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Offensive spells are flashy and look nice, but I feel like I mainly use them as (slight) added damage to benefit a particular engagement or, most of the time, to use them as a form of crowd control.
Knocking enemies off their feet right before a cavalry charge is useful, one reason why I really like the item for lords and heroes that gives the breath attack - the actual damage of spells feels rather negligible, aside from some single target spells.
I'm not saying it needs a serious buff, but when I have to choose between having a lvl 30 mage or lvl 30 melee hero, the melee hero can usually perform a lot better and provide different (although somewhat weaker) buffs more reliably for the whole duration of the battle while racking up a lot of kills himself.
to contrast this, in TT warhammer, a vortex spell would instead kill outright 1/2 or 1/3 of the models hit. So no HP damage, just straight up casualties (which impacts leadership in TW far more than taking HP damage).
So i have never seen a vortex cause anybody to rout.
1) how many spells should you cast with your wizard in an average battle? Now currently I probably cast around 5 - 10 spells. Thats a pretty good number, but there is still a lot of spam during the heat of battle. Maybe with LONGER recharge times, but lower mana cost, you'd be foreced to not spam one spell over and over, but could use fewer more varied spells in battle.
2) Should there be any spell capable of wrecking over 50% of a single unit? Like lets say purple sun goes off perfectly. Is it that horrible if it can kill over half of a unit that it hits?
3) Should taking multiple casters do more to improve the mana pool? Currently, theres almost never a reason to take more than 1. If I take 2 wizards, how much should my magic recharge and magic pool be increased over taking just 1?
Add more as you see fit.
Basically anybody who plays tabletop feels extremely underwhelmed with magic. I feel like CA only tested this game on "normal" unit scale and felt magic was OK, but almost everybody plays on ULTRA. So... balancing magic for ULTRA makes more sense IMO.
I'm also in favor of giving Metal and Death magic to Empire battle wizards, in addition to giving them Battle wizard lords to lead armies with.
Let's stay with the Purple Sun as the example spell - at best I feel like I could use it around 3 times pretty realiably in most fights if I focus on it.
Going from that number, I could kill up to 1 1/2 units in every battle I send my wizard into without doing anything else.
For a lord I think that number is okay, a high level melee lord for me usually manages above a 100 kills easily, some of the stronger ones (let's say, chaos lord on chaos dragon) can easily manage 200-300 when put into tight infantry clusters.
For a hero I think that number could be a tad high, especially considering that the AI (atleast for me) tends to behave rather stupidly in battles and clumps it's infantry quite a lot, giving me good odds for atleast decent spell hits, admittedly with some risk to my own units.
I get that it's accurate from a tabletop perspective, but from a long term campaign standpoint I don't quite enjoy the idea.
Also, it's not like the AI will never try to use these back at you. Maybe they will be able to use them effectively against you as well (to some extent).
I don't necessarily think fireball is too weak, but it's just expensive in magicc cost compared to almost any many other spells that do damage.
In general, if your wizard spends 100% of his time casting offensive damage dealing spells, then he should on average be able to do a decent amount of damage. Close to the amount that a melee character would do. Right? So getting 200 kills with a wizard who is only casting fireballs the whole game shouldn't be all that bad.
Right now I doubt I can get more that 60 kills with a high level wizard using every ounce of magic I can. So obviously that's kinda pathetic.
And also remember that since the magic pool is limited, you CANNOT spam 5+ wizards who are all casting damage spells at the same time and each earn 200+ kills. That couldn't happen, at all.
So allowing it to happen for a single character really isn't that crazy. What I think it'd do is force people to be smarter with tactics. If magic can be used to deny a flanking force from being effective (by killing it, debuffing it, etc.) then wizards can be more than just damage dealers. They can be effective tactical instruments. So you don't just rely on magic to kill stuff, you could rely on it to protect your flanks or ensure you'll get good charges, and other tactical stuff like that
Magic is pretty powerful right now. Death can likely use some serious toning down, at least on normal.
If there are going to be magic mods, they would have to be made so you download the one for the unit size you'll be playing on. On normal, while you may not get to many kills with magic, if you save your magic for the most important units, you should easily clean up anything. Magic sniping is pretty powerful at the moment.
Vortex spells could probably use a little love. I think I cast one once maybe. Except for the fire vortex, which is more useful for the leadership damage it does, none of them are worth anything.
Buffs I feel are right where they should be. If you change anything, increase the duration. The buffs have turned the tide for some rather weak units, to kill some rather elite ones. Or simply make my zombies tanky as hell.
Breath... Worthless for damage. Great for crowd control. I generally use it to ruin charges, rather than before I charge in. Though I do generally charge in right after just to tie up units.
But, all balance aside, I think someone should make a lore friendly magic mod. While I wouldn't want to see it balance wise, I would love to see it how I think it should actually be. I'd definitely enjoy the campains a lot more.
But, yeah. As is, I've managed to get just short of five hundred kills with Suneater in a battle, and can just about solo armies with him. With Manfred on his mount, and a terrorghiest, I can literally solo entire armies by kite diving them. Only spells I cast were ones to snipe heroes. Otherwise, you literally don't need anything else. Especially with your healing spells for Manfred, and your Gheist heals over time. Really puts magic into perspective as being weak. (And yet the single target spells are SUPER over powered. Especially Accuse.)
Technically from a lore point of view and from the TT army books, empire should be able to use 8 lores, the main 8. Including death magic. I think it's not looked on with as much admiration, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
The one reason death magic isn't a favorite for the empire is because the army NEEDED buffing spells to win. Absolutely needed them. So lore of life, lore of light, etc. Were all preferable to death magic.
So make the empire more like that. Make the buff spells almost required, so taking death magic would be a handicap.
Anyway buff spells just need longer durations, I agree, and maybe the vortexes need to be viable.
Just doing some tiny amount of damage over a huge area isn't really worth anything. The vortexes need to actually kill some people!
Why should I cast purple sun on 10 blobbed units and get 0 kills when I can use fate of bjuna on one of those units and kill almost the entire unit?
It's much more valuable to kill off 1 unit fully than to kill 10% of the health from 10 units, IMO. Because that 1 unit you kill can be the only one you need to gain a tactical advantage.
Also, i'd like to see heavens magic be more tactical. Maybe if windblast had more range and was casted quicker, you could use it to seriously delay an enemy unit. Like imagine if you're being charged by 2 units, but you could cast windblast and delay one of them by long enough to defeat the other individual unit in melee.
And I saw some good points in this discussion, increased winds of magic when you have multiple spellcasters.
Lore of vamps needs to be seriously buffed over vanilla to be effective, completely agree.
https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=695024040
Rebalances magic.