Europa Universalis IV

Europa Universalis IV

Armies Reworked
pejmany 4 Sep, 2016 @ 12:21pm
infantry setup
infantry bonuses could work in interesting ways if you combine "composition" with terrain situations. Like i mean how tightly packed you are, how much formation you need and how centralized and drilled you are.

E.g. a primitive army is very loosely united, but very easy to recruit. a good shock value but terrible morale. because a loose army is harder to shoot at by a very structured army (in some terrains)& can easily overwhelm one with bad defense, but cant last that long.

i guess i need to define some categories here:

a) structure (or density): the battlefield deployment. think phalanx vs celtic tribesman. firing rows vs spread jungle rifle fire. a well structured battalion can "pierce" but be weak at the flanks if cav dont support it. it can also hit a tightly packed group easier, so a more haphazard infantry deployment means a wider target to aim at, &they can get that shock in. theres also lessened combat width for dense&better flanking for loose infantry. this is the main crux of my suggestion, cuz this also determines success based on terrain.
a less structured army can get around in a mountain or jungle easier, while a denser army will have trouble maintaining composition and footing. so the former gets discipline a penalty and morale penalty while the latter get a morale boost (jungle) or shock boost (mountain). but a denser army will get major bonuses in steppes and hills. this would curb blobs to a degree as well. of course this also depends on regional development but more on this later.

a structured army would have a higher training time than a looser one (formations), but this also ties in to level of westrrnization and access to guns. a newly westernizing nation would have penalties to training time if using denser armies than if using loose, and if they have guns, theres additional penalties on training time.

b) drilling: itd be a way of adjusting discipline at the cost of more cost, more training time. think of it as cohesiveness and unity. a veteran army knows how the other limbs tend to function, and this means better morale (trust) and slightly better discipline. so you can balance a dense, well trained but highly costly army with a loose, quickly raised horde, at least a little. i got a lot i can expand on here but ive written a lot already and dont know if youre interested.

of course, drilling means more manpower usage and higher maintenance. and to send out a well trained army, you need to supply it, leading into

c) logistics: now i know a logistics corp and strategic planning werent really a thing till modern times, but looking at the huge army the persians fielded (or how they tried to intercept alexanders supply route) shows this was a form of it. and besides, armies have to be fed, equipment needs upkeep, yada yada. supply limit is a fantastic way of doing this, and supply range works great. but this should also tie into prosperity and road work and infrastructure and development and yada yada. having scouts to meet with the locals to buy food for examples.

but more logistics means more army reform (tie in to westernization) and more cost, as well as more manpower. thered be attritition, with a denser army suffering more than a looser one, unless sufficient logistics exists. terrain matters once more. with more primitive nations, the further one is from the capital and lower the developement, the lower the supply limit. but combat ability should also be harmed. and since infantry is always the most numerous, theyd be the most affected.i mean, horses eat almost everywhere.

a loose cavalry doesnt really make sense tactically, so that applies to infantry most. drilling levels would have some aeffect on cav and artillery, but ballistics officers definitely werent a thing, so it was more aim and spray.

there could be triggered modifiers for the combinations between the 3 categories, and decisions for choosing the levels. and the terrain based combat modifiers would be generalized rules so its much less work.

im thinking about how to get the a.i. to know how to deal with this. my current leading theory is that the decisions would clearly link to combat traits so that its easier for it to parse it?

sorry for the huge writeup, or if this is in the mod already or in expanded infantry options. i just love jury rigging game mechanics so once i started i just went on for a while.
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CorsarioFantasma 5 Sep, 2016 @ 6:03pm 
Another thing that might be very cool place too, would be for example troops customizer: Adopt armor (breastplate of iron) would increase the resistance of the troops but decrease speed and increase the cost of maintenance, strengthen the command (official by meritocracy) increase fighting ability but increase the cost of maintenance and reduce the manpower and reduce the loyalty permanently nobility as the game period who dominated the official positions would be the nobility and the meritocracy system, etc. examples would thus be very useful for shaping nation as you want and become truly every single nation. One way to do this in AI would be using the basis of the system''' Weight modifiers '' that is used to idea of groups, Spanish troops would focus on using armor while Swedish would strengthen the command and make more agile troops possible (ie take iron breastplates would be impossible).


I believe that to later add all this, it will be necessary to completely eliminate the national ideas involving the military area and balance the idea of ​​groups (especially the Idea Variator please this mod is very good I do not want to see him away from my next saves) and make the improvement of the army completely based customizer army thus no army will become stronger than normal.

Another useful thing would be to eliminate the data or diminish his ability to decide battles, and later add some such sort of events: The captain of the enemy army forgot the deposit of unprotected artillery ammunition and ended exemplodindo penalty: less 5% of combat artillery, and the same could be used to floods and heavy rains in battle that would give heavy penalty in both armies or just for artillery (remember Waterloo, where the ground was wet too much for Napoleon move artillery and depended for some time only infantry and cavalry) and all this would be balanced with the customization army. I believe that these ideas are not difficult to place because they depend on just a game to tinker combat skills, discipline, etc.

Examples for the customizer army could be: Change the clothes, adding breastplates of iron, matchlock and Flintlock, muskets/Arquebus light/medium/heavy, recruitment systems (very important and can be a conscript, prussian Regiment Cantons, the base mercenary soldiers, etc.), etc. and various other ideas, this could be very exploited and with a certain ease (I believe)

Sorry for the long text and a bad English, but had to be long to explain the idea xD

@user12343
Last edited by CorsarioFantasma; 6 Sep, 2016 @ 6:38am
user12343  [developer] 7 Sep, 2016 @ 4:27pm 
@pejmany
Thanks for the comments. I think a lot of that sounds good, but I'm not sure about implementation. There are a very limited range of variables which can be modded.

Essentially it is
Offensive and Defensive Fire and Shock (4 total) [this must apply to everyone at the same value]
Unit Pips (6 total)
Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery combat power (3 total)
siege ability
defensiveness

Things like supply limit per terrain type cannot be specified by culture, technology group etc, it is one size fits all.
I attempt to correct for infantry fire discrepancies by adjusting the value of infantry combat power. This sort of works, but very imperfectly.

In my understanding fire and shock values most closely mimic the technical impact of weapony
Unit pips reflect unit formation and tactical employment

Think about how you implement some of your ideas in this framework and let me know
user12343  [developer] 7 Sep, 2016 @ 4:33pm 
@GAttack
Thanks as well. Similar comment back, I would want to know how to implement.

I think that different arrangements of pips in a given "level" of a unit reflects changes in formation, tactics and possibly armor. I don't know another good way to do this. The choice of one unit type at a given level over another is effectively this concept. Look at the early Western units of Spanish Terrico vs other options.

I think your idea about events influencing battles is definitly more workable. You could get events like you described that give bonuses or penalties which impact combat. Weather could definitly come into play here via events. The game already makes use of snow, but we could do something with rain. Tell me more aobut what your are thinking here, sketch out some different events.

I'm not sure how viable the breastplate, choice of weapon is. Infantry fire applies evenly to all groups a given tech level, so unless we can edit this we are stuck with only indirect modifiers.
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