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scobby do 29 Jan, 2013 @ 9:29pm
So... Why exactly are "quicksale only" trades allowed?
I know other peoples' arguments regarding why "quicksale only" trades (From here on referred to as QOT's) should be disallowed tend to revolve around how it's ridiculous and how it's close to sharking, but I have to disagree. The main reason QOT's are bad are because they are spam.

The main reasons people post QOT's are because:
a) People have unusuals, and QOT posters have pure.
b) QOT posters believe that unusual owners will reach a point of frustration with their trade where they'll finally break down and sell it for 30% or below of it's value, in hopes of getting pure or cashing out faster.
c) QOT posters are lazy and are only willing to make incredibly high amounts of profit.

But you guys know that already. However, you might be confused as to why I'm calling QOT's spam.

The vast majority of people who post QOT's will only buy unusuals that are at 50-80% cheaper than their normal value. Ask yourself this: If you had 1+ buds in pure, would you ever decline to trade those earbuds for something twice their value? Of course you wouldn't, that goes against human nature.

Posting a QOT is equivalent to saying "Yes, I have earbuds, and yes, I would like to have more earbuds." It's an obvious statement, and the worst part is, there are hundreds and hundreds of traders who will bump their QOT's. If I were to go into the "Matches" tab on my Outpost page, 90% of the trades that come up that involve my unusuals are quicksale only trades. I'm sure I'm not the only unusual trader who experiences this, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets incredibly frustrated trying to weed through hundreds of trades to find somebody who is legitimately interested in buying an unusual.

I guess the main argument against the fact that QOT's are spam are that there are traders out there who are truly desperate to get their hands on pure. This is true, but it's a very small percentage of the tf2 trader population. No trader who is determined to make more money (aka 99% of the trading community) is going to quicksell an item, that would be stupid. The only traders who will want to quicksell are the ones who are on their way out of the game. However, I can assure you, if a person who was bent on cashing out wanted to quicksell an item, they could easily post a trade saying "I want to sell my stuff for 40% off" and they'd have dozens of pure offers within an hour.

The solution? In my opinion, posting a QOT should be a bannable offense. It clogs the trade feed and is unecessary. However, I understand that this may be an extreme position. An alternate solution might be to either implement a feature that allows traders to mark their post as a QOT, and offer sellers a way to filter out those trades.

Anyways, if you made it this far, I'd like to congratulate you on being awesome. I hope to hear some of your opinions on this, and happy trading!
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Showing 1-15 of 53 comments
Uranium235 29 Jan, 2013 @ 9:54pm 
It works because selling an unusual for the "normal value" takes a lot of patience.
Not everybody has that patience. Unusuals tend to have a rather large price range anyway, so who's to say what the "normal price" is?

People with a lot of funds can afford to invest in items that sit in the shelf for a long time until sold. Others rather have 2 buds now than 2.5-3 later.
And for that shelfing (is that even a word), he expects a return on investment. Similar to what he would've made if he had traded with the 2 buds over and over in the meantime (opportunity costs).

That is why quickbuyers have a valid, if not viable, function, similar to banks and pawn shops in the real world.
(please no discussion about that analogy, it is flawed, I know)

So unless the quickbuyer is crossing the line with his price, why should he be banned?
Last edited by Uranium235; 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:00pm
#1
scobby do 29 Jan, 2013 @ 9:58pm 
Originally posted by Uranium235:
It works because selling an unusual for the "normal value" takes a lot of patience.
Not everybody has that patience. Unusuals tend to have a rather large price range anyway, so who's to say what the "normal price" is?

People with a lot of funds can afford to invest in items that sit in the shelf for a long time until sold. Others rather have 2 buds now than 2.5-3 later. And as such these quickbuyers have a valid, if not viable, function, similar to banks and pawn shops in the real world.
(please no discussion about that analogy, it is flawed, I know)

So unless the quickbuyer is crossing the line with his price, why should he be banned?

If you're not willing to sit on an unusual, waiting to get a fair offer, you can knock off 20-30% of the price and easily sell it off. And that's only if you're hoping to get pure. People get decent unusual offers all the time.
#2
Uranium235 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:06pm 
And that is what they do, just without the hassle of selling themselves. I highly doubt quickbuyers are successful with buying for 50% or less.

It's everybody's free choice to sell his unusual himself or find a quickbuyer that will take his unusual no matter what hat or effect for a good discount.
Last edited by Uranium235; 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:08pm
#3
scobby do 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:13pm 
I understand that it's their choice to sell their unusual or quicksell the hat, but if they want to quicksell, they can just post their own trade. By posting your own trade, you get the benefit of more views, and you're not limited to just one potential quickbuyer.
#4
Uranium235 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:16pm 
As I said, it's everybody's choice. Although not advisable, even the choice to only contact one quickbuyer.
#5
scobby do 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:24pm 
Originally posted by Uranium235:
As I said, it's everybody's choice. Although not advisable, even the choice to only contact one quickbuyer.
I'm a little confused. If you concede to the fact that selling to a quickbuyer is a bad idea, why is it ok for them to have hundreds of trades advertising the fact that they have pure clogging up outpost? It's a waste of real traders' time and makes it much harder to find serious buyers.

#6
Uranium235 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:28pm 
As you said, if you want to find serious buyers you're better off setting up your own trade. So I see no issue here.
#7
scobby do 29 Jan, 2013 @ 10:32pm 
Originally posted by Uranium235:
As you said, if you want to find serious buyers you're better off setting up your own trade. So I see no issue here.
Because it's good practice to not passively wait for a buyer to approach you. If given the chance, I'd gladly approach a serious buyer myself. This can't be done when 90% of the trades where somebody is offering to buy an unusual turn out to be QOT's.
#8
His Wardship 30 Jan, 2013 @ 12:07am 
From experience, I can say that most people who actually know how to trade efficiently, (Not people who just say, "Hurr Durr 99% off, I no Gaben i reprt u") would gladly take a hat that has been reduced in price by 25%, perhaps even including those extremely unpopular hats.

Other people, however are under the impression that it is possible to buy an item for 20% of it's value, which in my opinion qualifies as sharking, and should be punishable with a permanent ban. I abominate the very term "quicksale" as it has come to be synonymous with sharking in almost every practical sense.

I say, asking for anything up to 33% off an item is fine, maybe slightly more even, it's a free market after all, but when you get the point that you are asking for 50% off to sell an item, I think trades should start being closed.

I'm not sure of the admins or Sneeza's take on this however.
#9
A Rather Modest Samuel Jackson 30 Jan, 2013 @ 1:51am 
some people want quick money... it works like the pawn shop in your neighborhood.

honestly, it is pretty difficult to find someone who would actually sell something for 50% of its true value. Normally the people who do that are the owners of cancer hats with cancer effects that no one wants. And it would be pretty diffuclt for the buyer to sell even if they buy them for 50% of the market value.

#10
norby89 30 Jan, 2013 @ 3:45am 
I guess a rule like this wouldn't hurt, in case of unusuals. Other items are a different story, you'll almost always find someone "quickbuying" Bill's Hats for 7 Keys which I don't have any problem with. Others are free to buy for less than that but they will most likely get ignored.

When it comes to unusuals, buying a 3 buds unusual for 2 buds I'd say is not crossing any lines. So in my opinion anything up to 33% off would be ok. However if a rule like that is put up, that won't really stop the quickbuyers, you'll see the same old trades except everyone will be buying 33% off "or more".
#11
koukivert` 30 Jan, 2013 @ 8:11am 
I agree with having to put that it's a qot somewhere in the trade so you can weed that out. I too find it very frustrating trying to find people to buy items who really, legitamately WANT the item, not just people trying to make a quick buck. Good post
#12
boomerandzapper 30 Jan, 2013 @ 12:23pm 
Well people do want to "quicksell"
Let's say someone saw a really good deal. He buys it then, haveing little patience, offers it to all the quicksellers. He knows that he has already made profit, and now he's just making his profit into pure, maybe to buy another really good deal.

Or: For example, I had an unusual, and I quicksold it because it was halloween. I needed keys quickly so that's what I had to do.
#13
PurrrrC 30 Jan, 2013 @ 3:30pm 
Due to the technicality of outpost there is nothing really against quick buyers the only time when it's practically sharking is when they really are. So by all technicalities it's fine. Not all quick buyers are lazy I would think it would take a long time to find a good quick sell.

Besides if there's one good rule to follow in TF2 trading it's nerves of steel, but a heart like a marshmallow. You can sort of say I make my profit by quick sell but I don’t actually say that nor do I do ridiculous margins of profit. Besides I only trade for hats I want and hats that I know I can keep forever or one with a nice profit that the other party is willing to let go of. However in the process I bide my time hoping to either have an exact 1:1 in price or a nice bit of profit mostly 0.1 – 0.4 buds. Although one time I made 1bud profit but that was just luck. I even pointed that out to the other trader, curse good nature, and he said he was fine with that.

Hopefully the jurisdiction of outpost changes and stipulates limitations or employs cleaver means of dealing with the problem. See the only reason why every mod and admin say it's okay because by outpost rules they are. However that will change with a powerful enough uproar to cause consternation in their adamant rules and 'just following orders' though I doubt that this will happen. If it does they will put light limitations with a good enough penalty that it's just stupid and not worth the trouble

Speaking of this it seems like we get a lot of people overvaluing their hats. I get offers of 1bud hats on a hats I own that are 3-5buds (not the actual price range of a hat but the range of multiple hats).
Last edited by PurrrrC; 30 Jan, 2013 @ 3:32pm
#14
Vincent Van Goku 30 Jan, 2013 @ 4:05pm 
Well, being one of those QOT traders, I feel as though QOT are alright to a point. Asking for 50% off is ludicrous, but as Champelliot said, 33% off and maybe, MAYBE a little more is acceptable. I think that if you're one of the traders who decides that 50% off is fair for quicksell, I think that you should get a ban or warning or something that it really is sharking.

Do I think all QOT should be banned? Absolutely not. There will always be someone out there that doesn't mind cutting down a buyout simply to sell for pure because they're either sick of the hat or just need the pure.

Do I think people who want 50%+ off unusuals should have trades closed and warned that this is some mild form of sharking? Yes, completely.
#15
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Date Posted: 29 Jan, 2013 @ 9:29pm
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