Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

Pitch Black Dungeon
Pooh 13 Oct, 2019 @ 11:11pm
30 Hours of Playtime with PBD
Really good mod, a lot of work went into this I can tell. I can't use it though. Some of the aspects of it are completely broken. Here's a few I'll take the time to talk about off the top of my head:

Pelagic Guardian with Horror for instance every 2nd fight. Also, clearing 100% of room battles? That means you have to explore every inch of a map unless you get lucky exploring, which I don't seem to get unless I camp and use the scout buffs. Try clearing that on Cove with Medium length - it's literally 15 fights with full enemy rosters. Cove doesn't have Spider squads to break up the relentless onslaught of mid/top range enemies; closest thing would be the Stingers/Snails, but they have 15+ HP each/75% Protection + the mod's affixes, "Oh, it's just a couple snails and some Pelagic jerks... Oh wait, no... He shapeshifted into a Drowned Thrall and blew up my entire squad..." :stress:

Trinkets also have no value. Legendary orange rarity trinket goes for 1,500 gold, but I need 3k gold for food (or more) alone on some of these expeditions, it's pretty nuts. The drop rate on heirlooms seems to behave as in vanilla in some regards, but the trade value is 3:1 for every combination, that heirloom weight differential is removed, but the scaling ratios seem wrong.

Also, what happened to the store? I'm doing a short expedition, but the Caretaker is short changing me on Holy Water, Antivenom, etc. Can't make use of the Warrens good food curios because I'm only *allowed* a single thing of herbs...

I gave the mod 30 hours of playtime and there's A LOT done right, but also a lot of other aspects of the game are far too damaged to endure. I'll follow the mod closely and see how the balancing goes from here if you decide to work on it further, Silvio. :D

Sorry if my criticism seemed harsh, this workshop file is splendid, I think it just has some kinks it needs to iron out. Sorry for the wall of text, it got away from me, LOL. :yawp:

Love from Canada! :8bitheart:
Last edited by Pooh; 13 Oct, 2019 @ 11:12pm
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Showing 1-4 of 4 comments
BigRowdy 13 Oct, 2019 @ 11:40pm 
I love the mod but have to agree with you. 1 freaken antivenom for a medium or long dungeon is just too harsh. 1 holy water, 1 medicinal herb.... plus the added stress and serious lack of funds to keep you guys fighting means you can't use the added potions most of the time. I tweaked some things before and it was enjoyable, doubled gems ans text page worth....however dev added an extra layer of content that I can't find to suit my enjoyment, but the real deal breaker is the guy who made all the compatabillity mods for the additional classes took all his mods down...and you can't use the dlc that I paid for. In the end I would be ecstatic if the dev would give this some love because as you said, so many things are awesome....
Maester Silvio  [developer] 14 Oct, 2019 @ 12:50am 
No criticism is too harsh, if it's productive and objective, so thank you for taking the time to write all of this!

First and foremost there's a lot to unravel here, some of it is just bad luck, some of it is decision by design, and some of it could be helped by some additional knowledge.

  • Pelagic Guardians of Horror - These only spawn in rooms, and will only be seen at a rate of ~10% in Apprentice, ~2% in Veteran, and ~5% in Champion. While I definitely feel the Apprentice rate could be a tad higher than desired, overall it's not nearly the rate perceived.
  • 100% of room battle missions ALL spawn fewer rooms and corridors than the 80-100% explore mission. In fact, these missions make it much easier to manage torchlight due to that fact. I know this fact is never communicated, but it's all behind-the-scenes. The ratio roughly equals out. A long Ruins 80% explore, for instance, will spawn 26 rooms, requiring 21 to be explored. A long Ruins clear mission spawns 21 rooms. Explores tend to spawn more curios and fewer battles though, so it's up to preference.
  • Trinkets, for the most part, are not the main way to make large bundles of money. The main way is by battling minibosses, which each drop a coin worth 3000 gold in Apprentice, and more on higher difficulties. This coin is in addition to rare loot. Another way to make money is by collecting lore, each worth 500 gold each.
  • Heirloom drops are reworked, and pushed heavily into curios. Drop chances vary, but do not function the same as vanilla. Areas themselves contain almost always a single type of heirloom, and certain curios in those areas have a tendency to drop large amounts of them. Minibosses as well have a good chance to drop them. The ratio for trading is the same because the drop rate and need for them is 100% the same. To fully upgrade the town you need 636 of each type of heirloom; no more of one kind, no less.
  • You are allowed fewer of certain provisions as a design decision, but that's for a good reason. The interactions with those items have been buffed, often leading to great reward if used properly. What you have now are, essentially, potions and daggers. These are cheaper options that, with a bit of knowledge, can achieve the exact same results from curios and in battle. These interactions are impossible to communicate perfectly in-game due to modding capabilities, and I definitely know that it's frustrating. I've done what I can though by providing information in the glossary and through lore you can find in-game. I still recommend using the spreadsheet for interactions though, as there are a lot of them.

Finally, I really would love to come back to this and iron things out, but I have a career now with multiple jobs and responsibilities. My free time is limited, and to be honest I just burnt out of modding DD after ~3 years of 8-12 hours of work on the game every day, both for my mod and for the vanilla game. I can't rule out a potential return in the future to clean up some areas that need love, but I can't promise it either. I am truly sorry to the fans who would enjoy a PBD 7.0, but I would need 6-12 months to properly develop it. :/

Seriously, thank you for the criticism; try using some of the tips and info I provided to see if they can help you find some new tactics. If you need any more information, I'll always read and reply to discussions like this. I want people to enjoy it, but I know certain design decisions and modding limitations are frustrating, and in hindsight there is certainly a lot I would change about the mod too. It was my first professional-esque foray into designing, so there were more mistakes than successes I'm afraid.
BigRowdy 14 Oct, 2019 @ 5:15pm 
Originally posted by Maester Silvio:
No criticism is too harsh, if it's productive and objective, so thank you for taking the time to write all of this!

First and foremost there's a lot to unravel here, some of it is just bad luck, some of it is decision by design, and some of it could be helped by some additional knowledge.

  • Pelagic Guardians of Horror - These only spawn in rooms, and will only be seen at a rate of ~10% in Apprentice, ~2% in Veteran, and ~5% in Champion. While I definitely feel the Apprentice rate could be a tad higher than desired, overall it's not nearly the rate perceived.
  • 100% of room battle missions ALL spawn fewer rooms and corridors than the 80-100% explore mission. In fact, these missions make it much easier to manage torchlight due to that fact. I know this fact is never communicated, but it's all behind-the-scenes. The ratio roughly equals out. A long Ruins 80% explore, for instance, will spawn 26 rooms, requiring 21 to be explored. A long Ruins clear mission spawns 21 rooms. Explores tend to spawn more curios and fewer battles though, so it's up to preference.
  • Trinkets, for the most part, are not the main way to make large bundles of money. The main way is by battling minibosses, which each drop a coin worth 3000 gold in Apprentice, and more on higher difficulties. This coin is in addition to rare loot. Another way to make money is by collecting lore, each worth 500 gold each.
  • Heirloom drops are reworked, and pushed heavily into curios. Drop chances vary, but do not function the same as vanilla. Areas themselves contain almost always a single type of heirloom, and certain curios in those areas have a tendency to drop large amounts of them. Minibosses as well have a good chance to drop them. The ratio for trading is the same because the drop rate and need for them is 100% the same. To fully upgrade the town you need 636 of each type of heirloom; no more of one kind, no less.
  • You are allowed fewer of certain provisions as a design decision, but that's for a good reason. The interactions with those items have been buffed, often leading to great reward if used properly. What you have now are, essentially, potions and daggers. These are cheaper options that, with a bit of knowledge, can achieve the exact same results from curios and in battle. These interactions are impossible to communicate perfectly in-game due to modding capabilities, and I definitely know that it's frustrating. I've done what I can though by providing information in the glossary and through lore you can find in-game. I still recommend using the spreadsheet for interactions though, as there are a lot of them.

Finally, I really would love to come back to this and iron things out, but I have a career now with multiple jobs and responsibilities. My free time is limited, and to be honest I just burnt out of modding DD after ~3 years of 8-12 hours of work on the game every day, both for my mod and for the vanilla game. I can't rule out a potential return in the future to clean up some areas that need love, but I can't promise it either. I am truly sorry to the fans who would enjoy a PBD 7.0, but I would need 6-12 months to properly develop it. :/

Seriously, thank you for the criticism; try using some of the tips and info I provided to see if they can help you find some new tactics. If you need any more information, I'll always read and reply to discussions like this. I want people to enjoy it, but I know certain design decisions and modding limitations are frustrating, and in hindsight there is certainly a lot I would change about the mod too. It was my first professional-esque foray into designing, so there were more mistakes than successes I'm afraid.
I completely understand and in truth the mod is great. i still play it when i am feeling masochistic. In the end I LOVE the mod, there are just a few tweaks I make before I play... And this summer I may look into making compatabillity patches for the additional classes on the workshop. It would be slow going as I would have to study each base class and determine the buffs at level 3 and 5? or is it 6. The normal intermediate progressions should be easy enough but the tier levels is what I would have to study. As far as your first delving into designing.. you did fantastic. I will never regret adding the mod, just 1 or 2 things are a rage quit frustration here and there.
Maester Silvio  [developer] 15 Oct, 2019 @ 12:10am 
I totally understand, and I encourage people to tweak it to their liking! If you do make compatibility mods, I will help you as much as I can with any resource or information that you need; just let me know!
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