Homeworld Remastered Collection

Homeworld Remastered Collection

Classic Races Remastered Mod
Balancing/Feedback Thread
With all the feedback that's likely to come in, mostly towards balancing, I figured a thread to discuss said balancing would be better than overloading the comments section. Going to kick things off here from the April 3rd patch. Feel free to join me! Let's start:

03/04/15 Patch:

Turanics:

The balancing introduced in this update makes the Turanic Raiders shine in combat. The range increases in the Attacker/Ion Frigate are noticable and fair, as is the increased output of missile corvettes versus capital ships. They are starting to stand on very good terms against their counterparts. The speed and agility boosts on the Multigun Cruiser, as well as improved effectiveness versus collectors, were good calls. Now, not only is closing the gap problem very well solved, the MGC feels more fitting to the 'light' profile; low drag, much ferocity.

Kadeshi:

The balancing and fixes also addressed some of the issues plaguing the Kadeshi. The income is flowing a little more when the Carrier is now involved. Advanced Swarmers are still effective against fighters but no longer feel as if normal Swarmers don't have a place once you've unlocked the design and missile pod upgrades. Hive Frigates are in a reasonable place when in combat currently but somewhat on the fence about the Drones; will be keeping an eye on them. Kudos on fixing the Pulsar Swarmers against Fighters and Corvettes; they are no longer a game-breaker in that field. Finally, the increased resource cost and reduced capacity for Resource Swarmers has helped to somewhat dampen their excessive income in-game.

Overall Thoughts:

An excellent, well-rounded balancing update. Turanics are in the clear combat wise and find themselves fighting a good, even fight. Kadeshi still have a bit of a reign for the moment due to Pulsar Anti-Capital effectiveness and Resource Collector build times. Otherwise, there is an aura of fairness starting to come around them.

After re-reviewing my previously submitted feedback, as well as current stats and times compared to counterparts, my thoughts stand at:

-Increasing the Kadeshi Resource Collector buildtime from the current estimation of 6-7 seconds up to 10-11 seconds would help ease the lingering monopoly I'm seeing. I also believe there could be an adjustment of the Turanic Resource Collector buildtime to help match its current price and stats. At present, estimation is at 26-27 seconds. Increasing to 29-30 seconds would seem like a comfortable/reasonable time for it.

-The suggested firerate reduction for Pulsar Swarmers is aimed at breeding diversity with their counterparts as well as resolving lingering power issues. Like all other Kadeshi craft, they should have the element of speed and firepower. It's just a matter of them having a bit much right now because of their firerate. 15-25% would seem like an optimal reduction. As an alternative, a weapon range reduction by a similar amount could also potentially work.

Last edited by Starwolf1991; 2 Apr, 2015 @ 10:28pm
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Showing 1-15 of 24 comments
Starwolf1991 2 Apr, 2015 @ 10:28pm 
Moved some feedback over from the comments and polished it up a bit for better clarification. Here it is:

Turanic Fighter Engine Overcharge Ability: A most certainly useful ability, but burns for an excessive amount of time; most maps are traversed end to end with plenty of leftover fuel. Feels like it should be carefully managed, like the Ion Frigate's 'Assassin' cloaking tech.
Suggestion:
-Increase the overcharge burn rate by roughly 15-20%

(Proposal) Kadeshi Mothership 'Inhibtor Field Generator': Kadeshi Motherships were built and equipped to trap their prey. To create more risk vs reward gameplay and tactical options, I propose making this an upgrade, similar to the Gravity Field Generator Platforms of other factions.
-Projected Resource Cost: 1800-2000 RUs
-Prerequisities: Super Heavy Chassis

Other mirrored elements for reference:

Turanic Capital Ship Armor Upgrade: Prerequisites is listed twice.

Turanic Support Corvette: At present, can be easy to confuse with the Standard Corvette from which it is based of. While not sure exactly what to suggest, small or subtle changes visually could help players distinquish it in the middle of battle.

LyNX_019 3 Apr, 2015 @ 3:29am 
Is it normal that Kadeshi Resource Swarmers still bring scavenge to allied mothership due to lack of resource drop off point?
But it's great that they nowl tranfer resources to kadeshi carrier rather than allied mothership far away

And i think the fuel pod hull gun firing "flame" need some adjust
it's too big atm, just like firing some big cannon :D
Emsolator  [developer] 3 Apr, 2015 @ 9:11am 
I just jammed the default hull defense gun on there as it was quicker than making a whole new one, but I will give it a second look over during the weekend see if I cannot find a smaller one or just make it.

Originally I was going to give the Support Corvette a docking pad underneath of it like the Taidaan and Kushan support corvs that let them each dock a single fighter. I abandoned it when I was going to make the Support Corv double as a minelayer but I later abandoned that idea too. Maybe installing the dock pad would not be a horrible thing, not only for visual but gameplay as well. Abandoning both concepts also meant abandoning the modding the corvette model to look like one or the other.
Last edited by Emsolator; 3 Apr, 2015 @ 9:11am
Emsolator  [developer] 3 Apr, 2015 @ 9:50pm 
As they are gettin their destroyer shortly, the Turanic's tree has been shaken up a bit with this last patch adding a dummy destroyer for more global testing. Suppose I should have attached the new destroyer's stats to it....hindsight.
Starwolf1991 3 Apr, 2015 @ 11:58pm 
New feedback as per the current patch, version 'Update 4g', 04/04/15:

Turanics:
The last few microupdates have been pretty good for the Turanics. AI-controlled Turanics seem to be responding very well; havent noticed any unusual behavior. The build limit adjustment and ion cannon fix has improved functionality as well as overall fairness of the Lord-Class Attack Carrier. The new construction events and verbal notifications for what ships are built are excellent too; it's good to be able to track the progress of my build queues like with the other factions.

(BUG) Standard Corvette Salvage Ability: While there are no problems with researching the ability, it is not currently being granted to Standard Corvettes upon completion. Both existing and newly built ones are affected.

Originally posted by Altroth:
Originally I was going to give the Support Corvette a docking pad underneath of it like the Taidaan and Kushan support corvs that let them each dock a single fighter. I abandoned it when I was going to make the Support Corv double as a minelayer but I later abandoned that idea too. Maybe installing the dock pad would not be a horrible thing, not only for visual but gameplay as well. Abandoning both concepts also meant abandoning the modding the corvette model to look like one or the other.
A docking pad is easily enough for the purpose of differentiating it. Sometimes, the simplest solutions are the best ones. ;)

Since you mention the minelayer meanwhile, I might have an idea for an additional corvette class in conjunction with a fighter or frigate class. More on that when I do some exploring and comparisons. Since the Cloaking Tech for the Ion Frigate comes from Cataclysm, also doing some searching in there for ideas.

Originally posted by Altroth:
As they are gettin their destroyer shortly, the Turanic's tree has been shaken up a bit with this last patch adding a dummy destroyer for more global testing. Suppose I should have attached the new destroyer's stats to it....hindsight.

Placeholder will work for now. Its giving the Turanics a little breathing room and stopping them from rushing carriers too early at the moment. Looking forward to seeing how the new Turanic Destroyer turns out when it arrives. Any confirmation on what the new beauty will have at this stage? Tying in the post in the Kadeshi Support Cruiser thread it was mentioned in, 2 Large Projectile Cannon Turrets and 2 Guided Missile Launchers (Instead of 3, after comparisons with counterparts) would be a great proposition. Reduced speed (roughly 270-275 m/s) but higher durability (roughly 15-18% greater) versus the Kushan 'Revelation' and Taiidan 'Skaal Tel' would gel well with it.

Edit:

Kadeshi:

(Bug) Multi-Beam/Hive Frigates: These frigates are having moments where they refuse to abort attack despite being giving move orders. They will also not hyperspace jump at times, despite having enough resources and correctly setting their coordinates.

Pulsar Swarmers: I've made comparisons between them and the Bentusi Super Acolyte, Hiigaran Pulsar Corvettes and the turrets of the Hiigaran Battlecruiser. At the end of the day, my conclusions are this. In terms of lethalty per individual shot and range, Pulsar Swarmers are on even terms with the others but ultimately the fire rate is the game changer. So I update my suggestion of adjusting their firing rate to making it 1:1 with the Hiigarans. One shot, one second, as per the Homeworld Wikia entry:
http://homeworld.wikia.com/wiki/Pulsar_Beam

Fuel Pod: As it is officially listed as having a Medium Projectile Cannon, like what the Hive Frigate currenly has two of, perhaps it could be brought a little more in line with it? The Hive Frigate ones are quite tame at the moment, so it'd work nicely here too.
Last edited by Starwolf1991; 4 Apr, 2015 @ 3:48pm
LyNX_019 4 Apr, 2015 @ 6:28am 
Update 4g feedback
Turanic AI don't build mobile refinery (Maybe due to research lock?) and turret
Turanic AI priority to build a lot attack carriers (5carriers)before building destroyer
Opponent Taiidan AI already have 3 destroyers out when Turanic AI finally get the first destroyer
Turanic AI have 4 carriers stay on the same resources pt not sure why
My Turanic mobile refinery have resources collectors docking there for a long time(maybe 5min? they were not repairing or transfering resources) and other resources collectors can still pass through it and transfer resources
But so far the Turanic AI worked very well:)

Kadeshi AI don't build mobile refinery
Kadeshi mothership and carrier don't have Salvage dropoff pad so a lot AI resources collectors just idling near wreckages
AI swarmers rush to reinforce battfield one by one rather than in group (they do group up to attack)

btw, Opponent Taiidan AI tend to build corvettes ONLY against swarmers, but their outnumbered corvettes simply got raped, and they just keep building corvettes again and again
due to lack of assault frigates and destroyers support, Taiidan AI got overrun easily by swarmer blobs

----
Turanic turrets don't have auto repair and cannot be repair by corvette :(
Kadeshi mothership and Fuel pod sometimes have docking delay (swarmer wait for a long time before docking)
Kadeshi carrier not show on senior manager
Research: Fuel pod repair system- should be resource swarm repair system now
Starwolf1991 4 Apr, 2015 @ 6:36am 
When it comes to the Taiidan rushing carriers, its just like other factions. I find myself facing a lot of carriers from them before their first destroyers come online so that's pretty much normal for now; as is them only building corvettes againt Kadeshi. Taiidan really dont know how to fight them right now. I'd advise trying your luck against the other factions. I get good fights against the Hiigarans and Kushan.

Haven't seen the delays in the Turanic Mobile Refinery personally. I'll take a look next time I do a round. As for resource swarmers, they should have the ability by default to repair as per one of the changelog updates. It's looking to get updated as a researchable ability down the road.
Last edited by Starwolf1991; 4 Apr, 2015 @ 6:36am
23-Down 5 Apr, 2015 @ 6:41am 
It's obvious that not much effort were given yet so the Kadeshi so I'm sure you're aware of the current issues they have.

Multi-Beam-Frigate: Has a weird issue whenever I build a ship it's heading out immediately to attack some enemy ships.. Ships that are not even in my sensor range at that point. Giving a stop or movement order gets refused as 1 second later my ship once sets an attack order into the unknown.

Furthermore I believe this ship needs a buff in it's build time as well as a longer firing range and damage output. Taiidan Ion frigates outranged my ship not even discussing destroyers and HC,BCs here.

Carrier:

The construction of 1 takes ages by the time it has finally been constructed my enemy swarmed me with frigates , corvettes etc.. I suggest enabling the dual build the same way the HW1 races got it.

Suggestion: Considering the names the ships got and the way they played in original HW1 vanilla. I'd recommend probably enabling the squadron system for the swarmers in Vaygr formation sytle. The word swarmer indicates a swarm. Might be interesting seeing that of course no dual building then.

Regarding missing ship types check out HWU mod they had tons of interesting ship designs including HCs etc..
Starwolf1991 5 Apr, 2015 @ 12:07pm 
The Kadeshi do have some issues; Their current setup at the same time addresses issues that could be there.

Multi-beam Frigates definitely do have their issues responding to commands. But stats and range wise? Here's the thing; they aren't meant to have as much range and are sluggish, as demonstrated in the Gardens of Kadesh. However, what makes them fearsome is not only the abuse one can put them under, but being able to deal back several times more. These traits are what inspired Kiith Somtaaw to build the Dervish Multi-Beam Frigate in the Cataclysm era. In my tests, I have seen how multi-beams working together are more scary than Ion Arrays without cloaking or the Kushan/Taiidan equivalents.

As mentioned earlier, the enemy swarming with mass numbers too early is an AI-specfic issue; something hopefully Gearbox can address alongside problems plaguing formations and the stats of Homeworld 1 era ships. For now, swarm them right back! It's easy to amass the Swarmers without a second build queue and they are deadly as all hell in the early-mid game when coordinated rather than let loose. A second queue or squadron system would make them absolutely murderous in a number of ways balance-wise at the moment, the latter also not being something associated with a classic era faction (Kushan/Taiidan/Kadeshi/Turanic). However, having a second build queue would be nice, I will admit. :)
Last edited by Starwolf1991; 5 Apr, 2015 @ 8:23pm
Emsolator  [developer] 5 Apr, 2015 @ 7:41pm 
The second build queue actually works with making moduels which (eventually) will be components of the carrier and mothership to let you customize them. A mothership in testing can already build a hyperspace inhibitor, but I have issues with its positioning, it being attackable, ect. I know it can be done, just a matter of smashing it with a stick until it functions.

Hopefully they will fill in some of the holes the Kads have. We will see!
Starwolf1991 5 Apr, 2015 @ 8:23pm 
Modules for the Kadeshi Mothership? Now that is something I could get behind for a classic era faction; I'd be interested to see where this leads to. If you were to make the second build queue something you'd need to build up towards and/or a trade-off versus some other things, then that would work pretty well I would say.
Last edited by Starwolf1991; 5 Apr, 2015 @ 11:13pm
LyNX_019 9 Apr, 2015 @ 3:19am 
5a
My AI turanic allies stop building any ship in the mid game for 5-10min (maybe they saving res for destroyer? idk)
And the destroyer target small fighters & corvettes when there are a lot frigates firing on them...

PS:The Turanic new destroyer look a bit raw:D
Emsolator  [developer] 9 Apr, 2015 @ 1:15pm 
I will glance at the AI again, I thought I had it balanced so it would not go stupid about trying to save up for a destroyer too early. Everything was just peachy before that went into their routine. At least they are not forgetting to research the destroyer items before attempting to build one, an early problem I could not figure out for awhile.

What really is annoying is that the Multi-gun cruiser caused almost no issues when I put that in there. AI was all like "Sure, no problem, Boss. We know what to do with this." AI is toying with me.....
Emsolator  [developer] 9 Apr, 2015 @ 3:45pm 
Did not notice any huge issues but it does seem to put slightly too high a priority on attempting a destroyer rush. Toned it down some....it will still sometimes attempt a destroyer rush as will every race's AI (the devs rigged it that way), but it will not happen so often for the Turanics now. It will also build carriers at a more reasonable rate.

Oh and my models are never 100% perfect. Until just recently I had no help at all...everything from AI to setting up the races to art, was all me. I am no artist and will never claim to be. At least the models do not attempt to screw with my mind like the AI scripts do.
Starwolf1991 10 Apr, 2015 @ 12:40am 
Feedback from version 5a, since I've had time to play with it a bit. Here's how its looking:

The Turanic Destroyer is a really fun ship to use as a dedicated anti-capital ship. I'm really feeling what its bringing to the Turanic fleets in its current role. The addition of flak guns as mentioned in other threads will certainly be interesting, furthering its capabilities and certainly (unless I'm mistaken) putting it on par with the Somtaaw Deacon-Class Destroyer. I would say careful attention to stats should be paid so it doesnt get too far ahead of its counterparts once the flak guns are in. They are pretty comfy for now as is, but I do welcome the versatility it will further create.....and the confusion of Kushan commanders who will take this discovery of this tech with them into the Homeworld 2 era!

Never had an issue with the Attack Carrier's Ion beams not firing after being researched; certainly an interesting bug. All the same, can never be too careful XD

As for the Kadeshi, I noticed the reduction in the missile damage advanced swarmers; I say you got them in a perfect place right now. They are still great, but no longer put multigun/missile/laser/pulsar corvettes out of business. I'm also not sure what to suggest for the Resource Swarmer other than previous, but the gathering rate change seems to be reasonable for behaviour purposes. I'll keep an eye on them for now.

Keep the good times rolling!
Last edited by Starwolf1991; 11 Apr, 2015 @ 3:07am
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