for some reason.

Thanks for pointing these out to me, I'll be sure to fix them both in the next update! As for organs I'll look into it.

Organs is more of Neurotrauma thing complexity wise but if it strikes your fancy to give your own take a try, please make it a sub-mod to the main mod so that way it can be optional/allow for more compartmentalized tweaking and bug fixing. Will be interested to see how you handle organs either way tho.

Originally posted by InnerSpherical:

Originally posted by Owl:

Thanks for pointing these out to me, I'll be sure to fix them both in the next update! As for organs I'll look into it.

Organs is more of Neurotrauma thing complexity wise but if it strikes your fancy to give your own take a try, please make it a sub-mod to the main mod so that way it can be optional/allow for more compartmentalized tweaking and bug fixing. Will be interested to see how you handle organs either way tho.

true

Would it be possible to have implants as a sub mod? That way the main medical mods stays as a simple alternative to vanilla, and you could keep adding optional sub mods to expand the system

Originally posted by Thatch:

Would it be possible to have implants as a sub mod? That way the main medical mods stays as a simple alternative to vanilla, and you could keep adding optional sub mods to expand the system

I'll look into that!

I adore the concept of this mod. There is a void that lies somewhere between Neurotrauma's over-designed complexity and the vanilla game's "morphine for everything" problem. This mod fills that void thoughtfully and I'm eager to see where you take it from here.

With that said, I would like to offer some observations and suggestions. Please know that I don't have any practical experience running this mod in a game with other people yet and that my observations come from experimenting on bots, who are eager volunteers. I hope you'll excuse the lengthy post:


TL;DR: Opiates are currently a little weak, some damage types don't have cures anymore and I propose either surgery or slow medicines for those to create a distinction between long-term and short-term problems/consequences.

1) Crafting Sutures is giving me +2 (sometimes +1) medical skill for every batch of five, and very consistently. If you don't mind me saying so, this is way too much.

2) I love the introduction of the Cautery as a renewable form of healing for only a few afflictions. I think that the resulting burns should be a little more severe, however. They currently seem like they would be negligible under normal circumstances. I might find myself mistaken, though, if I were to get some practical experience in a proper game, so I'm interested in hearing others' thoughts on that.

3) Currently, there is no way to recover from the following afflictions without expensive medicine or a crapton of opiates + time: Deep Tissue Injury, Internal Damage, and Organ Damage. Additionally, Concussion is no longer cured by opiates and you have to wait it out or lay in bed for twenty seconds. I have suggestions for these that I will touch on later.

4a) It appears as though Morphine heals 5% or 6% over a duration of 1m 40s (and Fentanyl heals roughly twice this over the same duration). Pomegrenade extract remains unchanged, which I appreciate, but it does mean that Pomegrenade is currently much faster, slightly more potent, cheaper, and renewable.

4b) I replaced a bot's blood with 16 Fentanyl and 20 Morphine and it only brought her up to ~60% Opiate Overdose.

4c) I've noticed that Morphine no longer inflicts Oxygen Low. Is there a reason for this? Perhaps it's in service of Morphine's new role of buying the patient time?

5) It would be cool if Scalpels and Forceps could have quality versions if crafted with a high enough Medical skill that would grant them higher condition/HP, the same way quality fuel rods and battery cells do. This would make them the only medical items to have quality variations, though.


In my experiments with your mod, I ran into a couple of situations (usually grenade-related) where the patient was suffering from some combination of Deep Tissue Injury, Internal Damage, and/or Organ Damage which was severe enough that these afflictions alone kept the patient beyond the threshold of waking up, which is an issue because there is currently no effective remedy for these afflictions. In one case, I had to administer methamphetamine to stave off the building Oxygen Low just to buy time, but that built up significant Organ Damage (that character had a crap Medical skill and couldn't perform CPR). These sorts of situations forced me to realize that these incurable ailments, as mentioned in point #3 above, are currently very dangerous, but they also could potentially create for an interesting game dynamic, depending on what sort of treatment is implemented for them.

Though I largely do not enjoy Neurotrauma (and do not understand its popularity), I respect elements of its design; attempting to learn and play that mod with my friends (before we realized how brutally unforgiving and complex it is) forced me to realize a few shortcomings of the vanilla game's medical system: namely that there is no distinction between long-term and short-term injuries, and that the magical Health HUD Scanner goggles make diagnoses stupidly easy. I think there is potential in your mod to address the former of these two issues—the short-term/long-term thing— through how it heals the afflictions mentioned in point #3.

You could, for example, add in specific treatments for each of these that either take time to heal the patient or require surgery, as both of these options make it impractical (or impossible) to remove those afflictions in the heat of combat. Consider, also, that Deep Tissue Injuries are the results of explosives, while Organ Damage is a side-effect from certain medicines and Nausea (which, itself, is a side-effect of Chem/Opiate Withdrawal, Drunk, and Watcher's Gaze). There's lots of potential here for Organ Damage to be that aforementioned long-term consequence which players have to deal with. (I think we see a hint of this concept in the vanilla game with Opiate Addiction/Withdrawal, but it's implemented limply and ineffectually.)


I've rambled on for long enough, but I have one last point to touch back on, and that's Morphine: I rather enjoy your approach of making opiates a stabilizer for a wounded patient instead of a panacea. However, I feel like the opiates are not quite strong enough right now to fulfill this role. As I mentioned before, the healing power of Morphine has been reduced to being just under the vanilla Pomegrenade Extract. If it weren't for the Pomegrenade Extract's side effect of Oxygen Low, it would be the better medicine.

If I may propose a suggestion, perhaps tone the power of opiates back up slightly, maybe trim the duration down, and put the Opiate Addiction+Overdose back in. It would be cool to see players utilize Morphine not only in reaction to damage, but also in anticipation of damage.

Here to second everything said in comment #8, also the tools have annoyingly low durability
Awesome mod and a preferable alternative to Neurotrauma that improves on the base game

Perhaps make humans more vulnerable to damage like in the(now outdated) better human damage mod, and make combat related injuries more debilitating

To add to my last comment, when I say debilitating I mean not just slowed movement, but also mean shell-shock like symptoms like a blurred/static screen effect, ears ringing side effect, and even skill debuffs you suffer from until the wounds have been treated.

Cauterizer is op, needs to do like x5 more burn damage otherwise it completely replaces morphine/sutures/bandages
Opium/Morphine/Fantanyl seem to lack purpose, maybe make them heal internal/organ damage
Tool for taking out bullets have too little durability, maybe make it heal less gunshot affliction per use but have more uses
Lacking a tool for dealing with people in crit, like cpr alternative
i personally add https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2418273440 to fit in that niche tho its a bit op with healing all oxygen low at once
Armor implant costs too cheap/need to require perk to unlock.