Stellaris

Stellaris

Novio Magnum 3
Yandersen 12 Apr, 2017 @ 6:45am
MOD suggestions & feedback
Great MOD! I like it even more than famous NSC, actually - this one feels kinda more elegant, at least in early game. Well done, ty!

But after giving the MOD some extensive testing I mentioned some bugs, accumulated couple second thoughts and come up with a few suggestions. So here it comes...

1) In vanilla version Droids differ from Robots only by a smaller penalty to resource output, while technically staying the same inefficient except for mineral production. I suggest to tweak it - let Droids get a +10% benefit to energy output (benefit instead of a penalty). Kinda forms a logical progression: Robots r good for minerals, Droids - for minerals and energy, Synth - for everything. Each upgrade gives benefit, fair enough, IMO.

2) In vanilla, the planet capital buildings provide adjacency effect benefit for Food, Mineral and Energy, but not to research. I suggest to tweak it, so the capital provide +1 adjacency for ALL types of resources - Food, Energy, Minerals, Physics, Society and Engineering. This will remove the headache of determining a place for Capital on newly colonized planets with multiple scattered research tiles. Pedantic players will love it, I assure u. :)

3) BUG: the auto-upgrade edict does not upgrade Heritage site building.
And Science lab too, which is understandable, since it has branched upgrade path. However, not sure if possible, but very much desired to make it auto-upgrade the Science Lab to the type providing benefit to research with lowest current income per month. OR simply introduce a 4th upgrade branch - "Science Institute" providing equal amount of Ph&S&E to become a default option for the upgrade.

4) Since more building upgrades introduced in this MOD, the amount of micromanagement (which was terribly high even before) become overwhelming. The auto-upgrade option is a must! But the way it is currently introduced does not help a lot. I suggest moving it from the planet policy toward the empire-wide edict, so all the buildings will auto-upgrade while this edict is active. Let it has no cost, but provide no benefits - let it just do the background clicking for the busy player and that is all.
Oh, and don't forget the auto-upgrade of spaceports. However, this may need to be a different edict.

5) A questionable suggestion - maybe let each upgrade of the capital increase the core sector systems capacity by 1?..

6) Never used Afterburners seeing no much benefit from slightly increased combat speed. I suggest changing them to add evasion benefit as well. How about that?

7) U made armor provide hull points - excellent idea! But why the increase is so negligible? See, if I decide whether I want to add an extra shield or an extra armor, I look at the amount of hit points it provides. Comparing the shield and armor of the same tier the answer is completely obvious (on top of that, shields regenerate also). So I suggest the following:
make the armor component provide the amount of hull points equal to the half of the amount the shield component of the equivalent tier provides. So if a small Deflector gives +20 to shields, let the Nanocomposite Armor give +10 hull points.

8) BUG: in my game I used the warp drive, but the trade fleet ships I checked were flying on hyperspace drive. What is the point to configure them in the designer then? I suggest remove the design from the designer - it is cluttered already anyway, let the trade fleet use whichever components they want unless player builds them manually, which is not the case. Awesome addition, BTW, love those traders sneaking around. :)

9) Those "Ancient" technologies... OMG, honestly. First off, the name - "Ancient". How can something newly researched be ANCIENT? It is not OLD! And it is not even a reverse-engineered tech of some Fallen Empire player beats, which would make sense this way. At least rename it to, let's say, "Ultimate", for God's sake... But honestly, so many additional upgrades do not add any juice to the game. The neverending clicking for +10% more of smg is rather annoying. If it would be just 1 more tier, unlockable by some special event, then it will be interesting. But in the current state - just a boring micromanagement.

10) BUG: many ship's and military station's sections (those which include Hangar slots) are bugged: the weapon configuration of the CHOSEN section does not always correspond to what was DECLARED on selection. I mean, when I try to select a section with 5H slots I get a section with 2H and 3L weapon slots instead - or smg like that. Here are few examples:
Dreadnought, 1st section;
Carrier, 3rd section;
Titan, 1st, 3rd and 4th sections;
Most military stations...
Please fix it, otherwise it is not possible to equip a ship with a lot of H slots utilizing a true Carrier potential.

11) Funny thing: u write number 8 as "IIX", while the correct way is "VIII". Understandable, but well, heh. :)

12) Military stations are built too fast. Comparing the time it takes to build a Titan and Citadel and the difference in military power they have... I would say, slow it down, because currently it is just broken. :P

13) I like the idea of Carriers being a support ships providing aura, but their behavior is completely wrong. First off, ALL of the ship types in ur MOD charge at enemy and orbit around target at small range, no matter which combat computer is equipped. This is wrong - the role of the Carriers is to sit at the very back providing the aura and let the strike craft do the job. Those ships should only equip PD, Flaks (M slots) and Hangars. Plus an X-size weapon, maybe. They should exhibit a Vanilla's Battleship combat behavior, stopping at max range right after the engagement, sending strike craft ahead.

14) X-weapons become useless with the current charge&orbit behavior because they have a small angle to fire, and when orbiting starts, enemy is at the side, unreachable to the X weapon. Not sure if the same applies to Torpedoes, but maybe. The thing is that there are no "stay at range" combat computer option for the artillery-designed ships, and that removes range advantage tactic.
See, in vanilla version my tactic was to spam a few dozen of Battleships with Arc Emitters - this way the enemy fleet was annihilated before they could reach their fire range. So if both fleets were equal power, mine had just a few ships lost - those single ones going ahead for some strange reason.
I kinda understand what made u change to charge&orbit behavior for ALL ships, but it is inefficient and very bad, especially in a war with Unbidden, where range 60 is lethal. The defensive combat computers are NEEDED.
For the carrier ships, we need a stay_at_max_range behavior. Those ships should stop once engaged and do not get close at any case, since strike craft deployed at any range once engagement happened.
For the X-weapon equipped snipers we need a stay_at_110_range artillery behavior.
For the rest of the ships (and AI-controlled ships) the charge&orbit_at_20_range is fine.

My vision of the combat is that we have a huge flagman ship ahead, charging at enemy and tanking all the damage for the duration of the battle (but not dealing much damage), then we have few carriers behind, equipped with Strike-Craft and PD only, and the majority of the fleet consists of smaller glass-cannon ships sitting behind the flagman shooting enemies from the safe range, dealing most of the damage. Whichever side finishes the enemy's capital ship first will probably win since the rest of the ships pop like bugs.
I see this mod has a potential to introduce REALLY BIG ships thanks to the Reactor core component individual to each design, which kinda hides half of the ship's utility slots implicitly filling them with reactor components. True thing, the ship size limitation comes from the fact that bigger ships mean more sections with more slots to fill, half of which are reactors anyway. So reactor core is a very smart workaround. But this will only give room to double the ship size. To go beyond that, something different is needed. If it is not possible to introduce a new utility slot sizes bigger than Large, I suggest to rescale the slot components, so 1 medium becomes functionally equal to 8 small and 1 Large - to 64 small (or 8 medium): 1L=8M=64S. What do u think?
Last edited by Yandersen; 13 Apr, 2017 @ 9:13am
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
ScepraX  [developer] 13 Apr, 2017 @ 12:00pm 
Nice idea to start a discussion!

1) I haven't even taken a look at the robots yet. Might be interesting.

2) I think this is a really good idea.

3) I'll fix this as soon as possible. Also adding a random picker for the science labs.

4) Auto-upgrading spaceports is impossible as far as I know. Making it an empire wide edict totally removes the need to micro manage your planets in the late game, which might be preferable. I'll see if I can find a way to make that work.

5) Sounds like it would make several Vanilla technologies that also do this completely useless.

6) Sounds like a good idea.

7) Because there are now 10 armor tiers I've based the hull point increase on the effect the maximum tier has on Titan and Citadels. I've tested several configuration but adding to much health caused balancing issues. Especially when combined with the improved regenerative tissue. Shield damage it also not mitigated by armor while that of health is. When 90% of the damage on health is ignored the equivalent amount hp on a shield to negate the same amount of damage would need to be 10 times as much. So any health added has a big impact. I did have much more health bonuses at first and was staring at my screen as it took forever for the fleets to even kill one ship of their enemies. After that went on for a couple of minutes, while it was great to watch it also was out of place. The health regeneration combined with armor on the large ships was way better than the damage that was dealt.
That said it might be that the shields are too powerful right now.

8) The reason for this is that the trading country doesn't manage wormhole stations. I'll remove them from the ship designer as I've already doubted a lot if this had any added value.

9) Very true. I just needed a name addition that was neutral and sounded good when combined with words like "Improved" and "Advanced" while taking up as less space as possible. Also the colors of the components came out looking old, so I found it weird to call them "Novio" components. Or maybe I should have done that?
Also, I made this mod with the intention of playing very long games and in the past I always lost some of my motivation if there was nothing of interest left to research. You also loose key gameplay points like updating ships and stations at that point. So I like the fact that it keeps on going seemingly forever.

10) This is a bug in the game which every mod that adds section templates that contain both large and hangar slots encounters. It's not possible to change. That's why the names of those sections contain the amount of hangar bays in them. It's only when choosing the sections and a visual bug; it has no effect on the actual slots you get.

11) Might fix this in the future. But honestly I thought that the rule was that it should always contain as little characters as possible and "IIX" has less characters than "VIII". Though I think you're right, when I found that out I already incorporated an image of "IIX" in many files, which would take a lot of time to change.

12) Never thought about this. I'll see if I can implement this.
Update: I've tried several ways to do this but Paradox currently seems to have the functionality that does this for frontier outposts in their binary code with only one define to edit. Several other methods to try to do this failed.

13) I've tested a lot of different setups for this but I was always disappointed by the mix of combat behaviors. I also think that a real spaceship or naval vessel will never stop as it would become an easy target. In a real fleet the rest of the ships are meant to protect the carrier but this is hard to implement. Also, when some ships keep their distance the rest has trouble going around them for some reason.

14) Extra large weapons from this mod will fire at all angles because they would be useless on stations otherwise. So they should work even when orbiting their target.

I agree that strategy in combat is kind of absent right now. I also would like to make this better. On the other hand you can build corvettes insanely cheap and fast by have 5 assembly yards at one spaceport.

Components slots are annoying thus far. Any changes made to them seem to fail. I'd have to redesign a lot of screens to accomplish having visually smaller slots. Might not be impossible though.
Last edited by ScepraX; 13 Apr, 2017 @ 2:46pm
Yandersen 15 Apr, 2017 @ 4:55am 
I think I know how to make room for more weapon slot sizes! I think 3 more tiers are possible to get without doing too much disturbance to the game.
1) Add large turret model to the extra large weapons, remove fire arc and min distance - then we got tier 4 weapon slot named "X".
2) Make PD turrets go into regular small slot - this way we have "P"-slot available to retrofit into the tier 5 weapon slot.
3) Make torpedoes go into the regular medium slot - this way we have "T"-slot available for tier 6 weapons.
Yandersen 16 Apr, 2017 @ 2:35pm 
I see, ScepraX, u indeed included some of my small suggestions in ur mod, great! If u like small changes, I may also suggest...
4) some change to auto-exploration: BEFORE researching the technology make the auto-explore option available if the science officer is level 3 or higher; once the tech researched - available always, even if there is no science officer on board ("Automated research protocols" it is called, so...).
5) Change the number of tiles on starting planets to be 25 instead of 16, so there will be no need to move capital from the historical origin of your species in order to pursue financial profit of having capital production bonuses on larger planet. This is always a heart-breaking move, isn't it?
ScepraX  [developer] 16 Apr, 2017 @ 3:18pm 
1-3) The amount of work required to achieve this is too much for me at the moment.

4) Love the idea but having a science officer onboard is hardcoded I think. You would have seen lots of mods doing this if it wasn't. And the idea of having the option available before research is finished is also hardcoded.

5) I've done this in the past a couple of times and I was always disappointed at the amount of files I had to overwrite to accomplish this. I think I might actually have thought up an alternative approach just now, so I'm going to try that out.
Yandersen 26 Apr, 2017 @ 3:47am 
Wow, ScepraX, u r doing amazing with ur mod - it is the best of all! Keep it up!
Yandersen 2 May, 2017 @ 10:45am 
ScepraX, do u know if it is it possible to introduce AOE weapons? Maybe u tried that already? I mean, there is a Minefield Aura in the game already, right? Is it possible to add this effect to a ship? Will the aura field move along with it or it can be applied to the static objects only - like Fortresses? Because if it is possible to add such kind of aura to the moving ship, it can effectively become an AOE weapon to bring an answer to ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ doomstacking everybody is sick of. IMHO, the graphics effect should be different though - I would rather like to see electricity sparks or smg like that (dreaming of EMI / Psi-storm / Chaos Generator weapon e.t.c.). What do u think?
Last edited by Yandersen; 3 May, 2017 @ 1:47am
ScepraX  [developer] 2 May, 2017 @ 11:03am 
I think it's certainly an interesting idea. Auras though don't allow stacking, so that's a big issue.
Yandersen 2 May, 2017 @ 4:15pm 
But it is perfectly fine! Just make the effect considerably stronger than that of a minefield and decrease the radius. Also, ships equipped with such AOE weapon must exhibit swarming behavior (combat computers must be set to "melee" range).

BTW, thinking deeper... Is it possible to somehow simulate a debris damage from ship detonations? Another solution to doomstacking - when a ship got blown up all friendly ships around it receive some damage. If it is possible, then it will certainly put an end to doomstacking - the more ships in a fleet the larger the damage if any of them blows up. Maybe it is possible to somehow implement it as an event temporarily applying a sort of minefield aura on friendly ships? Or, other way - add a hidden friendly aura component with negative hull regeneration effect to all ships and toggle aura on just before ship dies? Somehow?.. Idk... :)
Yandersen 11 May, 2017 @ 10:54am 
ScepraX, I just finished my Ships Reworked mod. Maybe u will be interested to see how I implemented large ship classes (the utility slots rebalance and new weapon slot types). I do not mind if u decide to grab some files and merge it with ur mod if u wish to do so.
Last edited by Yandersen; 11 May, 2017 @ 10:55am
ScepraX  [developer] 11 May, 2017 @ 11:31am 
Cool, looks interesting. I especially like the idea of having shields respawn more and have less hitpoints. And of course the dedicated carrier. Though in my opinion having such a big difference between slot sizes will make the ships less balanced. Though I do recognise the advantages it gives concerning section templates. Nice work!
Yandersen 12 May, 2017 @ 3:58am 
Thanks! :)
The carrier task was not a goal in first place, actually, neither was a 4-section design. I just realized that a tier-8 ship needs a 4th new slot size for a weapon, but I can get 3 only. To compensate the lack of guns I had to use more sections with tier-1 and tier-2 guns only and spam some extra carrier slots since those are free to add in any number. I doubt Battlestar is the most efficient carrier type (counting it as SC slots per NavCap of the ship), but making a reference to Battlestar Galactica certainly gives it a credit, right? :)
BTW, speaking of strike crafts. I figured out that SC slots can not be used in combination with large weapon slots in the same section - that is the cause for the bugs grouping SC and weapons in the same L category. Just to let u know.

ScepraX, may I ask u for a small favor? Remember those alternative color icons for combat computers u made? Can u make a "red" version of precognitive interface icon like u did the blue version of sentient combat computer? The source image of precog interface is located in gfx\interface\icons\ship_parts\ship_part_computer_pregoc.dds. Can u make a red version of it for me pleeeease? :D
Last edited by Yandersen; 13 May, 2017 @ 12:57am
Akkadian 18 May, 2017 @ 3:29pm 
Hi,

Great mod, I like many of the changes and balances of the game. I encountered a few bugs:

1- Fronier outpost influence upkeep is becoming 0.10 influence instead of 1.

2- I can't find the option to build Citadels. the biggest I have is fortress.
ScepraX  [developer] 19 May, 2017 @ 12:11am 
Thanks for the feedback.
1. Is a feature since the start of this mod.
2. The Citadel should become available once tier 4 research starts. The chance you get the Citadel as research option is also increased greatly when the Carrier has been unlocked. I'll check to see if it's bugged somehow.
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