Originally posted by A F2P With Hats {Studying}:

Why not the sapper against robots be like the razorback? Like, one time use... but the downsides of going back to resupply!

erm...

Originally posted by ๖ۣۜЯɪᴄʜᴛᴏғεη:

Originally posted by Astronaut Soldier + Hammy:

Well, Heres how I would do it. The spy looses his sapper permanently and there can only be 1 spy on the team.

permanent sapper loss is basically making the spy less valuable than sapping a robot. because when you say "PERMANENTLY" it could either mean until death or for the REST of the game. either way, it's technically unbalanced.
and a single spy? what? that is LUDICROUS. why have only one spy just to "fit" this feature?

Originally posted by ๖ۣۜЯɪᴄʜᴛᴏғεη:

Originally posted by Astronaut Soldier + Hammy:

I thought it would make it more balanced :(

well, first off, a temporary sapper loss makes sense, not a permanent one, because then how will you sap engineer buildings if you plan to and there are buildings present?
secondly, one spy means that the spy will undergo a bit of stress sometimes; having to do all of the secret work all by himself with no other spies being present. talking about one spy only, in normal payload, this would mean that RED may only have one spy, and that the other team may have up the normal maximum allowed, whereas payload race would only allow one spy on both teams, meaning that minimal awareness is required. (still gotta be aware of your surroundings but you don't have to worry too much about a spy lurking around you.)

did you refer to these comments?

Originally posted by Bearsy:

Oh no thats not it. Fighting the giant is so much more fun than fighting tha tank. And if the giant can't deploy while being shot at than neither should the tank.

I don't care. it allows for easy destruction of the tank and thus allows for a possibility for an easy win if they are well defended and the giant does not have much firepower to offer.
it's simply just an unbalancing feature. the tank and the giant have their own battle-centric moments. they are both fun (or should be). they both have their own silimar goals.
plus, I've never seen a scenario where a giant can't deploy the bomb while taking damage.

Originally posted by Loreknight:

I had an idea that the tanks and giant robots could drop cash from the actual mvm mode, where the players could use to buy upgrades at the spawn, but only certain upgrades and at increased prices to make it still fair. also the use of bots using the stats of the mvm robots would be cool. maybe a version of ctf where the robots have no intel to defend, but work on a time limit to try to attack red team and take the intel. Although they will have specific presets made for them with certain stats such as being the fist of steel heavy (has the fists ofs teel and 900 health and in mvm has 1.4 size) one other cool thing would be somehow using the boss robots from two cities and stuff like that? maybe a vs hale but with the giant bosses...

oh, come on. for one thing; no cash. STT is only trying to retain most of payload gameplay but add a tank (or two tanks) and some robot touch to it, because tanks work on payload paths somewhat without the mod. adding cash is like trying to turn this into a lite version of uberupgrades MVM. and no special robots, please. it's literally a joke as you can pretty much have an entire team be special robots at the start of the game in order to instantly win. also, why even bother add a CTF mode? it's all about payload and payload race, not CTF. if it was CTF, then there's no tank involved; it just becomes RBvBB (a mode being worked on by one of my friends) only that RED are humans. a VS hale mode also won't help as there is also no tank involved meaning it's just a deathmatch against one extremely strong enemy.

Originally posted by Cmd. Soufflé:

Good idea, but I would remove the killing part.

then there would be pretty much no point into sapping a robot.
all it would do is make a single target helpless. that's all.

Originally posted by Private Pugsly:

Originally posted by Marsh Raptor #4321:

Well, Heres how I would do it. The spy looses his sapper permanently and there can only be 1 spy on the team.

There should be a spy bot that does it

uh, you do know I've just explained how unfair this sapping feature could be?

Originally posted by Astronaut Soldier + Hammy:

yeah.. I guess that was a stupid suggestion.

well, that cured about a few minutes worth of boredom. now you know.

Originally posted by Astronaut Soldier + Hammy:

hmmmm Maybe it just moves and can do anything but it will still die in 10 seconds and at the last 3 seconds is when the stunning takes place.

nice try. I do see where you are going but then this makes using a sapper against a robot near-useless. plus, whenever a robot gets sapped, this way, they can just (hopefully) retreat to an engineer for repair and go back to play. I would just backstab than use a sapper.
I don't like the concept of sapping a robot anyway. just keep it as how it is; no robot sapping.
plus, it would also be really annoying since - again - you can be sapped out of nowhere.

Originally posted by ุ:

hmm. Maybe the robot will run in the stunned/scared positions and after 10 seconds it will explode IF its not a giant bot or a sentry buster.

now it can (slowly) move, but now it can't do anything to protect itself.
also what you are saying means that the sapper can somehow also magically apply slowdown and weapon stripping effects to giants and sentry busters? please, this is just getting more unbalanced as we go along.

Originally posted by Astronaut Soldier + Hammy:

ok, Maybe 2 spys and a 1 minute sapper cooldown.

makes more sense, but now we have another problem; is it really worth it?
now, I do understand that you can't really get a backstab that easily, so I see why you have the idea of adding a sapping feature... but... there are some unbalanced issues.
you can literally get sapped whenever time pleases. doesn't matter if the spy is disguised, you'll be rendered pretty vulnerable especially that the fact that engineers are usually a little bit more defensive. robots that are sapped are otherwise open to the wild for a free kill, and a ten-second time limit until death is... reasonable, but restricting to melee only basically makes the player extremely vulnerable. sure, I understand that he can fend off people that get too close but I'd assume most of the time people will just keep a fair distance away so that they can't reach them with the melee, considering the fact that the sapping effect renders the robot unable to move.

Originally posted by Astronaut Soldier + Hammy:

I thought it would make it more balanced :(

well, first off, a temporary sapper loss makes sense, not a permanent one, because then how will you sap engineer buildings if you plan to and there are buildings present?
secondly, one spy means that the spy will undergo a bit of stress sometimes; having to do all of the secret work all by himself with no other spies being present. talking about one spy only, in normal payload, this would mean that RED may only have one spy, and that the other team may have up the normal maximum allowed, whereas payload race would only allow one spy on both teams, meaning that minimal awareness is required. (still gotta be aware of your surroundings but you don't have to worry too much about a spy lurking around you.)