https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1642042464738038817/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/864947149137766096/?tscn=1562478528

https://beebom.com/hamachi-alternatives/

http://torchmodders.com/forums/tips-tools/fixing-the-strict-nat-issue-in-multiplayer/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1642041106373661293/

= = =
= = =

steffire3:
Inside the Options section while game is paused or when the upper right corner button is selected.
For example my 0-9 is instead 1,2,3,q,w,e,d,f,c,v and movement / swaps are a,s,z,x with potions on b,n that enables my left hand to reach all the important combat functions.

Giorno Giovanna:
I'm right-handed That's why it's complicated for me.

steffire3:
I'm thinking the right handed version of that would be: -,0,9,[,p,o,l,k,<,m then swaps are :,",>,? then potions on n,b. That is the exact mirror of the above config. Move any Inventory keys over to the left side in this case.

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

A Torchlight 2 class is defined as

• Base stats (starting strenght, dexterity, etc..)
  
• Available skills
  
• Appearance

In Torchlight 2, 1 class = 1 character. You can't imagine the Berzerker with big muscles playing Mage. Nor can you imagine the Embermage being feral and use claws. It does not really fit together.

I think the RPG aspect is not the crucial point of Torchlight 2. If you're looking for a proper RPG and highly customizable experience, there are other games for that (such as The Elder Scrolls series for example).

How do mods like Synergies/Far East prove your point ? You cited them but you didn't give any explanation #1

Originally posted by ADEC Inc:

In addition to the above, a class can also be a theme or archetype, with 3 aspects or variations represented by its skill trees. Take the Embermage, wielder of elemental energies.

Each pair of these twins you suggest could probably be rolled into one class with different skill trees, but that's just my vague impression so far. #2

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

Originally posted by ADEC Inc:

In addtion to the above, a class can also be a theme or archetype, with 3 aspects or variations represented by its skill trees. Take the Embermage, wielder of elemental energies.

Each pair of these twins you suggest could probably be rolled into one class with different skill trees, but that's just my vague impression so far.

There was this mod that combined all the trees from all the characters into one.

So you could play an Embermage with Berzerker skills for instance #3

Originally posted by HunterKiller:

I have a Berserker that has every skill in the game, in Vanilla and I just cruise through the game killing all, at will. He's only level 59 but, at any time, he can play NG+. He's finished the all of the game so, to me, unless you just want to play one character as that class, the skills make no difference. #4

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

Originally posted by HunterKiller:

I have a Berserker that has every skill in the game, in Vanilla and I just cruise through the game killing all, at will. He's only level 59 but, at any time, he can play NG+. He's finished the all of the game so, to me, unless you just want to play one character as that class, the skills make no difference.

How can you have a Berzerker that have every skills of the game in Vanilla ? #5

Originally posted by steffire3:

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

A Torchlight 2 class is defined as

• Base stats (starting strenght, dexterity, etc..)
  
• Available skills
  
• Appearance

Exactly my point... I will go a step further and state that when modders write Character Stories into their mods they find ways to attach it to these very same stats, skills, and even their clothing which can have info of a person or society written onto it.

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

In Torchlight 2, 1 class = 1 character. You can't imagine the Berzerker with big muscles playing Mage. Nor can you imagine the Embermage being feral and use claws. It does not really fit together.

Class = Character.

Yes, the original classes are intended that way...

Although some mods have used Skill Trees to define a character...

which leads me to the interesting question of what happens when the

Skill = Character.

It's as if Berserkers [with big muscles] were certainly playing Ice Mage with the Tundra Tree.

But you do have a point... it comes down to how we all define the source of that character.

Curiously even the original classes use gear, weapon and clothing to define character as well.

Mondon's Set is a lore set of Mondon's legacy with unique stats... yet this same system can be used for:

Clothing = Character.

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

I think the RPG aspect is not the crucial point of Torchlight 2. If you're looking for a proper RPG and highly customizable experience, there are other games for that (such as The Elder Scrolls series for example).

True. TL2 gameplay does not rely on RPG [Story Game] elements...

In spite of this... I find that modders use RPG aspects to actually decide what skills they place into their classes which actually means that skills "can" be intimately linked back to an RPG mindset... in fact it has been used by many modders to make their classes unique from each other.

In TL2 a Character [or Person] is not defined by speech but in writing.

Many armor sets have lore written into them and some modded classes even have lore written onto their skill descriptions.

Originally posted by potterman28wxcv:

How do mods like Synergies/Far East prove your point ? You cited them but you didn't give any explanation

Originally posted by steffire3:

= = =

Sometimes a _modder_ wants to create a person inside a combat game...

= = =

If a Class = a Person: It requires many Classes to represent many People.

If Skills = a Person: It means a Class must represent many People within itself.

= = =

does the modder choose to make a large class pack of similar skills?

[Same Arrow- Different Element.]

= = =

Or make a small class pack of vastly different skills?

[Different techniques- Less Variation.]
= = =

They prove that Classes which define Characters restrict those characters [read war techniques] to the Class itself...

Far East proves this even more than Synergies by the fact that a Kensei can be similar to a Ronin but cannot be a Mongolian Archer.

"Skill = Character" has everything to do with flexibility within a Class to literally "morph" into a totally different character [War technique]...

"Clothing = Character" means the Class can "change" character [war style] by simply wearing armor sets that "allow" the player to "play" the role and gear stats associated with that Person.

"Class = Character" restricts the class to be only of itself. This is good when creating large class packs like the Far East as they lead to intensely focused skill personality.

Originally posted by steffire3:

Originally posted by HunterKiller:

I have a Berserker that has every skill in the game, in Vanilla and I just cruise through the game killing all, at will. He's only level 59 but, at any time, he can play NG+. He's finished the all of the game so, to me, unless you just want to play one character as that class, the skills make no difference.

True... Original Classes were defined to be mainly of 1 Character.

All the Skills inside the Berserker are intended for itself...

= = =

Modded Territory: Is where this definition can be placed elsewhere besides the Class itself.

Originally posted by steffire3:

Originally posted by ADEC Inc:

In addition to the above, a class can also be a theme or archetype, with 3 aspects or variations represented by its skill trees. Take the Embermage, wielder of elemental energies.

Each pair of these twins you suggest could probably be rolled into one class with different skill trees, but that's just my vague impression so far.

I thank you for pointing out how vague that description was... I added some [detail] to hopefully describe it better.

My concept of a Twin [2] Class Pack is actually best viewed as one class [you were very perceptive and in fact that is exactly what I hope others will see.]

You have a point that it could have been rolled into one class... the reason it couldn't be one is because originally it started as 10 classes [the 11th Person was a combined super class which eventually "ate" the other 10 to form the "Twins"].

The 10 Classes were basically being developed in my mind under the concept of:

Originally posted by steffire3:

= = =

does the modder choose to make a large class pack of similar skills?

[Same Arrow- Different Element.]

= = =

However this proved to be too time consuming for me [remember the clothing set pieces I mentioned? It was 640 pieces.] Because the amount of skills required was 330 [It's a ton of work] and most of those skills were virtually the same within the tree itself...

Which meant I was going to be making much of the same thing:

7_arrowsx15_ranks=105 per "unique" skill since only the "element" or "effect" factor changed.

= = =

@Everyone: Fun Fact...

a Skill of 15 ranks is actually 15 skills... [yes it's daunting when you add multipiers (in work not game stats) per individual class being built.]

Typical Individual Class = 30x15=450 actual skills to "program" in Guts.

10 Classes = 4500.

Twin [2] Class = Only 900 actual skills. Assuming 30 per Class.

= = =

That is when I realized that I could boil [simplify] down the 10 Characters and greatly represent their backstory and unique war techniques into 2 Skills each Character [What a relief when I saw that possibility!]

Hence I began to question why a Class must equal a Character when I can actually make a flexible 10 Characters [with gear sets!] inside 2 "super" variations of the same [skillfully diversified] Class.

Curiously, when I look at a Class as the "Game" and the Skill as the "Character", I find that the only need to switch classes [read: can't take your XP progress with you.] is when the desire arises to play as the other "Twin", [which also allows players a very important variation style option at the start of the game].

= = =

It's true that I could have placed all the elements into one class... but then I realized that I could divide the "Twins" into distinct styles without having to change the bedrock of the skills themselves... just the dual elements... charge bonus as more critical or more speed... color changes to the skills and clothing itself... different status effects... and I realized it was a good idea... I've been working towards it ever since.

= = =

Twin A:
Charge gives Speed Bonus.
Fire DPS Tree, Teleport-Summon %Chance Tree [Physical DPS], Poison DPS Tree.

Twin B:
Charge gives Critical Bonus.
Ice DPS Tree, Teleport-Summon %Chance Tree [Physical DPS], Electric DPS Tree.

All the trees also carry various flat elemental damage so the DPS is actually just one layer of elemental damage... every tree is actually dealing 2 or 3 elements worth of damage along with the DPS and Flat Damage [which obviously changes depending on the Tree].

= = =

I hope this explains why I decided not to merge the 10 into 1 but instead into 2 Twins.

Current Reason 1: I wanted a Class Mod that offers more than 1 Class but not too many.

Current Reason 2: I wanted Classes that felt distinct from each other despite being "Twins" since the clone feeling is offset by TL2's own 4 [5] element system [2 for 2] [5th is shared].

Current Reason 3: I wanted 3 Trees and 36 skills [it used to be 30] and it will give me enough space to make them both extremely versitile... literally all in one style.

Current Reason 4: For anyone playing with the original skill point system [1 for 1] it means that not too many skills can be maxed out despite the versitility. [and with 2 for 1 it means using most of the class in one file].

= = =

The Clothing System in Numbers:

11 sets x2 Classes [different opposite stat boosts]
6 clothing... 2 weapons [a one handed and a two handed.] per Set.

Twin A, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11.
Twin B, 11 10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1.

^^^Notice I reversed the order in which they appear in the game between the Twins?

It allows the earlier sets to have an "alternate element high level version" that can be used in the end game... since every set has a different weapon and stat bonuses associated with it.

= = =

Of course it's all still in theory... but that hasn't stopped me from refining it... all this planning is actually saving me a ton of work in the long run.

= = =

I hope these numbers help other future mod class pack makers save time or inspire them to think outside the box.

= = =

Originally posted by Darkthan9800:

I can't say much for the base game, but the way I've designed my characters and classes is through every class being a different character, but every skill tree represents different breakdowns of that "character." For example, the Blackguard is the ultimate melee character, but he has three different trees that represent different variations of that "ultimate melee character": the first, the Barbarian tree, represents barbaric characters that care very little about defense, and believe that a good defense requires a good offense etc. He often uses two one handed swords, and can cast skills like whirlwind. I would see this tree as a singular "character," since the other two trees are vastly different, and play differently as well.

Another example of how this would work, is my Archery tree in the Hunter class that you described. The Archery tree represents one character, and that character is the Archer. The Archer is supposed to use exclusively ranged weapons, whereas the second and third trees can be melee or ranged, depending on your playstyle.

The great thing about Torchlight is that you can mix the three trees of any given class and make your own unique "character." For example, if the fantasy that you want to create for your character is that of a tanky, melee-orientated summoner type character, it is possible to do. The Witchdoctor from my mod can do this, if you go down through his first tree, picking up skills along the way, you can use melee skills, while also going down his summoner tree, effectively becoming the melee-orientated summoner "character."

Originally posted by RnF:

Hmm interesting topic.

When I decide what classes to play in a game (vanilla and mods), the first thing I look for is what type of play-style ie is it Melee Class, Ranged Class or Magic Class? These can all be split and combined into a million ways, but those three categories generally make up every class in every game.

TL2 is no different. Behind the game engine, there are 3 types of categories for items/damage

1. Martial (Melee)
2. Ranged
3. Magic

All damage is routed through one of these damage types no matter the type of character class, weapon, skills or spells they use.

For me a class if more the CULTURE of that person and how they fit in that culture hierarchy. A class must be at least one of the three above categories, so really there are only 3 main classes in TL2. Of course a class could technically be all three with three very different skill trees that specialize in each one separately :)

Krita is a free art app. They do accept donations.

Main Steam Image Update for FEP+.

I thank "potterman28wxcv" for reminding me early release that this mod needed a better image and now I finally had a day with several hours to work on it. Enjoy the orange glow of the moon lighting the bamboo forest and the more easily readable names inside the image itself.

Instructions for anyone who wants to generate or edit an image similar to this:

00. Save images as Png files since those are Open Source.

01. Almost all the tools were Open Source however "Windows Snipping Tool" was not, go use a safe Open Source Screen Capture Tool if needed. (Guts, Torchlight 2 and Steam are not Open Source and are not related to the creation of images).

02. Write the mod name with a Font (use Italics and Bold if needed) inside "Open Office" then Screen Capture around the name.

03. Open "Krita" and use some of those crazy brushes that splatters paint around a 512 pixel square sized background.

04. Open "G'Mic" inside "Krita" and select a filter that scrambles the colors all over the image and use various filters several times if needed.

05. Grab and drop the Font name image inside "Krita" as a new Layer then use the Transform Tool to resize the Font image layer to an ideal size.

06. Desaturate the Font Image Layer and Invert it's color if needed then duplicate it and move it slightly away from the name for depth.

07. Use the Selection Tools to grab all the color inside the Font name and use the Brush Tools to give some horizons and particle effects to the inside of the Font Image.

08. Decorate the edges of the picture with Brushes that emulate plants and other interesting visuals.

09. Begin to duplicate (make copies of) the layers and use Gradients and other Color Effects Tools (create your own Gradients for maximum options) to switch their colors and create many layers that all look different (again consider G'Mic and the "Opacity function" for effects).

10. Now for the important Tool: The Brush set to be an Eraser. Start to carefully erase certain areas (again Opacity is very good here and several sizes of Eraser so bigger for large areas and very small for detail) so lower Layers begin to show. Check your layers constantly and just start experimenting with what lighting, shading and palettes look best for the image needed for the project. Auto Contrast is very useful if the Gradient Tool made the words of a lower layer too dormant grey by changing them instead to be shaded, lit and readable.

11. "Krita" allows progress and layers to be saved in a special file so use that if needed for later edits.

12. When ready, don't stop. Just keep experimenting. Reapply the Gradient Tool several times if needed. The best combinations are the ones with the most options in their layers.

13. If everything was done effectively then the final image should be very interesting to view,

14. Thanks for reading and enjoy making your own images! ^_^

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1643164558918553575/

= = =

Yusi:
is there any specific instruction of how to craft blood embers?

steffire:
The Recipe to combine any 3 Embers will always provide a random result of Rare Ember (Iron, Mana, Blood, or Chaos). An ideal method to speedily buy Embers for crafting is to use the one way Mapworks Portal (no location option is provided on use) located north west in the 4th Town to reset the Gem Vendor. Another method is to use the Lan Re-Roll World option and have either the Act 2 Gem Vendor be available after completing the Skara Side Quest or simply have the Act 3 or 4 Towns available which already have a Gem Vendor.

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/3422194223895715663/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1652171126133378442/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1643164649204393667/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1645418448925805022/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/4580716151538479767/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1652171126117716049/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/1678064284152445255/

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/workshop/discussions/18446744073709551615/1642041106366877653/?appid=200710

steffire3:
After playing Elite and Veteran on different NG+ many times I'm now convinced that some room layouts are restricted towards specific difficulties and +#.
Now I'm hoping that some modder enables a mod that allows any and all layouts to be used. There's an old burned farm in the Temple Steppes that has appeared on Veteran yet never on Elite for me.

Endalrin:
Ah, that would make sense.

https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/app/200710/discussions/0/2530372519564178494/