The user Dariorthan proposed additional Demilitarize war demands with increased length and cost. Such addition is easy enough to implement. The only question is: how to not make it not "overkill"?

I think that 3 Demilitarize demands are enough: Demilitarize for 10, 15 and 20 years.

A base cost of 50, 70 and 100 for each one of them seems appropiate, effectively making the longer demilitarizations a viable choice only for pacifistis and fanatic pacifists (that have the cost of the demands reduced by -10 and -20, respectively), and pretty much impossible for militarists (that have a +10 and +20 penalty to the cost, respectively).

Alternatively, the cost could be inversely proportional to the size of the country. That way, just huge, power hungry, warmongering empires could be demilitarized.

What do you think?

My proposition is more complex I guess, as I'm not the developper and I'm not going to code the beast that's only suggestions :p. Why don't you put a influence monthly cost by demilitarize demand and the obligation to the winner to protect the looser (like Japan case).


Two type of Demilitarize demands:

• Permanant - cost 2 influences by month and can be revoked by winner after the first 10 years
  
• Termpory
  
  • 10 years - warscore cost 40 - cost 1 influence by month - cannot be revoked
    
  • 15 years - warscore cost 60 - cost 1 influence by month - cannot be revoked
    
  • 20 years - warscore cost 80 - cost 1 influence by month - cannot be revoked
    

In all case, the winner have the obligation to protect the looser during the period otherwise the others empires will use the strenghless of the looser to invade him.

Maybe the warscore cost and the cost in influence by month could be proportional to ratio between military power of the both looser and winner.

This suggestion requires to develop new dialogue on diplomaty contact screen I suppose.

Here is another idea: maybe in function of the winner empire trait (militarist or pacifist) we should create factions on his side. For exemple, if the winner is pacifist and decide to permanantly demilitarize the looser, some factions of his own pacific population will appear with the revendication to revoke the looser demilitarized status. Those populations could have a hapiness malus too (-5% for exemple). If the winner is pacifist and decide to temporary demilitarize the looser, then just add this malus to pacifics populations without creating factions.

I guess it's a good balence. Demilitarize a country should not be easy and abordable for everybody in my sence.

Originally posted by Flamm:

In all case, the winner have the obligation to protect the looser during the period otherwise the others empires will use the strenghless of the looser to invade him.

^ exactly. And to prevent the player from instantly declaring war after 10 years again and again to always win there should be a one sided non-aggression pact of +5 years. Because, who would fulfill a disarmement-agreement, knowing the oppressor will instantly attack after 10 years?

Originally posted by eren:

Originally posted by Flamm:

In all case, the winner have the obligation to protect the looser during the period otherwise the others empires will use the strenghless of the looser to invade him.

^ exactly. And to prevent the player from instantly declaring war after 10 years again and again to always win there should be a one sided non-aggression pact of +5 years. Because, who would fulfill a disarmement-agreement, knowing the oppressor will instantly attack after 10 years?

Well seen, so, the Winner should have to protect the looser during the period, and after the revocation will have a non agression pack during more 10 years ?

It's seems hard ? But I don't see another way to prevent as you said, the winner to redeclare war after. That's a hard gameplay problematic, I can fully understand now why this is not a native war demand :D

About making you have an unbreakable defensive pact with the demilitarized nation for the duration of the effect: unfortunately, I didn't find a way to make it happen, be it through the war demand or events.

However, there's an alternative: I could make a new subject type ("Demilitarized Subject?") that, like Tributaries, have diplomatic freedoms and don't have to join your wars - but you have to protecty them if they are ever attacked. This subject type would be automatically released once the effect wears off.

Interestingly enough, this approach would make it possible for the demilitarized nation to rebel and declare war against you - getting rid of the force demilitarization if they win (... as if it would be possible).

Originally posted by lpslucasps:

About making you have an unbreakable defensive pact with the demilitarized nation for the duration of the effect: unfortunately, I didn't find a way to make it happen, be it through the war demand or events.

However, there's an alternative: I could make a new subject type ("Demilitarized Subject?") that, like Tributaries, have diplomatic freedoms and don't have to join your wars - but you have to protecty them if they are ever attacked. This subject type would be automatically released once the effect wears off.

Interestingly enough, this approach would make it possible for the demilitarized nation to rebel and declare war against you - getting rid of the force demilitarization if they win (... as if it would be possible).

I agree, that's the good way to do it I guess.

I've found a way to make the winner guarantee the independence of the loser!

I think an independence guarantee is better than a defensive pact — after all, why would I want the support of a demilitarized country in a war? Such pact would be, at best, very asymetrical. First I destoy their military, then I make them participate in my wars. Not cool, hum?

So here's my idea:

As Flamm suggested, there'll be two types of Demilitarization, temporary and permanent.

• Temporary:
  
  • 10 years - Base Warscore Cost: 50 - has to guarantee the independence of the loser for 12 years
    
  • 15 years - Base Warscore Cost: 70 - has to guarantee the independence of the loser for 17 years
    
  • 30 years - Base Warscore Cost: 100 - has to guarantee the independence of the loser for 32 years
• Permanent - a special kind of vassalization. The loser becomes a Demilitarized Subject. He can expand, declare wars and make other diplomatic actions, but is protected by the overlord if attacked. The warscore is calculated taking into account the size of the countries.

Originally posted by lpslucasps:

I've found a way to make the winner guarantee the independence of the loser!

I think an independence guarantee is better than a defensive pact — after all, why would I want the support of a demilitarized country in a war? Such pact would be, at best, very asymetrical. First I destoy their military, then I make them participate in my wars. Not cool, hum?

So here's my idea:

As Flamm suggested, there'll be two types of Demilitarization, temporary and permanent.

• Temporary:
  
  • 10 years - Base Warscore Cost: 50 - has to guarantee the independence of the loser for 12 years
    
  • 15 years - Base Warscore Cost: 70 - has to guarantee the independence of the loser for 17 years
    
  • 30 years - Base Warscore Cost: 100 - has to guarantee the independence of the loser for 32 years
• Permanent - a special kind of vassalization. The loser becomes a Demilitarized Subject. He can expand, declare wars and make other diplomatic actions, but is protected by the overlord if attacked. The warscore is calculated taking into account the size of the countries.

Nice done, does the overload can revoke the permanent demilitarization at any time ? Or is there a minimum duration ?

Originally posted by Flamm:

Nice done, does the overload can revoke the permanent demilitarization at any time ? Or is there a minimum duration ?

My intention is to set a minimum duration to release the Demilitarized Subject. Probably 10 years. I'm still researching if it's possible.

Version 2.0 released, with a lot of changes!

Now, there are four demilitarizing war demands, divided into two types: Temporary and Permanent.

The temporary demilitarizations vary in length (10, 15 and 30 years) and cost.

The permanent demilitarization will turn the loser into the Demilitarized Subject of the winner, a special type of subject empire. Demilitarized Subjects cost 1 influence per month and are proteccted by their overlord, BUT can become Stable Demilitarized Subjects after 30 years, giving you 1 influence per month and 15% of their energy/minerals.

For more information, please, read the description.

Nearly perfect. But I think instead of giving you 1 influence per month and 15% resources, they just should kind of "get used to" being demilitarized, thus not costing 1 influence per month and maybe even turning pacifist. If the winner is pacifist itself, you could choose to set them free and form a federation of pacifist nations! Would be very fitting for a pacifist player style! Besides, no one would expect a tributary when looking for a mod called "war demand: demilitarize".. well, I wouldn't.. :)

Edit: well, if i think about it longer... the way you implemented it is also interesting. It's kind of like a tributary, but they pay you for protection. :) I'll give it a try.

PS: thank you for all your effort for making this mod possible!

I don't really see it as a tributary, but as a beneficial longstanding relationship, that, after years and years, gives you some rewards.

Here's an idea: I could give the Stable Demilitarized Subjects a bonus to minerals/energy. That would reflect better a mutually beneficial, longstanding relationship.

About the change of ethos... Maybe Stable Demilitarized Subjects could adopt the pacifist ways of gheir overlord after some years? Say, after 20 years of stability, they could gain a pacifist ethos.

First of all, a minor issue; I think the cost to length ratio of the temporary demilitarization is a little out of tune at the higher end. The cost scheme suggests It should 10-15-20 years, not 10-15-30. Perhaps make it thus~
10 years - 50 warscore
15 years - 75 warscore
20 years - 100 warscore.

Secondly, you have to consider what happens when a player becomes a permanent demilitarized subject. What incentive would I have (other than my ai overlords military protection) for wanting to become a stable demilitarized subject? I certainly would not want to give them my precious little influence, and them gaining an influence treads on protectorate territory, although I could accept the overlord gaining one point not at the expense of the subjects in the absence of a better idea. I could see the subject gaining an energy/mineral buff, but I would be careful about giving it to the overlord. Imagine an overlord having 10 or more stable demilitarized subjects. Even a bonus of 10% per subject would double their income, fueling an already unstoppable military powerhouse to take over the galaxy. If you do give the overlord a bonus, make it based off of the subjects income, like a weaker version of the tributary. (Tributary still has to be a viable choice)

Thirdly, About the change in ethos... I like the idea conceptually, but what ethos would you replace? I would envision something like this... if subject has 1 fanatic and 1 regular ethos, reduce the fanatic ethos to its regular version and they gain regular level pacifist. In the event they have 3 regular level ethos, that means 1 of them must be either militarist or pacifist. If its militarist, replace it with pacifist, if its already pacifist, no change. I also think the subject needs a way to regain their former ethos if they are ever released or if they win a war for independence.

I think the +100 opinion modifier is a bit OP. It seems that +100 opinion pretty much makes them loyal forever so I think you should reduce it to +50.

Not long after you uploaded this mod, which is amazing btw, i suggested something to address the instancy of the Demilitarization debuff. Well, I think that point is still valid but i'll reiterate.


Alleviating the instant debuff:

- stage one: Decommissioning Navy - A grace period administered by the Overlord which gradually reduces Naval Capacity from full to 50%. This demilitarization stage is short and cannot be hurried, and may scale depending on <modifier> and <modifier>. Weakest ships go first.
- stage two: Demilitarize for ## Years - (no change)
- stage three: Stable Demilitarized - (no change)