It's Nerf or nothin' XD

would be neat if the covert actions counted towards their "promotions"

Would be nice if the psi units could get training school perks too, ya know with mission ap, felt like they got left out seeing as everyone got combat intelligence except them

Thanks

I dont mind!

Do you mind if I merge your balance code into a new class mod? I would of course credit you.

Any idea how this interacts with mods that update enemies, like A Better Advent? I don't expect the PSI stuff to cause trouble, but I'm not sure how the "Gatekeeper being immune" is implemented, if it's an update on the ability side or the enemy side.

So, if I'm reading this right, there are ini lines in this mod that can be "activated" to enable the nerfs the vanilla version had.
Because I prefer my stasis to be turn ending :)

I’ve heard that the psi lab doesn’t like having more trainable skills than the number of skills available in Vanilla Xcom. Is there any way this mod can fix this?

Is it possible to increase he number of abilities that the psi lab offers you at each level up. I currently use the psi rookies mod cuz i like the psi ops having to start from the ground up like other soldiers. But when i used this mod before WOC came out the psi lab would still randomly select 3 ablities and they could be anywhere in the tree. If this is possible to fix I would so use this mod instead.

That's too bad, man. This mod is beautiful. Good luck in your current projects.

@baguda I'm currently not modding for xcom (maybe after the coming dlc is released)

Hello. I really like this mod. It's very elegant considering how complicated it is.

What are your thoughts on adding AP to the psi operative class?

Is it possible to give Psi Operatives the same screen when selecting abilities as other classes? If they are nerfed a bit and/or cost ability points as well as time, can the Psi Op go back and purchase other abilities after they have ranked up?

I like what Talcuaranda is saying. High reward rightly should go hand in hand with high risk. But I wonder if feedback damage (short of enough near-one-hit kill on late game soldiers) is enough. I'm thinking mayte if you fail to dominate a Gatekeeper or similarly powerful psionic being, your PsiOp gets hit with some nasty counterattack, like panic or even mind-controlled for a few turns (would have to negate the PsiOps own Solace defense somehow; in-universe excuse is easy - the PsiOp exposed him/herself by the Domination attempt - but don't know how hard this would be to implement properly). Or maybe even if you succeed, you can only hold such a powerful mind for a few turns, then it breaks free.

And I thought the purpose here was not "nerf psiops so people train them earlier", but "force psiops to go on missions like everyone else to advance, instead of just spending 3 1/2 months in a tank and emerging fully-formed archwizards".

Off cource. Sad but i understand.

@Jorkie because its a ton of work and I have no time

I miss mass mind merge on Annette Durand as a Veteran Xcom 1 Hero sooo much ... Why not MPOGA for WotC ?

However thx for your work !

I don't mean to take sides between LeaderEnemyBoss and Khan, but their discussion really got me thinking... Dominating a Gatekeeper is *tempting.* Perhaps that could be built upon, with a really nasty feedback effect damaging the PsiOP on a failed attempt... and either effectively or actually wasting the Dominate charge for the duraton of the mission. Like the gene mod in X: EW.

Tempting commanders with risky moves is part of XCOM 2 design--think of loot, hacking, and sword attacks. So increasing the risk even further might actually enhance this frustrating but compelling part of the game.

That said, if you want to nerf psi operatives so commanders are encouraged to start psionic training earlier (although you can build it as soon as you research Sectiod Autopsy > Psionics),
I think it's best to err on the side of excess, otherwise the mod might be a waste of everyone's time and space.

Not sayng you should remove that feature from the mod, just advancing some alternatives and arguments why mind controlling Gatekeepsrs is not necessarily unreasonable in-universe for high-level PsiOps. Again, sorry about the double post, but character limit and no edit function.

Since dominate is the only reliable mind control ability for the player (XCOM1 temporary mind control is now enemy-only, and Insanity is unreliable for mind control even when it "works"), another option might be that it does work, with good chance of success, on "strong psionic units", but only lasts for a few turns, and that counts as your one successful use per mission. Think of XCOM 1 where player mind control was allowed on Sectoid Commanders and Ethereals, but not permanently, or old X-COM, where mind control lasted for 1 turn but worked on anything flesh and blood. And do keep in mind that the Elders are interested in humans precisely because we have, in principle, psi ability rivaling their own.

No PsiOps, cant use AP with this mod (I dont really have time for large overhauls). As for the gatekeeper: I dont think its arbitrary to assume a strong psionic unit can resist domination alltogether (Avatars and Bosses can aswell). There are still more than enough worthwhile domination targets (and as I said, you can deactivate the nerf). In general I think the lategame ability design of XCom 2 has a lot of issues and is more or less designed for players that want a prolonged "victory lap" during the lategame instead of a sermblance of challenge. But fixing this would require a large overhaul like LW2 and I'm not up for such a task.

I apologize about the repated posting, but the character limit on comments can be constraining. Anyway, I am not opposed to keeping it as an option (I am always in favor of more options), but I don't think just saying "you can't do that" is the best solution. Of course, properly fixing the underlying balance issues would probably take a whole separate mod.

On another topic, does this allow PsiOps to take TC/AWC Perks? I have hard all the Psi powers have a default cost of 0 AP, which would have to be dealt with, but maybe that could be done by setting them all to something like 99 AP (to keep Psi powers learned in the tank and the TC only for XCOM perks), or setting them to reasonable values (25 AP for Dominate, Null Lance, and Rift, standard by rank for the rest) otherwise, particularly if restricting the tank to one power per level.

In any case, in seems like the real problem is just that the Gatekeeper is just poorly balanced and the aliens have no adequate counter, which me wonder how well it is balanced in multiplayer if both sides use Alien units. Late game enemy forces should be able to offer some challenge to a dominated Gatekeeper (unless you''ve already killed most of the other enemies), and if they can't there are more serious issues. In old X-Com and TFTD, and UFO:ET and Xenonauts, you could bring heavy combat units with similar toughness and power, and they weren't a balance issue (except maybe the end-game ones with waypoint-guided missiles, because waypoint-guided missiles).

I understand your position, though I would argue that, asuming you don't savescum (admittedly a big assumption), and given that failed Dominate attempt ends (and effectively wastes) the caster's turn and, I believe (this might be from a mod I'm using), have a lengthy cooldown before you can try again, 80% or 10% makes a very big difference.

Also, I find it very annoying when your more interesting / spectacular abilities just magically don't work on the enemies most worth using them on (literally wining entire battles in one turn, like instant-kill or HP to 1 on true bosses, is too far, but just about anything short of that should be allowed). Conversely, that means Solace should be toned down, or made an active ability with a limited duration and cooldown instead of always on. Also, I really like using Gatekeepers as wrecking balls.

Look, I just dont like the mechanic of overtaking very strong enemies and trivializing missions. Doesnt matter if it 80% or 10% of the time. However you can edit the gatekeepers will stat yourself.

A better solution would be to significantly increase the Gatekeeper's psi resistance, so it is extremely hard to dominate, but still occasionally possible.

@khan it doesnt matter if you use gate, its hp alone is enough to make the mission a freewin. Managing strong enemies (and them sometimes being able to use their abilities) is what should actually happen. That the endgame consists of disabling/killing/dominating everything is what makes it so stale and easy. But the feature is already optional (you can deactivate it in the mods ini).

It /is/ optional.

You might want to change "Gatekeepers immune to Domination" to optional, or change it to "Gatekeepers can't use Gate while dominated" or "Gatekeepers immediately die, without exploding, when dominated". There are several times I have dominated a Gatekeeper simply to neutralize it without making it go boom / having enough firepower to kill it in one turn / use it as a distraction / other reasons, and not to abuse Gate.

Oh man I've been waiting for this to hit WOTC for so long.

Finally! I can finally start my playthrough!

Skarsatai might be referring to the ability to train soldiers other than rookies as psi ops. Personally I prefer the balance of this mod, but it is a little silly you need rookies (not a criticism on this mod, it's a criticism of base psi units needing to be fresh recruits)

@dirty melody their is an older version for vanilla aswell, see here: https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=672100679&searchtext=

i don't even have WOTC yet but i'm favouriting this for when i do just bc of the picture (and also the idea of getting to know my soilders, never realised that)

@Skarsatai: If they were compatible what would you expect the combined effect to be? It may already be possible with config options.

No it doesnt work with that mod, and why should it. That mod completely removes PsiOps my mod changes their training methods slightly, both mods have totally conflicting design goals.

does it work with Kyuubicle
[WoTC] XCOM Psi Overhaul [NEW UPLOAD] ? or can you implement this "xcom1"feature " psi gifted soldiers ?

I also loved using this mod. I've been running this class mod https://steamhost.cn/steamcommunity_com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1253020874&searchtext=
Has anyone tried this mod with this to see if there is any conflicts?

I remember this mod! One of my favourites in old XCOM 2. Glad to see it back.

@LeaderEnemyBoss thanks!

@Your Mother yes its save to add or remove any time

As a suggestion to implement, I am not sure if it is possible at all:
There is another issue with psi class in wotc is that they dont use AP point system. Which means any other combat intelligence except the lowest is wasted on them.
Maybe it is possible to make it that they can only level up to magister and all other abilities need to be bought with AP they earn (maybe even add random perks in the third column, like all other classes have).

this is safe to add in the middle of a game right? i only just started training my first psi operative, so hee's already in the works.

It's still close enough ;P

this is NOT MPGA, please read the description :p

OH YES! MPOGA was one of my most favorite mods for LW2.