Total War: WARHAMMER

Total War: WARHAMMER

Autonomous Bretonnian Dukedoms + PCBSO
Theobald 6 Apr, 2017 @ 3:46am
Brainstorming
About Imperial Provinces

I've been tinkering to separate city-states from their provinces, but this has a little problem with Tabalecland, because Kemperbad being a Reiklander city, there's nothing left to emulate this very province rural land... Same for Stirland and Hochland (see below). So I'm working on a game concept about this that I'll explain later.

For the great picture, I planned to use this with a handful of horde-and-spawns-friendly mods (already existing) to help the beastmen and lone greenskin factions a lot (they can fare well by raiding, and respawn often). Another important point is that a lot of the "big" settlements start with useful/lore-meaningful buildings (no millenial cities building their first well here) but also walls, but not including all the remaining minors, so there is still dynamic around them, and factions aren't wiped right from the second turn either.


WIP layout (see the "Rural and Urban" point for the explanation for the "+x" slots), working on a 8 slots capital base :

-Altdorf solo, 12 slots, owned by Reikland faction, unique dwarf quarter building, unique Imperial Menagerie building
-Reikland, capital Grünburg (pasture) + Kemperbad (+wine), owned by Reikland faction
-Reikwald, capital Eilhart, + Helmgart. Separatists become a more interesting faction. Forestry +x slots.
-Talabecland - just a 10+2 (or more) slots Talabheim (forestry +x slots), province renamed Great Forest.
-Nuln separated, 10+2 slots, owned by Wissenland faction
-Wissenland - capital Wissenburg, owned by Wissenland faction
-New province: Sudenland (Capital Pfleidorf), owned by Wissenland on start, specific rebellions to Solland (new) faction when low public order
-Marienburg, solo, 12 slots because "largest city in the Old World", unique (indestructible?) money and dwarf quarter buildings
-New province The Wasteland, capital Gossel, 8, 6+2 or 8+2 slots, owned by Marienburg faction, unique rebellion to Westerland new faction
-Averland some +x slots, otherwise untouched
-Ostermark: capital Bechafen (+timber). Unique dwarf sawmill. + new city: Mordheim (replacing Essen, which is a village). (+Wyrdstone, permanent wyrdstone slots and ruins slot that does corruptions, but also a lot of riches - enough to compensate the bad start with only one real settlement). Owned by Ostermark.
-Ostland lots of +x slots, solo Castle von Rauken, mainly agricultural (oxen, as in heraldry), unique buildings about firepower and ogres (when they come)
-New province Forest of Shadows, capital Wolfenburg, + Norden, forestry +x slots, owned by Ostland faction
-Hochland, capital Hergig (solo - same problem as Talabecland) lots of forestry +x slots, unique building about long rifles.
-New province Middle Mountains, capital Brass Keep, moved to mountain hold (infested by greenskins, can be rebelled/resurrected to dwarfs, can also be chaos conquered as in lore because i use the norsca conquer mod) - intended to spice stuff up in the middle of the Empire even more.
-Nordland is solo Salzenmund.
-New province Laurelorn Forest, with (there's a catch) Dietershafen as capital. Forestry +x slots. Rhya unique. Big port but a money powerhouse (navy base). This province is meant to be a hostile one, with a perma-raid from a wood elves immovable respawning army, to emulate the frictions there and the fact this forest isn't *actually* in imperial reach. Owned by Nordland.
- Stirland is solo Wurtbad. Lore-side it's poor and amputated of Sylvania anyway. Maybe loaded with +x slots (and less normal slots).
- New province: Mootland. Solo The Moot. Money maker. +x slots (+wine + pasture), maybe even no normal slots. Owned by Stirland. Uniques about halflings ?
- Middenland solo Middenheim.
- New province: Drakwald. Capital Carroburg + Weismund. Forestry +x slots. Owned by Middenland faction.
Last edited by Theobald; 6 Apr, 2017 @ 4:32am
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Showing 1-3 of 3 comments
Theobald 6 Apr, 2017 @ 4:05am 
About Rural vs Urban Slots

So, there's this new kind of equilibrium around better starting cities, more splintered provinces, and a better fields-and-wildlands gameplay. This can be kind of balanced with a greater base bonus in raiding, but it's kind of bland too, and now there are big pieces of lands even less acutely represented by a settlement, so there's a proposition:
Some of the (added) slots, instead of being town buildings, are like the resources ones, rural infrastructures - expanded versions of the farm chains and with similar benefits.
They have some mechanics unique to them: they INCREASE the raiding of enemy armies, and can get damaged by raiding. They represent everything that is not behind the walls, villages, fields, etc... Some regions more rural than others have more of this slots (Stirland...)and they play more around them.
In the ideal form, they woudl be like ports - their slots are reserved.

Fun part also is you can have different approaches to the bandits problem: lure them out and/or shuffle the forest to find them, stay behind your walls and make more money and public orders buildings to wait it out, ....



Some optional rules :

1- Urban buildings give also enemy raiding bonuses (from land piracy) but also *sacking and looting* bonuses - remember the leftover minor settlements ? They just got even juicier to have and to sack, reapplying the vanilla feel of choosing how to specialize them, between support, money and defence in a part of the game.


2- One I was working toward for human factions: Food comeback (remember, Attila's game engine). So now you have to play with the rural part of the game to grow madly your huge city-states. Balances the whole stuff. (Actually i wanted to give food to hordes too, with the Tanukhids mechanic, but that's another story).
Zorander  [developer] 6 Apr, 2017 @ 2:03pm 
Hi Theobald and thanks a lot for sharing your creative ideas.

Originally posted by Theobald:
I wanted to separate Karaz' to (to an Everpeak province) but the actual Silver Road becomes really lacking in lore importance. And Karazers *would be* pissed by greenskins desecrating the Pillars so... May be pertinent to let them be.
Yes, while making Karaz-a-Karak big and independent is easy, doing so turns the other two minor settlements into a pretty bad two-settlement-province. A solution could be to turn them into cities, but the lore really does not justifiy that.

Originally posted by Theobald:
About Marienburg: Definitely. With money buildings at the game start.
Giving Marienburg a stronger economy from campaign start on can cause problems for Louen Leoncoeur's starting position. During my test campaign with Louen on VH, Marienburg managed to overrun me with three full stacks until I rushed the city of Marienburg itself.
Maybe changing Marienburg's AI personality to a more defensive one could be a better solution. Don't know how they are in lore.

Originally posted by Theobald:
A split K8P (to make combat for the very hold and its hinterlands a separate stuff and more interesting happenings down there)
It could look weird to separate K8P from its province and let Karaz-a-Karak stay in its original province. Someone suggested moving it to another neighbouring province and upgrading one of the minor orc settlements to a province capital. This would apparently be lore-friendly. Can't remember exactly.

Originally posted by Theobald:
I do have a question though - can MORE than 12 slots be given ? I've seen something about 20 slots Welves capitals.
Yes, more than 12 are possible. I don't know where the limit is. But four-settlement-provinces can cause visual bugs when their capital gains too many slots as far as I know. Settlements can also run out of constructable buildings, so their additional slots become useless.

Originally posted by Theobald:
Another important point is that a lot of the "big" settlements start with useful/lore-meaningful buildings
Yes, definitely. I think every Empire city-state should at least start with T1 barracks and stables. Maaaaybe a blacksmith. This may also help the AI with construction planning.
I already used this to help out Mousillon a little.

Originally posted by Theobald:
new city: Mordheim (replacing Essen, which is a village)
This is also something I have thought about: replacing less interesting settlements with more interesting ones. Though they would need to be in close proximity to each other in lore.

Originally posted by Theobald:
New province Middle Mountains, capital Brass Keep, moved to mountain hold (infested by greenskins, can be rebelled/resurrected to dwarfs, can also be chaos conquered as in lore because i use the norsca conquer mod) - intended to spice stuff up in the middle of the Empire even more.
Making Brass Keep capturable by Humans, Dwarfs, Vampire Counts, Greenskins and Chaos would need the introduction of another racial settlement type I think. It's original culture is set to 'Human' and I won't change the 'Human' settlements to be conquerable by everyone, so Brass Keep would need its own unique one.


Originally posted by Theobald:
Stirland is solo Wurtbad. Lore-side it's poor and amputated of Sylvania anyway. Maybe loaded with +x slots (and less normal slots).
Stirland gets steamrolled by the Von Carstein's or Sylvania really often nowadays. Or they get confederated into one of the other Empire factions.
While I like to give factions the possibility to stay alive longer, there's just nothing in lore that justifies Stirland successfully defending against real undead armies.
Mootland also won't last long. Rural slots would indeed be quite nice here.

Originally posted by Theobald:
New province: Drakwald. Capital Carroburg + Weismund. Forestry +x slots. Owned by Middenland faction.
Drakwald would then be bigger than Middenland, this could look weird on the campaign map. If there only was a way to have province borders overlap, so that Drakwald could be within Middenland.

Originally posted by Theobald:
About Rural vs Urban Slots
Differentiating between slots is a good idea. I will have to look into this and see if it's actually possible, but it should be. I think port slots can be duplicated and remodeled accordingly.

Originally posted by Theobald:
They have some mechanics unique to them: they INCREASE the raiding of enemy armies, and can get damaged by raiding
Increasing the raiding income of local enemies should be possible. Damaging buildings without attacking the actual settlement doesn't work I think. Well, it could be scripted, because there are events in the campaign which damage settlement buildings. But that's something for another day.

The biggest problem for me is always maintaining a nice balance, because almost all mods on the workshop are designed to be played with the original campaign map in mind.
Last edited by Zorander; 6 Apr, 2017 @ 2:08pm
Theobald 7 Apr, 2017 @ 12:51am 
Giving Marienburg a stronger economy from campaign start on can cause problems for Louen Leoncoeur's starting position. During my test campaign with Louen on VH, Marienburg managed to overrun me with three full stacks until I rushed the city of Marienburg itself.
Maybe changing Marienburg's AI personality to a more defensive one could be a better solution. Don't know how they are in lore.

Louen would have a second major to compensate, but additionally modifying Marienburg would make sense - it's a mix of Switzerland, Netherlands and Venice, so having everything they can at home to defend is kinda lore - their empire is entirely based on a sole metropolis.


new city: Mordheim (replacing Essen, which is a village)
This is also something I have thought about: replacing less interesting settlements with more interesting ones. Though they would need to be in close proximity to each other in lore.

Of course, I aimed for those proximities. It's made easier by the facts that the maps changed a lot along the editions and that a lot of named (important) locations are not exactly pointed on th emap - Mordheim for example is just said to be in the Deadwood, near the south border of Ostermark.

Making Brass Keep capturable by Humans, Dwarfs, Vampire Counts, Greenskins and Chaos would need the introduction of another racial settlement type I think. It's original culture is set to 'Human' and I won't change the 'Human' settlements to be conquerable by everyone, so Brass Keep would need its own unique one.
Or you can just make it a Norsca settlement. There's a mod that would further help that makes norsca settlements colonizable by dwarfs and greenskins. No need to make it conquerable by humans and vampires, this way it makes things funnier in the middle empire.

Stirland gets steamrolled by the Von Carstein's or Sylvania really often nowadays. Or they get confederated into one of the other Empire factions.
While I like to give factions the possibility to stay alive longer, there's just nothing in lore that justifies Stirland successfully defending against real undead armies.
Mootland also won't last long. Rural slots would indeed be quite nice here.
Think the same.
To be honest i'm not especially eager to make fully playable and balanced the "Hufflepuff provinces" of the Empire that don't have interesting characters or rules, like Stirland, Ostermark, Hochland, Averland, Nordland, Ostland and Talabecland.
That leaves Middenland, Reikland, Wissenland, and Marienburg as majors.

In the case of funny/emblematic "common" characters (like Averland's Mad Count) they can be obtained by confederating anyway.


Drakwald would then be bigger than Middenland, this could look weird on the campaign map. If there only was a way to have province borders overlap, so that Drakwald could be within Middenland.
We could go with Weismund in Middenland (even if it makes yet another portion of the forest into another province - there's already parts in Wasteland and Nordland).

For the project, I have plans for all the funny landmarks of the map (like the spiderwebs, or the tumuli, or this dragon cave) and just wanted to seed them into the "right" province as much as possible.

Middenheim would also be easily worth a little two regions province with no special rules.


About Rural vs Urban Slots
Differentiating between slots is a good idea. I will have to look into this and see if it's actually possible, but it should be. I think port slots can be duplicated and remodeled accordingly.
Keep me informed ^^

Increasing the raiding income of local enemies should be possible. Damaging buildings without attacking the actual settlement doesn't work I think. Well, it could be scripted, because there are events in the campaign which damage settlement buildings. But that's something for another day.
The second part is not absolutely to be anyway.
I sort of remember this happening in a past Total War, but that's very fuzzy in my mind.

The biggest problem for me is always maintaining a nice balance, because almost all mods on the workshop are designed to be played with the original campaign map in mind.
Of course. The changes I had in mind makes the sedentary factions in somewhat the same balance. It's a different thing for the hordes though (but they already get help from existing mods, and that's because they are not really balanced right now).
To be honest I have plans for them.

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