no it bugs me more when they are just selling items and they never grey out the itemt hey are out of stock of..because they are too lazy to remake the trade...

they won't because its the incentive to donate ...obvious

Originally posted by F | CHARLIE:

Ultimately, it would be best if valve created a metal unit higher than the ref. Several actually. Something worth 3 ref, 8 ref, 14 ref.

While it would be useful as a matter of saving bp slots(so it will never happen), it wouldn't change a thing. The only real change that would save metal from inflation is no more drops, metal becomes a pay item from the store...the link to money would then be real, as with keys....

But we all know the screaming would never end. So valve keeps metal dropping to serve two groups of customers at once, pay to play and non paying customers. All the cheap cosmetics are affordable as they ever were to the cheap people, and thats fine, its a good way to serve two groups at once. It only becomes a problem when people don't realize whats going on and complain about the situation.

This question of alternative currency is just bogus. The market has spoken, and so has logic. People value keys more because they are linked to money, not free.

You own 10 accounts so yes your farm is growing less effective over time, but thats just something you will have to live with. Complaining about your free money generating scheme getting punked by the dollar isn't going to get you anywhere.

Originally posted by Zemnmez:

So, what do you suggest?

The only solution to these kind of problems is to ensure that voting is not worth their while, for example they must spend 12 hours idling on a program that generates a token for them to use to vote, somewhat like bCrypt, or bitcoin or Teamspeak's identity security system. The problem is that such a thing would take a lot of time away from the user.

Nope entire proof issue is flawed to begin wth. but not in the way he imagines, generally there are more buyers than sellers with time to vote, so if anything...tf prices are the low ball mark for prices.

Issue with proof is mainly this, there is no proof things actually changed hands at X price, yo udon't know what goes on behind closed doors as they say, any bargaining is just invisible, if the seller had multiples it can go unnoticed if buyers don't post in the thread, and much of the time for higher priced items, they don't post on outpost, they just add and pay.

Anyways ops complaint is a but questionable by default, in another thread he was arguing against my post....he was just disagreeing with the basic facts of the world I guess. He won't acknowledge that metal is a communist type distribution system which disregards real work or merit. Why he thinks this would compete against a dollar linked currency like keys I don't know....

Originally posted by F | CHARLIE:

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

again no, its been explained time and time again. key price is not high, its bound to the dollar. ask yourself what metal is bound to, free. what market mechanism is metal distribution tied to....nothing really, you don't get paid more metal because you are awesome ...its just a hand out, so why would it compete against osmething tied to cash. the market isn't oblivious, people who don't understand that communist distribution system of metal can't compete with cash ...thats the problem.

There is so much of your analogy that does not work. Under no circumstances can u compare tf2 trading market to real world market. There is no capitalist or communist concept that can fully be applied here.

There is really only the trading market. Why does someone buy a key or hat in secondary market? To be used in game or in trading/crate opening, which itself results in something that effects trading market. Some players do use cash to acquire things, some can't or won't. This can create segments with in the market and have strange effects. All of these things create situations that standard market principles can not measure or understand so all of you econ majors be a lot more careful about how you apply what you learn.

Please don't bring in ideological concepts that you don't comprehend. Especially to slam people.

Also, the established reasons for key price rise are not determined and it can be too high because of fraudulent proof and other reasons.

'

My analogy works perfectly.


I'm not sure why you are not understanding this.

How is metal distributed, tell me or just think about it for a moment. Just a moment..... what market based principles is metal distribution based on?

I'll just give you the answer, its none at all, no merit no market, just a hand out. Its the worst case scario "communist" type distribution, you get paid just for showing up, and paid the same regardless.


Keys are linked to money which is based on a market based distribution system, merit/market forces control your access to money.

"Standard market principles" would perfectly predict this drop in metal value. Or just common sense really, theres no abitrary reason why market principles wouldn't apply to this.

The analogy works perfectly, "free" is smashing up against money, and is losing. Only those who feel their free handouts should remain worth something based on wishful thinking would disagree with this to be frank.

oh ok, i just consider it defacing my post, the guy wanted full tf price and i hid his post, and he came back to complain as if i were obligated to buy it from him, really annoying behavior.

well what does it matter to you, unless you are needing to sell it fast, and can't find a buyer, in that case, they are correct, you are the one in a bind...

its just you. if you have to sell fast you can expect to get less.

Just wondering

Originally posted by F | CHARLIE:

The reason I placed this was to ask why is a key valuable if opening a crate is useless. When the trade price for key was lower the items in the crate could hold some value but not anymore. The best items out of these crates would only have a natural value in the several ref range. Whats the point? Why open?

because you can get an unusual

some are 10+ buds, a bud is 27 keys, so thats the potential long long long shot payoff.

crates are a casino, the one armed bandit of gaben

maybe you pay 1 key and get a rec back, maybe you pay 1 key and get 270..

i do have some #1 crates, that have white and black paints in them, so not all crates are equal.