Apparently from what I hear this thread will still be used to collect ideas, so you can use this or the Discord server.

It's not dead so please don't say that it is or try to tell people to switch over to the Discord server. Thank you.

Now that that's out of the way.

**The Spay and Pray**
*Sniper Secondary*
[+] On hit: milks enemy for 3 seconds
[+] Every 2 headshots with your primary adds a status effect
[~] 2 headshots: makes enemy bleed
[~] 4 headshots: marks enemy for death and Jarates them
[~] 6 headshots: slows target down
[+] Every headshot increases the status effect duration - up to a maximum of 10 seconds
[+/-] Weapon is projectile based (fast as Direct Hit rocket and travels in the same fashion)
[+/-] Recharges after 8 seconds
[-] Headshot bonus decreases by half on use
[-] Only has one shot in the clip
[-] Cannot gain ammo for this weapon
Model: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=952058413

Will be happy to clear things up. This is rather confusing, I know.

Originally posted by LegoFan9o5:

Sooooo, what's the balance mindset for the Gunner's Goodybag? You have to charge only 20% more and taunt for all the banners AND an ammo reserve regen, it doesn't sound very punishing.

To understand why I mention this is mathematics behind all three banners simultaneously:
100 Base rocket damage x 1.35 multiplyer of minicrits is 135 damage.
135 damage * 0.35 effective healing of the concheror = 47.25 health gained per rocket
42.25 * 1.35% passive resistance of the Battalion's backup = 63~ equivalent health gained

This mathematic proof allows Soldiers to have the ability to have rockets without falloff that heal him for a fourth of his base health pool, provide immunity to random crits and the Kritzkreig, increase his health pool to 260 equivalent HP and synergises immensily well with either the increased healing of the Black Box (in terms of eHP, 27+63=90 health gained on hit), the faster rockets of the Liberty, the sheer direct damage of the Direct Hit (79 eHP on hit) and the booty blasting potential of the "vomit rockets on your foes" Beggar's Bazooka, or the Steel Slayer.

In the hands of any soldier, this equates to having a Crit-a-Cola to bolster the immense power of the Rocket Launcher to unfathomable and frankly sick and unfair heights.

I feel like the effects of these banners should at least be halved. Not duration per se, but the actual effects of the damage boost, healing and speed boost, etc. The effects do seem pretty extreme.

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

Originally posted by sqwid:

It's a training weapon if anything. It's not supposed to be viable, just as practice.

at that point it should just be removed for an actually viable weapon.

Viability =/= Unfun to use

That's like removing the Rocket Jumper from the game because it doesn't deal damage.

Originally posted by AwesomeGuyDj:

So 1. The sentry jumper isnt listed in the weapons list, so i dont have its exact stats but from what i've seen its pretty bad.
You cant primary attack and take no fall damage?

It's a training weapon if anything. It's not supposed to be viable, just as practice.

Originally posted by MEDIC!:

Originally posted by sqwid:

I'm busy and really need to get some work done so I'm just going to leave a short reason on why I feel the Booster Shot is a terrible weapon. This is balancing around comp gameplay rather than pub, but mind you it should still apply because if a weapon isn't balanced with comp in mind then there's a problem.

But anyways, the main problem with the Booster Shot is that overheal is powerful enough with a normal Medigun, but overheal with the Booster Shot is just too much. You're giving up invincibility for several seconds, yes, but the upside of having your teammates' max health boosted up beyond the max limit is ridiculous. 250 health light classes like Lego stated above is insane, and the fact that it trades this for 8 seconds of Uber makes the stock Medigun look inferior. Sure a Spy can backstab the Medic and/or his patient, but remember that Pyros are an extremely hard counter to a Spy, making him inferior if a somewhat decent Pyro spychecks the whole area. Not to mention overhealed Heavies can survive a fully charged headshot from the Sniper, which is just a sick joke (and this is coming from someone who thinks Sniper in its current state needs a nerf).

Basically, a larger overheal isn't going to work as a passive attribute, though as an Uber it could work out. Passively, I think that this should overheal targets faster while also making overheal decay slower so it still retains the power of an overheal patient, with less of the ridiculousness.

/rant

You might be interested in a sniper rifle I posted to the new wep suggestion thread...

Ehh, not really. Creating a direct counter of an unlockable weapon would make it very useless in every other situation and not worth equipping. It'd be better to instead just rework the troubled weapon instead of having to equip a specific weapon to counter it.

Originally posted by MEDIC!:

Originally posted by sqwid:

I've tried to get this thing reworked but no one does anything about it. In competitive play it would very OP but unfortunately they balance these weapon among pubs rather than comp, which is a really bad way of handling things imo

Yeah, we balance around pubs, a good spy can still one shot a 900HP Heavy (With the Uber), and, as a medic main when serious, it's the other team's fault for letting the overheal get that bad to be honest. (That being said, post a weapon in the suggestion thread for Sniper to hard counter overheal in some fashion. If the problem with the Booster Shot is "There does not exist a hard counter to it.", the solution might be to make one.) In comp, you always try to pick the med so he doesn't pop an Uber, same rules should apply here. If I know I can pop a full Uber safely, I'll maybe go Booster Shot, otherwise, Vaccinator, Vaccinator, Vaccinator...

I'm busy and really need to get some work done so I'm just going to leave a short reason on why I feel the Booster Shot is a terrible weapon. This is balancing around comp gameplay rather than pub, but mind you it should still apply because if a weapon isn't balanced with comp in mind then there's a problem.

But anyways, the main problem with the Booster Shot is that overheal is powerful enough with a normal Medigun, but overheal with the Booster Shot is just too much. You're giving up invincibility for several seconds, yes, but the upside of having your teammates' max health boosted up beyond the max limit is ridiculous. 250 health light classes like Lego stated above is insane, and the fact that it trades this for 8 seconds of Uber makes the stock Medigun look inferior. Sure a Spy can backstab the Medic and/or his patient, but remember that Pyros are an extremely hard counter to a Spy, making him inferior if a somewhat decent Pyro spychecks the whole area. Not to mention overhealed Heavies can survive a fully charged headshot from the Sniper, which is just a sick joke (and this is coming from someone who thinks Sniper in its current state needs a nerf).

Basically, a larger overheal isn't going to work as a passive attribute, though as an Uber it could work out. Passively, I think that this should overheal targets faster while also making overheal decay slower so it still retains the power of an overheal patient, with less of the ridiculousness.

/rant

Originally posted by LegoFan9o5:

The Booster Shot, oh boy this Medigun. It sounds balanced on paper, but the potential it brings is rather scary. 250 Scouts, Snipers and Spies are all very powerful assets to the team, as well as having 600 HP Heavies, 400 HP Soldiers and so on. These values are intense and extremely unfun to play against. In a 1v1 of Sniper and Sniper, having that overheal is monumental to survival. So having pretty much a garunteed survival after a quickscope makes this Medigun pretty much Darwins Danger Shield in a beam! Sure Mediguns can do the same, and is promoted in high tier play, but this weapon makes it so much easier to do, with more HP to fall back on AND for longer. Oh, and having the DDS and this fully heal to 300 would allow an enemy to quickscope you twice and you could LIVE. Maybe the decay is faster than what I think it is, but having something as small as a small health kit can literally make survival thrice as easy, which is kinda disgusting to think about.

Jokes aside, the main issue I have with this weapon is its potential to overheal Heavies, Soldiers and any class to a value over 450. Because it exceedes even the highest burst damage in the game, and quite literally shuts down enemy Snipers. Because having to charge the shot fully, Twice in a row would pretty much make it an impossible feat to take out an ubered 900 HP Heavy, especially if that medic or multiple pocket him. Plus having more overheal seems to be a massive gain in comparison to the faster healing/less overheal of the Medigun, especially when playing on offense with carts being able to substitute healing power to get to the overheal faster.

I've tried to get this thing reworked but no one does anything about it. In competitive play it would very OP but unfortunately they balance these weapon among pubs rather than comp, which is a really bad way of handling things imo

Originally posted by cTF2w DannyPlaysSomeGames:

Originally posted by sqwid:

Alright so here's a big list of things I'd like changed from the current weapon list. This doesn't apply to donator's only weapons since I haven't had the chance to use any of them but I digress.

Scout
The Condiment Cannon

Off the bat this version of the weapon is both somewhat lackluster and yet on the other hand very powerful with a team. I know a lot of people are on the "this is so UP pls buff" train. But let's not forget that on hit the duration of each effect lasts for 10 seconds. So the first hit is going to guarantee you take mini-crits from all enemies for 10 seconds, making it a very powerful support weapon. It's less annoying now, but it's still pretty annoying that you're going to be taking 35% more damage from a single bullet hitting you for 10 seconds. So the first thing I'd like to suggest is instead of making the combo system the way it is, rearrange it so it does the less impactful thing first and THEN the more powerful debuffs later on. So make the combo system work kind of like this:

* 1st shot - Fire
* 2nd shot - Bleed
* 3rd shot - Milk
* 4th shot - Fire

That way the weapon can deal damage first and then if the next couple of hits are successful you get the milked and fire attribute as well.

Second thing I'd like to suggest is that the duration be changed to fit how far away the target is from the Scout. Since every shot from every distance is going to be 10 seconds, and the fact that first pellet is always going to be 100% accurate, it feels a little unfair to be hit with a debuff from across the map for 10 seconds by a Scout. I'd change it so that the further you are, the less the duration is (or maybe even make the duration only begin at a certain range like the Pomson does for Uber and cloak drain) and then have the duration scale up to around 8 seconds at close range.

Finally, I think to compensate for that change that the direct damage attribute should be removed and replaced with shots that deal at least some damage. I get that it's a support weapon, but so is the Sleeper, and it can still deal up to 150 damage at full charge. So yeah it summation, nerf the support this weapon has while buffing the offensive capabilities it brings to the table.

Melee Booster

Just think it needs a no random critical hits attribute to the melee since it can be boosted to one hit kill a Heavy, which is pretty dumb.

Slammer

Okay so this weapon is pretty good as a utility weapon, and the only downside you have while out is that you deal little damage with it out. Some type of damage vulnerability should balance it out like other utility melee weapons do (Escape Plan, Gloves of Running Urgently, etc)

Slugger's Face Off

Instead of making it luck based, which is what we're trying to really avoid in this mod, it should build up an evasiveness meter that when full makes the Scout invulnerable to damage for a certain amount of time or something similar to that regard. Any chance weapons are a no no.

Soldier
Battering Cannon

Personal choice, but I think the projectile speed penalty should be replaced with a damage penalty. It feels so unfun to play with this thing since the projectiles travel so slow, so I think trading up with damage while knocking back enemies would be fine.

Follower

Nothing about the stats, but I'd like to see the model at least be transparent since I can't see a damn thing with it and have to take viewmodels off to use it :V

Merasmus's Private Stash

Another big no no chance banner. Most effects are useless, but when someone get a really good effect I imagine it being pretty unfair to the other team. I'd like to see an attribute where pressing the reload button switches between different banners, but I'm not sure how possible that would be.

Pyro
Sharpshooter (both melee and secondary)

I've never been able to get use of the 5 seconds of faster firing speed on kill with either of these weapons, so I'd like to suggest either a longer duration of firing speed or perhaps a damage boost with each of these weapons along with the firing speed.

Heavy
Electroshock

The attribute where Heavy still dies from critical hits should probably be replaced to just backstabs and headshots unless the random critical hits are removed from the servers.

Engineer
Frontal Lobe

Since standing near a dispenser guarantees you unlimited ammo, then an attribute that while active you cannot collect ammo for this weapon would be a fair and small balance to how powerful it is.

Sniper
The Didgeridoom

Okay, I'm not gonna lie, this is one of the weapons I voted to be removed from the update. Not because it was unfun or unbalanced or whatever, but because it's a carbon copy of Sydney Sleeper with just more debuffs on hit. I'd say if it were up to me, it'd be removed entirely since we already have a weapon that functions identically in terms of playstyle. I know this isn't really a balance, but it's what I feel that should be done.

Manncannon

The downside is so unnoticeable and the extra damage it provides is so high that it's practically a straight upgrade to me. I'd be okay with a damage nerf to the bullet damage it does to make the damage the same for the stock while keeping the small downside it has to make it sort of like the Iron Bomber of rifles.

Spy
Eternal Youth Maiden

The worst offender of chance based weaponry on this list. As a Heavy if a Spy tries to backstab you but fails and you track him down perfectly with your Minigun, he has a very high chance of getting away anyway because of the 75% chance of dodging any attack that it provides. It's a very stupid mechanic. I propose that instead that the whole weapon be reworked into something more along the lines of cloaking will make you invisible no matter if you bump into someone or get shot and give you a great damage resistance and in return you also have a longer cloak/decloak period. This is just an idea, but what I'm trying to say is that the primary positive attribute just shouldn't work.

Multi-Class
Action Hale

The large melee range attribute (both the positive and negative attribute of it) completely ruins the fun gimmick of this weapon for me since it's so slow to use, so I'd be okay with just doing away with it completely.

The Raiding Aid

There was a version of this weapon several years back when it had four bullets in its clip but killing someone instantly reloaded it or something. I'd like that iteration back instead of the current one we have, because it's really horrendous on every class right now.

I'm suprised you didn't mention the Old Reliable on this list. It's basically a turtle weapon, and turtle-supporting weapons are really awful. It's also downright OP due to the fact that the only downside can be countered with turtling, making it more of a nuisance.

Haven't used it yet but from the stats I don't find it too powerful looking. Sentry nests can still be taken down by Ubercharges and Demos/Soldiers. Not to mention the biggest buffs on it only apply to Spies, and even then Spies still seem like they can counter a lone Engi with this wrench.

Alright so here's a big list of things I'd like changed from the current weapon list. This doesn't apply to donator's only weapons since I haven't had the chance to use any of them but I digress.

Scout
The Condiment Cannon

Off the bat this version of the weapon is both somewhat lackluster and yet on the other hand very powerful with a team. I know a lot of people are on the "this is so UP pls buff" train. But let's not forget that on hit the duration of each effect lasts for 10 seconds. So the first hit is going to guarantee you take mini-crits from all enemies for 10 seconds, making it a very powerful support weapon. It's less annoying now, but it's still pretty annoying that you're going to be taking 35% more damage from a single bullet hitting you for 10 seconds. So the first thing I'd like to suggest is instead of making the combo system the way it is, rearrange it so it does the less impactful thing first and THEN the more powerful debuffs later on. So make the combo system work kind of like this:

* 1st shot - Fire
* 2nd shot - Bleed
* 3rd shot - Milk
* 4th shot - Fire

That way the weapon can deal damage first and then if the next couple of hits are successful you get the milked and fire attribute as well.

Second thing I'd like to suggest is that the duration be changed to fit how far away the target is from the Scout. Since every shot from every distance is going to be 10 seconds, and the fact that first pellet is always going to be 100% accurate, it feels a little unfair to be hit with a debuff from across the map for 10 seconds by a Scout. I'd change it so that the further you are, the less the duration is (or maybe even make the duration only begin at a certain range like the Pomson does for Uber and cloak drain) and then have the duration scale up to around 8 seconds at close range.

Finally, I think to compensate for that change that the direct damage attribute should be removed and replaced with shots that deal at least some damage. I get that it's a support weapon, but so is the Sleeper, and it can still deal up to 150 damage at full charge. So yeah it summation, nerf the support this weapon has while buffing the offensive capabilities it brings to the table.

Melee Booster

Just think it needs a no random critical hits attribute to the melee since it can be boosted to one hit kill a Heavy, which is pretty dumb.

Slammer

Okay so this weapon is pretty good as a utility weapon, and the only downside you have while out is that you deal little damage with it out. Some type of damage vulnerability should balance it out like other utility melee weapons do (Escape Plan, Gloves of Running Urgently, etc)

Slugger's Face Off

Instead of making it luck based, which is what we're trying to really avoid in this mod, it should build up an evasiveness meter that when full makes the Scout invulnerable to damage for a certain amount of time or something similar to that regard. Any chance weapons are a no no.

Soldier
Battering Cannon

Personal choice, but I think the projectile speed penalty should be replaced with a damage penalty. It feels so unfun to play with this thing since the projectiles travel so slow, so I think trading up with damage while knocking back enemies would be fine.

Follower

Nothing about the stats, but I'd like to see the model at least be transparent since I can't see a damn thing with it and have to take viewmodels off to use it :V

Merasmus's Private Stash

Another big no no chance banner. Most effects are useless, but when someone get a really good effect I imagine it being pretty unfair to the other team. I'd like to see an attribute where pressing the reload button switches between different banners, but I'm not sure how possible that would be.

Pyro
Sharpshooter (both melee and secondary)

I've never been able to get use of the 5 seconds of faster firing speed on kill with either of these weapons, so I'd like to suggest either a longer duration of firing speed or perhaps a damage boost with each of these weapons along with the firing speed.

Heavy
Electroshock

The attribute where Heavy still dies from critical hits should probably be replaced to just backstabs and headshots unless the random critical hits are removed from the servers.

Engineer
Frontal Lobe

Since standing near a dispenser guarantees you unlimited ammo, then an attribute that while active you cannot collect ammo for this weapon would be a fair and small balance to how powerful it is.

Sniper
The Didgeridoom

Okay, I'm not gonna lie, this is one of the weapons I voted to be removed from the update. Not because it was unfun or unbalanced or whatever, but because it's a carbon copy of Sydney Sleeper with just more debuffs on hit. I'd say if it were up to me, it'd be removed entirely since we already have a weapon that functions identically in terms of playstyle. I know this isn't really a balance, but it's what I feel that should be done.

Manncannon

The downside is so unnoticeable and the extra damage it provides is so high that it's practically a straight upgrade to me. I'd be okay with a damage nerf to the bullet damage it does to make the damage the same for the stock while keeping the small downside it has to make it sort of like the Iron Bomber of rifles.

Spy
Eternal Youth Maiden

The worst offender of chance based weaponry on this list. As a Heavy if a Spy tries to backstab you but fails and you track him down perfectly with your Minigun, he has a very high chance of getting away anyway because of the 75% chance of dodging any attack that it provides. It's a very stupid mechanic. I propose that instead that the whole weapon be reworked into something more along the lines of cloaking will make you invisible no matter if you bump into someone or get shot and give you a great damage resistance and in return you also have a longer cloak/decloak period. This is just an idea, but what I'm trying to say is that the primary positive attribute just shouldn't work.

Multi-Class
Action Hale

The large melee range attribute (both the positive and negative attribute of it) completely ruins the fun gimmick of this weapon for me since it's so slow to use, so I'd be okay with just doing away with it completely.

The Raiding Aid

There was a version of this weapon several years back when it had four bullets in its clip but killing someone instantly reloaded it or something. I'd like that iteration back instead of the current one we have, because it's really horrendous on every class right now.

Originally posted by Loreknight:

Mhmm
Sorry if I wasn't putting more of my efforts into being nice than actually balancing

If it's that hard for you to put effort into being nice then that's not really a good thing :o

But I digress.

The Escape Ram
Demo Secondary Shield
[+]+50% faster recharge rate
[+]+2 seconds of extra charge
[+]Full turning control while charging
[-]-15% damage vulnerability while charging
[-]Unable to use your weapons while charging
[-]No impact damage

Model: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=107856442&searchtext=