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Cities: Skylines >  Workshop > Apoc's Workshop > Configurable Transport Capacity > Discussions
Configurable Transport Capacity
Description Discussions5 Comments118 Change Notes
derek328 27 Mar, 2015 @ 11:07am
Real Life numbers and references
Hi all! This is to help forward my post in the comments section, thanks for the support! For people looking to reference some real life numbers, based on the game's asset designs:

- Bus: 106. Based on the Mercedes Benz Citaro 12M Euro-VI 2 doors. (Citaro is MB's regular-service bus lineup. This particular bus model has the same number of doors and similar scale as C:SL's bus asset.)

- Plane: 407. Based on the A380-800 for Korean Air. (Full double-deck plane, four-engines in total. Arguably most similar to C:SL's plane asset.)

- Train: 338 or 216 first-class. Based on the SP1900/1950 Millennium Train for Hong Kong MTR. (Designed by the Japanese. Features near rounded design like C:SL's train asset.)

- Metro: 313. Based on the M-Train heavy rail for Hong Kong MTR. (Designed by the English and French, later refreshed by the Australians. World record for "highest attained capacity per hour".)

- Ship: 2056. Based on the Carnival Fantasy-class cruise ships. (Features 8 observable levels, Carnival's fin-styled funnel, similar quarter deck designs etc like C:SL's ship asset.)

Notes:
1. The configuration file for this mod requires you to enter the capacity for each train and metro carriage, not the total capacity for the entire metro or train.

2. Population total in C:SL without modding is 1.04M people. Each cim represents 1 person. The Population density allowed by C:SL (1.04M total people in 100KM^2 total area) means you will be able to create cities very close to even the biggest like New York City, Hong Kong, etc.

3. Although not all of the 1.04M people will be rendered on screen as a graphics optimization, they are still tracked statistically, so using real-life based transportation numbers work well.

4. Recommended with No Despawn mod, and PopBalanceMod.
Last edited by derek328; 27 May, 2015 @ 3:20am
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Showing 1-15 of 72 comments
Kazumi 27 Mar, 2015 @ 11:54am 
LOL interesting refrence. Thanks ^^
#1
NightlinerSGS 27 Mar, 2015 @ 5:59pm 
Edit: After I typed all the stuff below I realised that the mod requires capacity per car instead of the entire train capacity. So your numbers are correct ;) I'll still leave the post up though so people can get an idea of the total numbers that fit into the trains.

---

The longest SP1900 on the Hong Kong East Rail Line consists of 12 cars and has a maximum capacity (standing + seating) of 4982 Passengers.

The C:S train has 8 cars. Assuming one of these is a first class car without standing accomodations, we'd end up at 418 seats + 2764 standing = 3182 total capacity per train.

The C:S metro has 6 cars. Every M-Train car (there are no first class cars on the metro) has 45 seats and room for 268 standing passengers, which comes to 270 seats + 1608 standing = 1878 total capacity per train.
Last edited by NightlinerSGS; 27 Mar, 2015 @ 6:08pm
#2
derek328 27 Mar, 2015 @ 6:38pm 
Originally posted by NightlinerSGS:
Edit: After I typed all the stuff below I realised that the mod requires capacity per car instead of the entire train capacity. So your numbers are correct ;) I'll still leave the post up though so people can get an idea of the total numbers that fit into the trains.

Lol thanks.

The configuration file for this mod requires you to enter the capacity for each train and metro carriage, not the total capacity for the entire metro or train. As a result, you don't have to worry how many carriages are on each train or carriage in C:SL, as long as each carriage capacity is correct, your in-game representation is already quite realistic. It will just x6 or x8 for metro or train respectively.
Last edited by derek328; 27 Mar, 2015 @ 6:59pm
#3
roberto tomás 28 Mar, 2015 @ 5:12am 
why did you start a separate thread after mine? =P

I created a thread for exactly things like the original post.
Last edited by roberto tomás; 28 Mar, 2015 @ 5:17am
#4
derek328 28 Mar, 2015 @ 5:37am 
I didn't want to hijack your topic and decided to start a new one.

Your method is nice for people who want to use the "most common" numbers out there, like the most common aircraft capacity, the most common ship capacity, so forth. They are around-the-ballpark numbers, and that's nice for people who want to use that type of data.

My method focuses on precision. I look at the actual in-game assets, and then try to match them by design to the most accurate real-life capacity numbers possible. For example when dealing with planes, the plane asset in C:SL is has four engines, and two decks of seating. As a result, I use the A380-800's capacity number for Korean Air. By comparison, your method only tells people to use the most common aircraft's capacity - the A350 - but that plane is neither double decked nor flying with 4 engines.

See the difference now? Yours is more widely applicable, and mine is more precise. Two different approaches. :)
#5
Baleur 29 Mar, 2015 @ 9:13am 
Brilliant work
#6
Phoenix C64 30 Mar, 2015 @ 5:31am 
using "real life numbers" is not really applicable tho... ingame your city might have 25K pop when the same city in real life would probably be around 100K pop. to get a rough estimate, multiply ingame numbers *4 or *5 ... so if I make a train that ingame can carry 1K people, IRL that would be 4K or 5K, which is far from accurate PLUS it totally breaks game traffic balance and makes stuff waaaaaaayyy too easy.

I suggest to everyone to tamper a bit with the settings to find a better balance between "real" and "simultated
Last edited by Phoenix C64; 30 Mar, 2015 @ 5:31am
#7
WIbigdog 30 Mar, 2015 @ 2:12pm 
Originally posted by Phoenix C64:
using "real life numbers" is not really applicable tho... ingame your city might have 25K pop when the same city in real life would probably be around 100K pop. to get a rough estimate, multiply ingame numbers *4 or *5 ... so if I make a train that ingame can carry 1K people, IRL that would be 4K or 5K, which is far from accurate PLUS it totally breaks game traffic balance and makes stuff waaaaaaayyy too easy.

I suggest to everyone to tamper a bit with the settings to find a better balance between "real" and "simultated

Although to balance it the other way, a LOT more people use mass transit in this game than in real life. A city of 8k with 1.5k of those people using the bus a week? Doubtful, especially if you have to pay to use the bus.

Also, the density of buildings once you get to high density is actually pretty close. If you unlock the tiles you get 100 square KM to work with and have a city with 1million people (it's been done) you have a population density of 10,000/KM². New york has a population density of 10,465/KM². So it's pretty close actually. Milwaukee, WI on the other hand is 2,399.5/km², which is less extreme than NY, NY.
Last edited by WIbigdog; 30 Mar, 2015 @ 2:21pm
#8
derek328 30 Mar, 2015 @ 5:24pm 
Originally posted by WIbidog:
Originally posted by Phoenix C64:
using "real life numbers" is not really applicable tho... ingame your city might have 25K pop when the same city in real life would probably be around 100K pop. to get a rough estimate, multiply ingame numbers *4 or *5 ... so if I make a train that ingame can carry 1K people, IRL that would be 4K or 5K, which is far from accurate PLUS it totally breaks game traffic balance and makes stuff waaaaaaayyy too easy.

I suggest to everyone to tamper a bit with the settings to find a better balance between "real" and "simultated

Although to balance it the other way, a LOT more people use mass transit in this game than in real life. A city of 8k with 1.5k of those people using the bus a week? Doubtful, especially if you have to pay to use the bus.

Also, the density of buildings once you get to high density is actually pretty close. If you unlock the tiles you get 100 square KM to work with and have a city with 1million people (it's been done) you have a population density of 10,000/KM². New york has a population density of 10,465/KM². So it's pretty close actually. Milwaukee, WI on the other hand is 2,399.5/km², which is less extreme than NY, NY.

WIbidog is right here. Even if you don't mod the game's population top limit (a little over 1,000,000 people), it still translates to about 10,000 people per KM^2 (and you have 100KM^2 to play with using the 25 tiles).

Like WIbidog said, this population density easily beats some of the most densly packed cities in real life. So by giving your public transportation buses, metro carriages etc some real life capacity specs, your C:SL public transportation system should behave about as realistically as it gets for most city simulation games.
#9
Phoenix C64 30 Mar, 2015 @ 11:06pm 
i don't know if i explained myself here.

if 1 CIM = ~4 real life persons
a building with 10 CIMs = ~40 real life persons
a bus with 30 CIMs = ~120 real life persons.
a bus with 105 CIMs = ~420 real life persons.

now please tell me, how is a bus with 420 ppl. "realistic", or balanced?

this mod and the buildingpopbalance mod make the game too easy (which might be good for some people) and they mess with the balance of the whole game as transport (this mod) and buildings (popbalance mod) increase their numbers, but THE REST OF THE GAME DOESNT
#10
WIbigdog 30 Mar, 2015 @ 11:39pm 
Where does this 1 cim = 4 people come into play? It doesn't make the game too easy, it makes it so there's not a solid mass of 500 people waiting for a bus.
#11
derek328 31 Mar, 2015 @ 12:02am 
Originally posted by Phoenix C64:
i don't know if i explained myself here.

if 1 CIM = ~4 real life persons
a building with 10 CIMs = ~40 real life persons
a bus with 30 CIMs = ~120 real life persons.
a bus with 105 CIMs = ~420 real life persons.

now please tell me, how is a bus with 420 ppl. "realistic", or balanced?

this mod and the buildingpopbalance mod make the game too easy (which might be good for some people) and they mess with the balance of the whole game as transport (this mod) and buildings (popbalance mod) increase their numbers, but THE REST OF THE GAME DOESNT

And to be honest I don't know where you got the 1 cim = 4 real life persons presumption. Why does it have to equal 4? Not 1? Not 2? Where is the basis for your calculations?

Personally, I have not seen any proof anywhere supporting your argument that 1 cim must equal 4 real life persons. So in my mind, 1 cim only equals 1 person, and in this case, my capacity numbers would play quite nicely.

But, if you are somehow convinced that 1 Cim MUST equal 4 people, then by all means use the config file with your own numbers. It's configurable for a reason, chap.
#12
Phoenix C64 31 Mar, 2015 @ 12:11am 
The 4=1 was mentioned on their prerelease stream and they explained that the numbers ingame are not real life numbers, but the exact numbers of simulated cims. If you have 50K pop you and find every single one of them, get their info, follow them, etc.

This is called "fudged numbers" and every sim game does this.

And dude, it doesn't take much to figure out that the fudge factor in this game is roughly x4 or x5

You actually thought that the population number ingame was real life accurate?
Look at your city. You really think a city that big woul only have that low of population? Now multiply that number x4. Oh! Suddenly makes more sense, right?

Mods like this heavily unbalance the game because they change the fudge factor for just one thing (transport in this case) but don't change the rest of the game.

And sorry, but if you have 500ppl at bus stops, then it is not a problem with the game, you just suck at city planning. Don't try to fix it with cheated super buses and L2play.
#13
WIbigdog 31 Mar, 2015 @ 12:25am 
So what you're saying is that this game is perfectly balanced. Traffic is perfect. The train volume is perfect. That CO has gotten absolutely zero wrong with the game? Come off it.

I can only have so many buses going through one area. Unless all my traffic on a street is going to be buses, there is no way to pick up the amount of people that travel to high density commercial zones.
#14
Phoenix C64 31 Mar, 2015 @ 12:37am 
Build metro and train, stop building Lego grid cities and l2play. That's what I am saying.

100k hard mode city. (Including no car despawn) Zero problems with traffic or transport. Tested this adding and popbalance for several days and removed them due unbalance.

The game is not perfect, but every single person I have seen complaining didn't have a clue what they were doing. In fact I personally have fixed 12 cities for people on my twitch, by loading their save game. Every single one of them was complaining about bug, AI, unbalance. I proved every one of them wrong.

About the fudge factor: doesn't matter if it's x4 x5 x1,2 or x1000. The fact is you can't just alter the factor for transport and NOT balance it with the rest of the game.
#15
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