Quick buy and quick sell is still your own choice, you can wait untill you get a decent offer or you can sell right away for fast cash, I used to be a high end trader and sometimes it can take months to sell a unusual for the fair price so some people sells it cheaper.

Personally i never did quick sell unless it was to stock up again, I do also know tho, if a quick buy offer seems more like a sharking problem then it is just to report it and the mods will look into it, had that problem myself a few times ^_^

So all in all it is just your choice to tell them to either fuck off or say yes ^_^

Regulating a free market is a cancerous plague. See: Any country that has ever tried to do this.

Originally posted by POOP TITTIES:

Regulating a free market is a cancerous plague. See: Any country that has ever tried to do this.

Then why are weapon-to-unusual trades and others with unrealistic buyouts closed, but not "gib 4 bud hat fer 1 pure nao" trades?

Also, the united states does this. They have an organization called the Securites and Exchange Commssion specifically for that.

We do not believe that we should be in the position of telling traders what they can and can not ask for in their trades. We only disallow troll trades or ones that would more than likely be seen as explicit sharking for obvious reasons.

The weapon to unusual trade is not allowed because it isn't a trade, but a series of trades that is meant to give one person notoriety over time, which is why it is disallowed just like key inflation activism trades, donation trades or services. It is also seen as somewhat misleading as you cannot change what you're trading on the webpage and once that initial weapon has been traded off, the trade needs to be closed.

I'll speak personally because I don't know the other staff members personal opinions and I'll let them speak for themselves, but I was just about as anti-quickbuy as you could be not too long ago. The trades in my opinion add clutter and are very annoying to me. That's not even to mention what some believe they have done to unusual trading. It's a strategy that offers very little chance to actually succeed and when it does, you'd be lucky to get a quicksale on a hat worth more than one Earbud.

The thing is, while it is rare, it is something that happens. It has become a trend in trading and does occur now. We cannot disallow some form of trading because we personally do not like it or find it distasteful.

I see. Don't you think it would be easier to simply close trades that BUY quicksells, because people can already say that they're selling at a reduced price in thier own trades?

It's become common knowledge that everyone with pure wants more than what they have, and because it does happen that people actually do quicksell, would it not make more sense to leave it up to the sellers to mention that in their trades? It would cut down on the sea of lowballs that are pure-for-unusual trades.

Ie: if you wanted a quicksell, you would actually have to go out and search for one, as opposed to leaving a trade up all year demanding 4x your amount in unusuals.

I agree with you that in an ideal situation that would be the best way, and I'd much prefer it. But you have to think about what would realistically happen if we did that.

I've noticed little things that just pop up and go around over the now years of trading that has been done in TF2. I remember when the "tentative" offer was very common, and how "price is firm" has really skyrocketed in use over the last year or so when I could say I probably never saw it before that.

Users want to stick with what works, or more likely what they perceive as going to work. I can look into just about any random quickbuy trade and see sometimes dozens of offers, none of them taken because "this isn't a quicksale". Even if we banned quickbuy trades, these same people are going to make unusual buying trades and they're going to decline the same offers because "this is a highball".

Banning quickbuying is pretty much impossible, only because banning it is just banning the word and not the practice. "Quicksales only" will just turn into "Good offers only" trades and really we have done nothing meaningful.

Just to reiterate though, this isn't official position and just my opinion. I can't say which parts overlap with the reasoning behind allowing quickbuy trades and which don't.

The words themselves might be meaningless, but thier effect on unusual trading isn't. People use this kind of thing as evidence in price suggestions, and half the people either don't understand what quicksell means, or how rare it actually is. That, and everyone's definition of quicksell is wildly different depending on how good of a deal they're willing to wait for.

The most common 40-80% off the low end of backpack.tf depending on how cancer your hat/effect is, is downright silly (i've never seen anyone sell a 3+bud hat for , and in my mind seems unrealistic. The only reason items are expesive is becasue you should be able to get their value out of them, and if you have an entire website of people saying they're only willing to pay 20% in pure of what your hat's worth, and will wait untill someone comes along that's truly desperate seems counterproductive to the whole point of unusual trading.



A change that mentions the definition of unreasonable, and has people expect within reason of what they pay for would seem like a solution, without banning specfic words or changing the way people trade.

Well I cannot say much for backpack because I don't particularly care for the site, I'm not wild about how it makes people follow pretty rigid prices and justifies traders who refuse to negotiate. That's another topic for another time though and Outpost does not endorse nor discourage the site from being used.

It all boils down to what the community believes to be truly unrealistic, and that's just an abstract idea and huge gray area here. My unrealistic is not your unrealistic and isn't for probably 99.9% of people. I don't realistically think we can change what unrealistic means because it really lacks the meaning in the first place.

All in all, I still believe that if we changed everything to what you're suggesting, the problem of people making unusual buying trades and just refusing any offer they do not like is going going to happen. I do think it is something that has negatively impacted the community is various ways, but I also believe it's a natural and inevitable thing that just happens.

I'm going back off for a bit though and see if anyone else has opinions. I'm all for trying to help shape the community for the better and love these types of conversations.

Probably the most effective way to combat this (and one of the things I like most about Bazaar) is allowing users to blacklist specific trades or users they feel will not offer a reasonable deal inline, or accepting certain keywords (such as "quicksell") to remove from all searches.

Quickbuyers rely on being the only interested party a given trader can find, whether by spamming on a trade server or relisting a bunch of "quickbuying ___ class" trades. They hope that the seller will get frustrated and reluctantly agree to a bad deal. So when searching for unusual buyers, rather than having to skim past a 3-page wall of text of "QUICKSELL ONLY" every half hour, you press a button to "hide" and never see that trade (or optionally user) again. The closest thing to that right now is to click their trade, click their name, then block, then hit back several times, which is a real pain to do for as many quicksell trades as there are, hence the frustration. By simplifying that process of blacklisting bad traders on a per-user level, you remove the frustration from the equation and with a few exceptions for sell-tough hats, quickbuying becomes infeasible. Sort of turning the free market against them, if you will.

I'd be surprised if this kind of thing were ever implemented though.

As a trader you should expect any buying trades to be pay less than what items can go for. And this goes for any and every item.

I used to buy 'quick sell' unusuals and bought hundreds. I was very successful with the one 'quick buying' trade I had. From the comments, I did not look very successful but I was. You can't call trades clutter, when they are regularly getting sellers and buying.

I highly disagree that these quick buying trades have harmed the unusual market. The only harm to the unusual market that would come from buyers, is the lack of buyers in TF2 after unusuals for personal use.

As with many unusual buying trades exist, the higher chance as a seller you can find plenty of buyers who will give their offer. And you can take the best offer and end with pure and timed saved. These trades are aimed for the traders who want to just that and sell at a discount to get the pure within the hour and not deal with the hassles of selling.
Such as the time spent, and the possibility of reselling and reselling every mix/unusual offer recieved. It can span to months spent.

If you're looking for market price, these trades are appalling and cancerous.

True, that there are plenty expecting extremely dirt cheap unusual, but they are new to buying. And not successful and can be looked over, we can't close unsuccessful trades.

And why do we close unrealistic trades? They are always troll trades, and aren't serious. People who put my craft hat for HOUWAR, are joking around. And dont expect it to happen. And we know that so they are closed, and we know these 'bad quick buyers' are excepting unusuals.

Originally posted by LiddoJunior:

As with many unusual buying trades exist, the higher chance as a seller you can find plenty of buyers who will give their offer. And you can take the best offer and end with pure and timed saved. These trades are aimed for the traders who want to just that and sell at a discount to get the pure within the hour and not deal with the hassles of selling.

I agree with everything except this part.

It's not as simple as taking the best pure offer for time saved when EVERY pure trade is a fraction-of-the-price quickbuy trade. Concequently it's very hard to tell who has genuine interest, or is simply hoping to get lucky that someone needs pure desperately. Therefore you have to waste time posting offers on these trades, with the very real odds that they'll hide you for not selling for 60% off the low end of backpack.tf

The bad quicksell buyers you mention lose nothing by leaving their unrealistic trades open, as the cost of remaking those trades is very low, against the potential profit in a genuine quicksell.

It's impossible for buyers who want to sell quickly, yet want to retain some semblance of value in thier hat to do so due to all of these trades. Plus, every quicksell buyer sold to has thier sales recorded as proof on pricing websites, as for many low-tier unusuals, it's the only way to sell them, contributing to the devaluation of unsuals as whole, and giving the quickbuyers all the more reason to do what they do.

Im not saying it's outpost's job to save the unusual market, it just makes for a lengthy and frustrating trading experience when you have to search through 8 pages of genericly overt lowballs on virtually everything.

You seem just mad because you can't sell your hat(s). I have few hats laying around here for months too, should I blame quicksell buyers now? Do I have to force quicksell buyers to pay full price for my hats? It's just naive to expect a buyer trade paying full price for your hat.

You either sell it on your own for high or go to a quicksell buyer. It's your choice and nobody is forcing you anything. Nobody is going to do you a service by paying full price for it if they don't genuinely want it. You just have to deal with it. Trading with unusuals has these effects, if its too frustrating, then better don't trade in unusuals.

Originally posted by Ruff Ryders Entertainment:

You seem just mad because you can't sell your hat(s).

It's less efficent due to the "bad" quicksell buyers on sites like outpost, but easier on other places like TF2-Trader's server where quickbuying isnt allowed.

It never ceases to amaze me what people can strawman up against people when they see a suggestion they disagree with. Should i assume that you're a quicksell buyer, and that your 10 autobumped quickbuying trades that just sit around there, cluttering up the site untill an amazing deal comes by would be hurt by this?

No. Argue the topic, not the person.

Originally posted by ·ƒ· Captain Blades:

Originally posted by Ruff Ryders Entertainment:

You seem just mad because you can't sell your hat(s).

It's less efficent due to the "bad" quicksell buyers on sites like outpost, but easier on other places like TF2-Trader's server where quickbuying isnt allowed.

It never ceases to amaze me what people can strawman up against people when they see a suggestion they disagree with. Should i assume that you're a quicksell buyer, and that your 10 autobumped quickbuying trades that just sit around there, cluttering up the site untill an amazing deal comes by would be hurt by this?

No. Argue the topic, not the person.

You seem to feel very attacked. But I wasn't just talking to you on person. There are more people who blame quicksell buyers for ruining the unusual market. And didn't you admit yourself that you are frustated by quicksell buyers? Meaning you are mad because you can't sell your hat at normal price to them. Just telling the truth. You wouldn't be mad if there were +20 buyers who buy any unusual for full price.

Yes you can assume that.
And "cluttering" is just in your eyes. There is a reason why I buy every few days a unusual and each day many items at quicksell prices.

You seem to not care about other users. See how easy it is to interpret things based on wording? There's a difference between getting genuinely mad enough to start labeling a person based on what thier wording means to you, and thinking "hm. the site could be a bit easier to use like this, lets suggest this on the discussion boards, and hope quicksell buyers dont say "hurr durr ur jut mad".

I thought it would help the site, which is why i suggested it. If it really bothers you enough for you to invalidate it based off some reason you made up about me, then write it off based your own personal experiences, by all means suggest an idea which adresses the problem that (if not you) others may have, as opposed to focusing on me. This problem has been voiced before, and has been adressed in other places, but not here.

It may be fine to you, but you're not everyone.