@可砸 Thanks a lot for your very insightful comments! I believe that I agree with you in large parts. I'm happy to hear that you enjoyed the puzzle / map as well

Fun map,also true puzzle,I wouldn't say it's a brand new thing for me,but also took me some while to realize what I should do.I didn't expect that I need to jump around like a monkey in the second one. .The first one required more calculation, but I spent the most time on the second one because it was somewhat unexpected.Anyway,I prefer ramblings more :p

(3/3)A good idea, whether in a map or a puzzle, should have its significance. And it's undeniable that as our aesthetic standards improve, some "puzzles" do gradually transform into "maps". So sometimes, we instinctively avoid "maps", not because they are fake,but our standards have become higher. Our goal is clearer: "true puzzles", which will bring a sense of satisfaction and pleasure.

Lastly, I hope every author can be more critical of their puzzles, not in terms of execution but in terms of logical arrangement.

(2/3)Just as experience can help you solve puzzles, it doesn't necessarily make you a good author. I think what matters more is initiative. You need to deeply feel a puzzle rather than merely solve it (if you want to discover more about its design details). Therefore, good authors can create "true" puzzles or "true" maps that resonate with other players.

I think the reason for distinguishing between these two terms is that the workshop is overloaded with "maps", giving the word "map" a somewhat derogatory connotation. Many works in the workshop share common flaws, such as overly vague themes, cumbersome processes, and the abuse of props, and so on,which tarnish the image of "maps".

(1/3)On the surface, it seems like a process of transferring an idea from your mind to mine, which is why I solve the puzzle. This process may be accelerated due to experience, so all the credit should go to the author.

But if we leave this notion,is there a possibility that this idea might already exist in our subconscious? Some people can discover it independently, while others need guidance, and the author happens to play this guiding role.

In my view, puzzles and maps do have differences, but the fate of a puzzle or a map should not be solely determined by a simple evaluation of good or bad. I believe that puzzles represent a novel form, embedding ideas within common expressions to enhance players' initiative. In contrast, maps may prioritize completeness, shaping players' logic in a more straightforward manner.

Fizzler puzzles are the most annoying in portal, IMO. Still, I had some enjoyment.

I finally got it it took me a little bit of time nice

@Mr Fab Wow! It took me a month to get around to watching your video but I finally did it! It was very enjoyable. Indeed, the white surface spamming in the second room is questionable design. I'm glad you enjoyed the map overall though

Nice puzzle ! There's a lot of white surface in this map which makes the map a lot harder. I also enjoyed the final moves for the second room, it's clever
My blind playthrough: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXEYcV_y9dY

@Riishuu Thanks a lot for playing... and for reading! :P I'm happy to hear that you are enjoying playing my maps. For some tips on puzzlemaking, you could maybe check out Demon Arisen's short series of youtube videos, or Fumbly Bumbly's guide here on steam, if you haven't already. Be sure to let me know when your map is completed :]

I really appreciated reading your essay. I've been struggling to realize an interesting puzzle idea I got because I'm just no good at making them but it has been exciting working on something I haven't seen in any other puzzle yet. I've kinda been looking around the internet for any info on specifically how to build a "true puzzle" but that's been really hard to come by. I'll keep on trying to nail down a good process for it but in the meantime, I've been really enjoying playing all of your maps! I do really appreciate the amount of care you put into them.

nice

@Teo Thank you :] The first room indeed isn't half bad, the second is easily solved after realising the idea. Glad you enjoyed once more

I enjoyed the first room quite a lot; cool set of puzzles. It's interesting seeing how 2 similar layouts can result in such different solutions

@Spider_Dawg Excellent work! That is indeed the solution that I had in mind. I'm glad it was ultimately satisfying to find the ''nice'' solution for the second puzzle :]

Well I just figured out a solution that doesn't require portaling the laser from the ceiling and is a much easier solution to execute. I don't recall whether any of the videos posted demonstrate a ceiling-to-floor and then vise/versa in each of the 3 rooms, rotating the cube as needed method. It's much easier since it doesn't matter where the portals are placed . Thanks @Mikeastro for the hint, it was satisfying to go back and solve finish it properly

@Mikeastro well maybe I'll give it another try then. I thought the first part was fairly easy, although a bit annoying when having to start over, but at least these are small rooms and starting over isn't that big of a deal. On the second part I "gave up" and carried the cube while aiming it at the catcher just to get to the exit, knowing full well that it was cheating.

@Spider_Dawg Lol yeah many people got annoyed about that being so tricky to set up. Little did they know that there's actually a solution without every having to do that :p

A short video of me failing at Eight (which can be watched at any time):
https://youtu.be/11jGsr3cmMI

@kimist108 Nicely done! It makes me happy that you continue to enjoy my puzzles

Woo Hoo! Finally made it to the first page. Thumbs up for your work.

@Requiemsoul Haha thank you :D Maybe I should reconsider the difficulty rating

A lot of fun and clever map, sorry, puzzle :)). The first room was harder than the second one.
Difficulty: 6/10 for experienced players. Keep up the superb work.

@Afro Melon npnpnp I didn't even know you left comments at all so it just came so unexpected I thought it was kinda funny

Sorry, I intended to do timestamps after the streams ended but only got around to it today.

@Afro Melon I love that you decided to leave these links here more than two months after the stream :p Thanks again for playing a couple of my maps. I really enjoyed watching your runs :]

Played on stream:
https://youtu.be/xupMmot9lU0?t=22m34s

Tricky map. Pretty hard to see what you need to do at times, but ultimately very clever :)

Blind Run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSoYdJKkWN4

@bullfrog Thanks for playing! Yeah my last few maps have indeed been quite tricky, but I hope you'll still enjoy them :]

Two great puzzles which took me a while to crack; especially the second one. Your last three puzzles (The Machine Room, this and Talos(iii) which I haven't completed yet!) I've really struggled with, so I can see where @asears16's coming from - this is not a complaint, just a statement :P

@asears16 I'm sorry you did not really like this map. For what it's worth, I did enjoy watching your blind run :]
And there's no shame in finding the maps you mentioned tough - Talos (iii) is indeed much trickier than it first looks and The Machine Room is plain challenging, because you have to learn what the thing does and apply it optimally immediately to progress
@Nobody No-One Sure, there are different levels of inaccessibility, and of course I'm not opposed to such hard maps being made or played. It's just not my cup of tea. I feel like every new player should actually try the ''Introduction to the workshop'' collection to see if solving puzzles is really something they enjoy and if so, to learn most basic tricks mapmakers tend to implement. Just jumping into ''real'' puzzles coming from only frontpage stuff is quite the leap for most people

Both of the puzzles in this map were a struggle for me to figure out, and I ended up feeling more frustration than enjoyment out of the experience. Nothing against the map itself, though...the puzzles were quite clever. I can't ever seem to get better at laser redirection puzzles, and I don't know why.

I feel like lately I've been struggling a lot in your map, Mikeastro; my upcoming playthrough of Talos(iii) took quite a bit of time, and I have yet to finish The Machine Room. You are good at making very challenging maps, that's for sure!

My blind run of this map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plTKbFZltmg

I will say I think that maps like your maps or quaternary's maps or PS:Mel's maps are definitely more accessible than those of, say, camerson1313 or Narkodes. Those are really hard maps for a very niche group of people. But I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. If they enjoy making and playing those maps, why not? At the same time, I do agree that there's an unfortunately large gap between "easy bad maps" like you see on the front page and "challenging good maps", and not too much in between (Fumbly Bumbly's maps are a notable exception).

Also the idea of "everyone is just making maps for each other" feels familiar; like a profession that needs teachers for the sole purpose of educating future teachers in that very profession. Making maps including moves you know people tend to like in general so you know it will be well-received, albeit completely uninspired, it happens a lot. Maybe I'm being too negative now.
Lastly, I haven't played Mel yet (I know that's not okay, I'll get to it some day :P) but I understand what you're getting at. There's just this fairly small group of players making maps not really suitable for anyone but themselves. In the end there's nothing wrong with that, of course, but a con to it would be, as you said, it creates a gap which can result in how Mel was received, for example

@quaternary I'm glad you liked the map :) Indeed you are right about the second room, but I did not really know either what else to add while keeping the simplistic setup. And yeah that feeling you describe in 2/2 sounds very familiar; you kinda just do what feels most natural or what seems right, and then suddenly you're done, thinking "I guess they wanted me to do this".

3/2 because i thought of something else to say lol (read the other two first)

And you know, sometimes I feel like everyone is just making maps for each other. Or at least I feel like that. Like, "here's the part of the solution where you do a cube respawn, because we like cube respawns and they're an interesting move".

It's a bit like when the reaction to Portal Stories: Mel was "these puzzles are ok, but I don't like them because there's so many fizzlers!!!". To someone well-versed in the custom map scene, a map with eight fizzlers in it is just a regular map. But to a new player that's ridiculously daunting and confusing. Noone realized that while testing the mod because most testers were from the existing Portal 2 community. It's like we just made a mod for ourselves.

1/2

The fizzler delay is such a weird problem, I've never heard of anything like it before. But I kind of like the way it feels in the puzzle lol.

Anyway these are 2 very nice puzzles. The 2nd one took me a really long time to figure out, even though it's so easy, and when i figured it out I felt really stupid... In the best possible way. Lol

I feel like something more could be done with the 2nd room that also takes advantage of more laser/lasercube properties, but of course I can't think of anything. You know, so the solution has more steps than "bring the cube to the button room, then gradually rotate it clockwise".

2/2

Your thoughts on what makes a good puzzle resonate a lot with me. I've started mapping easier maps lately, because my hard ones usually felt more a maze than a good puzzle with a key moment to discover. Do you know that feeling, getting through a map "by feel" and just idly trying stuff until you can exit, instead of having a specific solution in mind?

This is a cool puzzle in the setting of 4 rooms .. The most logical and reasonably complex)

@jandlml Thank you very much for your kind words - I'm glad you enjoyed this map. Like @Leomievs said, it's players like you that remind us that it will all be worthwhile, even when the map doesn't seem to want to work our way :) I wish everyone a very happy new year as well - let's see what ideas it has in store for us :D

Jandlml, thank you too for your support and for playing our puzzles, you're the kind of players that help us stay motivated! To all mapmakers and players and the Portal 2 community as a whole: happy new year slightly in advance! (this comment section is turning into a greetings card lol)

most excellent puzzle! took much thought ,fun to execute. i thought your essay was most telling and very much what i have heard from many other really good mappers\puzzle makers. that is why i dont make maps. i tried and it it is just way to difficult to come up with new puzzles. i envy all of you mappers who come up with this amazing puzzles for the rest of us to solve. i know the process can be very frustrating, i have playtested for several of you out there and have seen first hand the frustration when the puzzle just isnt working the way you would like. i just want to say to all of you mappers who put so many hours into this game for the rest of us to play. THANK YOU SO MUCH. where would i be without you. i do so love this game and its because of you all. i havent played anything but workshop maps in years. so i hope you all keep cranking the maps\puzzles out. i will be hear waiting for them HAPPY NEW YEAR TO EVERYONE!!!!!

@Joric To counter my description, as concise a comment as possible - I like that. Thanks :)

Good!

@Nobody No-One Glad you liked it :) And yeah the ending there is a bit tricky to spot. You'll see it though!
@Leomievs Excellent blind run! I agree that sometimes some logic flow and a new idea work nicely together, but to me that depends on the extent of the novelity. Both your solutions were completely valid :D

Cool puzzling "map" :P although I don't use the same words as you to describe it, I understand how you differentiate "puzzles" from "maps". In my opinion, the best test chambers are somewhere in the middle, when there's some challenging logical flow AND somewhat of a novel "trick" or at least a concept. But I enjoy both types anyway. By the way, I recorded my blindrun, I didn't check with Nobody's solution but I hope I solved it as intended.

Longest description ever :O

I did enjoy the map. The second room took me a while. Thumbs up.

I still need to solve The Machine Room. I've retrieved all the cubes but I'm still working on the final sequence. No hints though :P

@sominc Haha oh well, only if you want to of course :)
@Nobody No-One Excellent work once more! Your solutions are intended, though actually the second once could be even a little bit shorter! Also, please use your idea-stealing powers with care :P I'm not really sure what the deal is with the delay of the fizzlers, but I couldn't find any meaningful way to actually use it. I hope you liked this 'map' in the end

I like the essay in the description. I have no problem with long descriptions (since I don't have to read them out loud at the start of a video like, for instance, nock). According to the penultimate line of the essay, I now have permission to take ideas from people. :P

Anyway, here's my solution to the map. For some reason the video's framerate is especially low so hopefully you can bear to watch it. I'm fairly confident that my solution to the first room was intended but I'm not so sure about the second room. I found two very similar solutions, only one of which is in the video.

I will also point out a very small exploit. The fizzlers seem to have a slight delay in turning off/on. Thus, in the areas with the recessed ground, you can hold the cube to reflect the laser into a catcher, drop it, and then quickly shoot a portal through the fizzler before it turns back on. I didn't test to see if that was actually helpful, but it's possible.