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The USF and UKF infantry is designed by Relic to have barely strong weapon upgrades, so their weapon racks are usefull on more units (mostly for Riflemen/infantry section). The other factions have stronger upgrades, like lmg on mainlines, which is a huge advantage. The only way to make the racks more usefull is to remove those upgrades in line with the allies.
The axis have the strongest weapons. Nothing is stronger against a vehicle than a Panzershreck and the lmg34 is the strongest lmg. I am affraid that it will ruin the balance when these weapons can be added to any squad without limits. Especially when players use resource extended game modes.
I will review the costs, but think that any other buff is a big risk.
This point is rendered moot when you consider that the Fallschirmtruppe HQ allows you to drop a pack of 3 LMGs that can be either the 34 or 42 model - equippable on any unit that includes Obersoldaten and Volksgrenadiers.
In other words, it already exists. In the form of a 200 Manpower and Munitions drop.
What I want to do with this is make the Weapon Rack more relevant as it's supposed to be the way to arm your troops with additional weapons.
Why does Late-War Germany need the Luftwaffe to deliver them weapons for their frontline infantry.
The Fallschirmtruppe HQ is already a popular choice due to the existence of Weapon Specialists that allow you to bypass reinforcement time; the LMG drop only adds to the necessity of the HQ since it will allow you to make the MG34 Build viable.
The issue is that while this is true for USF, the same cannot be said for the Axis when these weapons exists as upgrades for their already limited infantry lineup.
In relation to costs,
Here is the big logistical question if you're considering the costs.
Do you want to spend more munitions to get the package, or do you want to spend less munitions to get just the weapon earlier (Cheaper costs means you can buy them sooner if you're on the backfoot in munitions and the racks bypass the time needed to upgrade them).
For example; the Panzerfusiliers already get dual Panzershrecks at a discounted cost of 60 per whereas Panzerjagers get access to Panzershrecks at 80 munitions per.
Those 20 additional munitions are going towards the respective package that grants them improvements in certain aspects such as offensive or defensive play.
In other words, if you choose to buy the racks, you get what you pay for - you're gonna lack the package of the respective unit but at least you'll have the same functionality.'
So it doesn't make sense that you'd make a different unit like say... the Jaeger Light Infantry squad spend more when Panzerjagers are more cost effective with those same munitions.
Same applies to Sturmpioneers - they specialize in close-mid range engagements, and you're giving them an MG34, which is counter-intuitive.
This works for USF because Rear Echelons have low firepower to begin with and thus their potential is only increased, not conflicted. Giving them a BAR, Bazooka or M1919A6 will only make them competitive and cheap engineers that are capable of laying down impressive supporting fire and makes them relevant to the USF battle, whereas with Axis, because the specialization is so strong, giving them off-hand weapons is considered to be a VERY bad idea.
I honestly wouldn't mind losing the MG34 upgrade on Volksgrenadiers, if it meant they could get two of them. Volks already have 3 upgrades in their menu so losing it in favor of being able to draw upon the Weapon Rack will encourage more research teching and less on mainline brute force.
You also have to realize that USF is considered to have the strongest infantry-centric lineup in the game. Paired with their ability to give themselves buffs in the form of the Lieutenant as well as through the Combined Arms ability - it's difficult to justify OKW's strengths in veterancy when USF can maintain their strengths from start to finish with their larger squad sizes and larger weapon potential.
This isn't the case when you consider that weapons such as the M1919A6 comes with additional abilities such as suppressive fire and act similarly in performance.
These weapon upgrades are still weapon upgrades. A Bazooka will still hit a light vehicle just as hard as the Panzershreck will.
Testing shows that the MG34 and M1919A6 are on par with each other.
5-Man Volksgrenadiers against a 5-Man Riflemen (No Sarge or Medic), both squads equipped with two LMGs; have similar performance, knocking each other out with a near 50% chance for either side to win.
Even if the Volksgrenadiers had an MG42 and MG34 combined, their performance was still mixed and rivalled the M1919A6, not outclassing it.
While it might become overpowered with dual MG42s - dual MG34s with Volks have been consistent and reliable for them to scale against fully equipped Riflemen and Infantry Sections.
Similarly, the severe limiting factor is weapon stacking - Only being able to apply one launcher with slightly better stats does not beat more numerous launchers.
More launchers = More likely to penetrate, hit and have a larger total damage output.
So having 2 Bazookas outpaces and outdamages a single Panzershreck.
In-game testing shows that the differences between the two are nominal with only 3-4% damage difference to health.
While from a numbers perspective, it seems balanced - in practice, it doesn't show.
One Panzershreck does not equate to two bazookas.
The same applies to one MG34 against 2 M1919A6s.
Two salvos from two bazookas will destroy a Luchs tank (Rear Echelon)
A panzershreck still needs to hit the Stuart 4 times to destroy it (Sturmpioneers)
In the time it took for the Sturmpioneers to destroy a Stuart - the Rear Echelon have long since destroyed the Luchs Tank.
Do you see the problem here?
In OKW's lineup, no infantry squad befits the need for a Panzershreck or MG34 if they do not fit the role. OKW are specialists, not versatile general-purpose units like USF.
JLIs can mimick Stormtroopers with the Panzershreck upgrade and Panzerfusiliers could potentially use it - but such roles are incredibly niche and lacking for the purposes of OKW's tactics and place in combat.
The Fallschirmtruppe HQ ability costs 200 ammo and has 60 seconds cooldown. That is hard to compare to the weapon racks which offer weapons for ~70ammo without cooldown. That is much more exploitable on high resource modes/maps.
I agree there is not much reason to purchase the racks and I would like to make them more useful, but I am not going to buff all German infantry and I don't know how to achieve that.
DP-28 from 60 to 45
Rifle grenade launcher from 75 to 60
Panzershreck from 80 to 70.
I also tested Riflemen vs Volksgrenadiers with 2 lmg's and surprisingly they indeed have similar performance. According to this site, https://coh2.serealia.ca/, the lmg34 should have 60% more dps than the M1919A6. Of course ingame results are the only truth and it seems only fair to remove the limit then. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!
Maybe the best solution is to just remove the limit and see what happens. Apparently my thoughts about at least the lmg were wrong.
I'm looking forward to seeing the new changes to the racks in general and I can't wait to see how it plays out!
I like the idea of cheaper weapon racks but until riflemen and conscripts stops winning 1 vs 1 against okw main infantry line, which should be better in this ocassions, then you can't expect any way of balance in therms of infantry battles.
¿You think that the change to the dp-28 is fine? In the current state, conscript with double lmg vs volks with double mg34 wins with the prone ability and they can sprint/get buffed from the commisar.
If they get more cheap dp-28 it means that this advantage will be available more early in the game doing it even more harder for volks to deal with the conscripts...
Edit: After testing in it again, they don't even need to prone to win the encounter.
The funny thing about the Conscript's "Hit-The-Dirt" is that it's meant to make them more survivable and immune to suppression - at the cost of some accuracy - so as to delay the enemy or to make a clutch capture.
What makes this insane and what I find excessively stupid, is that a Conscript squad with only three PPSHs can literally win against any German assault group at point blank range.
Even against the German Fallschirmjagers - an elite infantry unit that features the FG42 - will lose at point blank against PPSH Conscripts - More so if Hit-The-Dirt was activated.
Source : (Go to 1:47)
https://youtu.be/LyTlMYzahJs?t=107
Now that's a load'a Bull :D
They can't even ambush reliably because conscripts can hit the dirt, rush or break the encounter with a single urrah, and you are there... with a 340 unit doing nothing, waiting for the t70 or conscripts with lmg (because, if you have falls in the battlefield, the enemy HAS conscripts with double lmg and vet 2 at least) to wipe them out. Remember, these conscripts can be buffed with the commisar in which case they are even more durable and precise than these guys, ELITE GUYS. xD
I don't know what to tell you, OKW needs some type or ability or stats buff because it can't compete in anyway against the "hit the dirt", urrah and cheap conscripts line. The funny part is that OKW is meant to be this quality over quantity faction but even Werm Falls are better because of the buffs they get with the officer xD (and of course, more models)
Thanks for the update, keep up the good work!
I literally just made this realization earlier today...
Isn't that 7 Man upgrade a late game upgrade from T3 Mechanized Armor's Mobilize Reserves?
Why are Conscripts given their 7th man right from the get-go?
I get that he's an Ammo Bearer and probably has worse stats than the Conscripts but... isn't an additional man supposed to increase durability as well?
Wasn't that the point of the Ostheer Unteroffizier change?
EDIT : I just did testing...
A Volksgrenadier squad... loses to the lowest tier of conscripts...
They literally lose to Fresh Conscripts by a large margin.
A Grenadier squad with an Unteroffizier is literally on par with Fresh Conscripts and Volksgrenadiers can only take them down to less than half their squad size...
Also another thing... Why the hell is the Ammo Bearer given an SVT-40
He's meant to carry ammo for everyone and he gets the better gun
While the Unteroffizier is stuck with an MP40
W h a t
The mod had the 7th men way before the base game included it. The mod has overall different timings and upgrades. Volksgrenadiers win from non-upgraded Fresh Conscripts at long range in my test. However, it is not fair to compare these units 1:1. First the 7th men costs 60 mp to unlock and reinforce. Second, the Fresh Conscripts have no weapon upgrades, no grenade and not snare. If they would lose dps or durability, then what's left?
They don't have weapon upgrades or grenades but realize that they don't need EITHER of these to win against Oberkommando or Ostheer.
If you're in the early game, you won't have the command points nor the munitions to upgrade said conscripts and getting the grenade package isn't as relevant as it was in Vanilla due to how diverse the Soviet line-up is now.
Even then, you could just get Frontoviki Conscripts for an additional 20 manpower - the exact same you'd pay for USF Riflemen - in order to get access to those grenades.
Said grenades have a faster cooldown because of the ammo bearer - and the squad reloads faster - and they get an SVT - and they get a 7th man. Do you see the problem here?
Yes, they will lose to Volksgrenadiers without the 7th man upgrade but... why would they NOT have the upgrade? Why would you not give them the Ammo Bearer.
You're buying a cheaper unit at 200 manpower, so you're basically getting the 7th man for free. I'm assuming that they have less accuracy than regular Conscripts but due to volume of fire, their DPS is still high enough to compete against said units.
You're spending 260 manpower - the exact same as the Volksgrenadiers - and they will win through sheer numbers. Here's the big counterpoint to the weapons and grenade downside - their veterancy.
Since Fresh Cons will be promoted to higher tier cons through veterancy, the lack of weapons/grenades is moot. Not only will they be winning AND surviving against German infantry - they'll be able to eventually get weapons and grenades after being exposed to enough combat.
This can even be bypassed through the use of the ZiS-6 Transport Truck that can drop them DP-28s instead - an arguably better long-ranged option than SVT-40s.