This issue does effect trading in outpost as it ties up keys and ref. It also creates a lot of ill will amongst traders. My best trading day, recently, was the day the new crates were released. I can only assume it was because ref and keys more freely moved through out the trading market instead of being held up.

The 30 trade guys do it anyway when they auto bump.

Happening here too. Is anyone getting any customer hits?

In the latest price votes I have posted an example of a fraudulent proof of key sales that would suggest that the price could go higher.

Here it is again:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350515

I own both of these accounts, actually own 10 accounts, and I could do this multiple times to offer as proof of price increase. It would be stupid to do for any other trade item but the key is a no-brainer.

This is an example of how tf2 trading can't be compared to normal market principles. I also stated that key resellers could be buying from each other, on speculation, which acts like a proof transaction but really isn't.

There are now 510,000 keys in tf2 which is more than when crate 56 & 57 were released. That doesn't really make sense because people are un-crating (inexplicably).

One thing is true tho, this key issue is choking the trading system. We must get this under control.

MUST HAVE NOW.

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

Originally posted by Immortal:

Regardless the key price is artificially high due to market forces such as backpack.tf's continually voting the prices up and only using the highball prices of outpost, hat crafters are currently very happy with the situation as it's much more profitable selling craft numbers for keys rather than metal for keys, something the market seems pretty obliviouse to at the moment.

again no, its been explained time and time again. key price is not high, its bound to the dollar. ask yourself what metal is bound to, free. what market mechanism is metal distribution tied to....nothing really, you don't get paid more metal because you are awesome ...its just a hand out, so why would it compete against osmething tied to cash. the market isn't oblivious, people who don't understand that communist distribution system of metal can't compete with cash ...thats the problem.

There is so much of your analogy that does not work. Under no circumstances can u compare tf2 trading market to real world market. There is no capitalist or communist concept that can fully be applied here.

There is really only the trading market. Why does someone buy a key or hat in secondary market? To be used in game or in trading/crate opening, which itself results in something that effects trading market. Some players do use cash to acquire things, some can't or won't. This can create segments with in the market and have strange effects. All of these things create situations that standard market principles can not measure or understand so all of you econ majors be a lot more careful about how you apply what you learn.

Please don't bring in ideological concepts that you don't comprehend. Especially to slam people.

Also, the established reasons for key price rise are not determined and it can be too high because of fraudulent proof and other reasons.

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

Originally posted by F | CHARLIE:

The reason I placed this was to ask why is a key valuable if opening a crate is useless. When the trade price for key was lower the items in the crate could hold some value but not anymore. The best items out of these crates would only have a natural value in the several ref range. Whats the point? Why open?

because you can get an unusual

some are 10+ buds, a bud is 27 keys, so thats the potential long long long shot payoff.

crates are a casino, the one armed bandit of gaben

maybe you pay 1 key and get a rec back, maybe you pay 1 key and get 270..

i do have some #1 crates, that have white and black paints in them, so not all crates are equal.

You can get an usual from any crate. Crate 19, 1, 21, 14, 13, 28 ,31, 4, 2, 3, 9 and about 14 other crates are trading at higher price than 56 & 57. All of those are more worth while opening and will still yield contemporary unusuals.

Originally posted by Laharl:

Beggar's bazooka, neon annihilator, flying guillotine? i'd hardly say they were a flop.

If you can't make your key back its a flop. We were less than 4 days into the crate release and the main items in them all grossed below a key. I like each of these items but none will get you the key back right now.

The reason I placed this was to ask why is a key valuable if opening a crate is useless. When the trade price for key was lower the items in the crate could hold some value but not anymore. The best items out of these crates would only have a natural value in the several ref range. Whats the point? Why open?

Originally posted by MA☝Omgwtfbbqstfu™:

Originally posted by F | CHARLIE:

Irrational statement about the world revolving around the key.

The world revolves around money, keys are linked to money, metal is linked to nothing at all other than playing the game, if that. So if that's irrational.....

Playing the game is what matters. The game does not revolve around money or keys but all this mess with the keys and bad trading is turning away a lot of players. At some point all that will be left is fifty guys with thousands of keys each just trying to scam each other.

If people can't really enjoy all the facets of the game, why play. Remember, at the heart of game play is the desire to access all aspects of the game. At the end, who even gives a damn about an unusual. I've seen a lot of these kinds of things have value and one day nobody gives a shit. We play games to escape statements like "the world revolves around money".

Also, I will remind all of you that the bulk of trading is still done in the mid to low levels.